What speakers for Epi Valve Jr head

[steelman]

I just bought a Valve Jr head, and I am building a speaker cab. I am currently running it through a pair of Eminence Red Coats rated at 75 watts. Should I get something more rated to the 5 watt range? BTW, this little amp sounds pretty good, even with the big 12" 75 w speakers.

[steelman]

to either the Eminence 12" Cannabis Rex rated at 50 watts or the Celestion 12" Greenback rated at 25 watts. What do you think?

[steve]

I just bought a Valve Jr head, and I am building a speaker cab. I am currently running it through a pair of Eminence Red Coats rated at 75 watts. Should I get something more rated to the 5 watt range? BTW, this little amp sounds pretty good, even with the big 12" 75 w speakers.

The 75w rating is the maximum power that the amp can put through the speaker and not blow it.

You can put 5w into a 75w speaker with no ill effects. What you are looking for is the sensitivity of the speaker. This is expressed in dB/watt/meter.

The Cannibis Rex is rated at 102; the Greenback is rated at 98. So for the Cannibis Rex, if you put one watt of power into the speaker and measure the output at 1 meter, the sound pressure level (SPL) is 102 deciBels. Or 98dB for the Greenback.

The higher rated speaker theoretically will produce more power, but you may not be able to tell a difference.

HTH,

steve

[steelman]

So you are saying, the smaller wattage handling speakers are no better for my 5 watt amp than the 75 watt Red Coats. Do I understand this right? As long as I happy with the sound, everything is OK as is? Then I don't need to buy other speakers, that'll make the other half happy.

[SysCrusher]

In my opinion, get a smaller wattage speaker for that little amp. Takes alot of power to push a cone in a 75 watter versus a 25 watter and that junior will barely move that cone in a that 75 watt speaker. If the amp can't move the speaker well the SPL isn't going to matter at all. When an amp pushes the cone more, it sounds fuller/smooth compared to a speaker which is barely moving and sounds thin or tiny. A single 25watt green back would be perfect for the little junior. I got an old worn out original C12N from an early Kustom that sounds great with my junior. The cone is so worn out and loose that a 50 watt amp bottoms the speaker out but sounds really good with the junior. The junior can push the cone just right.

[TD_Madden]

Get one of Weber's Signature-12s.

[RickyD]

Hey, Steelman-

If you like the way it sounds, there is no need to change to a different speaker.

If you decide to buy a speaker, you do not need a speaker with a high power rating. I have a 5E3 with a Weber Signature 12 that I like alot, and yhat freed up some $ to spend on other stuff.

[blodviol]

I played my marshall 2W battery-powered amp through an old 15W Jensen P15R (no cab) and was amazed at how great it sounded.

It wasn't very loud, though. Driving a higher rated speaker can definately sound good at times. Actually, I'd suggest that you try a P15R or the weber equivalent. really nice speakers, and still three times the power rating of your amp... you can get originals fairly cheap on ebay, as they are rated too low for even a tweed Pro (which uses a P15N)

Tríste

[hasserl]

In my opinion, get a smaller wattage speaker for that little amp. Takes alot of power to push a cone in a 75 watter versus a 25 watter and that junior will barely move that cone in a that 75 watt speaker. If the amp can't move the speaker well the SPL isn't going to matter at all. When an amp pushes the cone more, it sounds fuller/smooth compared to a speaker which is barely moving and sounds thin or tiny. A single 25watt green back would be perfect for the little junior. I got an old worn out original C12N from an early Kustom that sounds great with my junior. The cone is so worn out and loose that a 50 watt amp bottoms the speaker out but sounds really good with the junior. The junior can push the cone just right.

This is not right. The power rating is a rating of the amount of power the speaker can handle; it is not a measurement of how the speaker will respond to an input signal. Steve explained it very well, go back and read his answer again for a better understanding. For a given input signal a lower powered speaker isn't being pushed farther than a higher powered speaker. That is a result of the sensitivity of the speaker, not the power handling.

You may be referring to the breakup characteristic of a speaker, and that a speaker that breaks up quickly may be driven to breakup easier with a low power amp than one that remains clear with little breakup. That may well be true, but that is a different matter. Power handling and breakup characteristics are not the same thing.

