Tensioning Units

[kevinT]

I’m looking to purchase a tensioning unit to go with my winder which is currently on order. There are a number of companies out there that appear to have some nice devices. Can anyone recommend one or have any experiences using any of the ones below? I’m going bonkers trying to choose one.


Auman
http://aumannusa.com/prod_drs.htm

Tanac
http://tanac.com/mt/mt.html

George Stevens
http://geostevens.com/products/TensionDevices.asp

Fisher Baker
http://fisherbaker.com/ten_dial.html

Machine Control Specialists
http://www.mcsinc.net/mcs_dereeler_options.html

Sarcem
http://www.sarcem.com/tension.html

Azonic
http://www.azonicproducts.com/30-350.htm

Adams Maxwell
http://www.adamsmaxwell.com/amweb/amtensioners.htm

[DoctorX]

refer to the 2nd part of the coil winder plans I posted recently. There are items in that article regarding building a tensioning device you may want to look at.

DoctorX

[DoctorX]

The 'wisker disk' from Azonics has been used alongside an in house designed tensioning device (which resembles that in part 2 of that article I mentioned) by DiMarzio for years.

[Possum]

The Azonic is a spring reading tensioner, meaning the grams of tension are ready by a needle that is spring loaded. You don't realize it but guitar pickups exert a very jerky pull on tensioners and most of them can't deal with it if they use springs gauges. I got one and the scale started bouncing and jerking like crazy until it broke the wire......every time. I stick with felt and thumbscrew, I think even Wolfe went back to this after having a Meteor tensioner that costs alot.....

[R Walker]

I have one of the MT's from Tanac. It works very well once you have it setup correctly. It was pricey but well worth the money I think. One of the things I was constantly fighting was the correct tension with felt/vice. Now I can pretty much dial in anything I want with ease. Also changing out the felt is a snap. I have had 2 wire breaks in 6months time with it and those were due to winding to fast with smaller guage wire 43, 44. 43g does not like 2300+rpms :)

[kevinT]

yep,

That is funny, i just spoke to tanac 5 minutes before your post. They quoted $700 for the MT20BC. The sales person, (who I could hardly understand ...heavy Japanese accent) said it would take 2 to 3 weeks and that it would be shipped from Japan.

Its a possibility.

[R Walker]

This is the one I have
Tension unit-- MT100, $ 610.00 each

Prices may have changed since I purchased mine last summer. Give Dave a call at Tanac he can answer all your questions.


David Eklund
Tanac Inc.
2184 W. 190th St.
Torrance, Ca.
Tel: 310-787-8854

[kevinT]

You don't realize it but guitar pickups exert a very jerky pull on tensioners and most of them can't deal with it if they use springs gauges. I got one and the scale started bouncing and jerking like crazy until it broke the wire......every time. .

I talked to Fisher Baker and described your scenerio. The unit they have comes with a set of springs with various tensions. She said that some of their customers switch the springs to find the tension that is just right.

Did the Azonic come with springs with different tensions or was there only one set standard?

She also said there are about 2 or 3 knobs (i can't remember) to adjust the tension at differnt points around the tension head. This may be a way to eliminate the jerking because the tension is dispersed throughout various points in the head. It just may be a design issue with the azonic.

For around $160 just for the head (A bit more $ for the whisker disk and stand) I may try it. She also stated that they have a 30 day return policy so if it doesn't work out for our particular application, we can get our money back.

http://fisherbaker.com/ten_dial.html

[Possum]

no, if you look at the Azonic you will see the needle that shows the grams on the scale is connected to a pulley on a piece of spring steel, you can't change it. I suppose you could just not use the pulley with the read out and it would work fine.

One thing you might seriously want to consider is that there is some mystery to using an old fashioned felt clamp versus something that gives you perfect even tension every time. Its my feeling that the more you "perfect" things, the more you are headed in the direction of making perfect copies of factory mass produced pickups :-) Like I mentioned before, Wolfe dumped his tensioner that cost way up there and went back to crude felt, at leas thats what I remember. Personally, I am sticking with my thumb screw/felt tensioner that has to be adjust during each wind. I don't want perfectly tensioned coils, and there is some real evidence in the literature I've read that this is detrimental to rich tone.....

[soundmasterg]

You could always get a nice tensioner like Wolfe had and then vary the tension during the wind to emulate the effect you're getting with the felt setup you use now Possum. Once you figure out what settings to use and when to switch during the wind, then it is a