Back to the original question, you don't have to get something closer to the 5 watt range, get something with the tonal characteristics you want to match up with the amp. If a big clean EVM12L suits you fine, go for it. If a Greenback that breaks up easily suits you, that is fine too. IMO that amp does not need any breakup from the speaker, it will give you plenty of breakup all on it's own. I'd go with the big clean and efficient speaker. I have heard a guy play a Valve Jr head into a cab with a single EVM12L speaker, at a blues jam playing with two other guitarists (playing a MB Subway Blues and a vintage BF Deluxe Reverb), a sax, a harp, keyboard, bass & drums. He was playing an Epiphone Sheraton into the V Jr thru a TS9 pedal. He cut thru the mix with ease and had great tone.

[SysCrusher]

This is not right. The power rating is a rating of the amount of power the speaker can handle; it is not a measurement of how the speaker will respond to an input signal. Steve explained it very well, go back and read his answer again for a better understanding. For a given input signal a lower powered speaker isn't being pushed farther than a higher powered speaker. That is a result of the sensitivity of the speaker, not the power handling.

Yes he is right about the wattage. The input signal isn't what is to be concerned about, it's the output signal(voltage). I totally understand it.



You may be referring to the breakup characteristic of a speaker, and that a speaker that breaks up quickly may be driven to breakup easier with a low power amp than one that remains clear with little breakup. That may well be true, but that is a different matter. Power handling and breakup characteristics are not the same thing.



Breakup characteristics has nothing to do with it. A 75watt speaker can still break up pretty early. There is more than just than the gauge of wire used that will determine wattage. The cone, surround, magnet and the spider. Most high wattage speakers have a stiffer surround, spider and a bigger magnet. Stiffer speaker takes more power from the amp to move that speaker cone to really get a full sound.

But in the end, it is what sounds good to the buyer.

[hasserl]

A simple misunderstanding. When I wrote "input" I was referring to the input signal to the speaker, or the amps output. Again, it's the sensitivity of the speaker that relates to how well the speaker responds to the signal applied, not the wattage rating. Your point though is taken regarding the stiffer components used in higher wattage speakers. But like I said, I heard one of those amps thru a pretty stout speaker, and was very impressed with the results. That little sucker put out a lot of sound.

[RickyD]

Hasserl +1

[eyesonly]

I just bought a Valve Jr head, and I am building a speaker cab. I am currently running it through a pair of Eminence Red Coats rated at 75 watts. Should I get something more rated to the 5 watt range? BTW, this little amp sounds pretty good, even with the big 12" 75 w speakers.

Is the cab to be used exclusively with the valve junior or with other amps as well. If exclusively you could go with a single Celestion Blue which is 15 watts, or a Weber Blue Dog 15watt. It will be really responsive compared to using 75watt speakers.

I have a combo with a Weber Blue Pup 8 Ceramic in it which is also 15 watts and it sounds really good! :D

There is no need to have a lower wattage speaker though it would be better suited. I also run a 2X12 Celestion G12H30 cab. It sounds great through that also.

If you like the sound you are getting now you can just keep those speakers.

Modded Valve Junior (http://members.optusnet.com.au/eyes.only/vj_mods_3/vj.htm)

[blodviol]

The other day i tried an old tandberg tape recorder, which also is a great SE EL84 amp, through a 8x10 Ampeg bass cab. it sounded killer. very brutal... I played a concert on friday with it and hooked it up to an old magnatone 213 cab, which contains an old Utah, i believe. Made it sound very (pushed) marshally.

Tríste

[Steve A.]

I just bought a Valve Jr head, and I am building a speaker cab. I am currently running it through a pair of Eminence Red Coats rated at 75 watts. Should I get something more rated to the 5 watt range? BTW, this little amp sounds pretty good, even with the big 12" 75 w speakers.


FWIW Epiphone is selling a $129 cab for the Epi Jr head with an Eminence Lady Luck speaker in it- 16 ohms 75 watts. I wasn't crazy about that speaker and wanted something small that I could use with other heads so I put the Jensen C12K speaker from my Deluxe Reverb Reissue in it instead (which is a 100 watt 8 ohm speaker).

As for the other points in the discussion here, if the 5 watt amp is, say, overly bright it might not be a bad idea to couple it with a humungous 100 watt speaker that attenuates the highs...

As long as you don't go over the wattage ratings and keep the impedance mismatches to a medium, I think it all boils down to what you think works best in a particular setup. But it does help to ask if other people found a combination that they liked because it can give you a starting point...

Steve Ahola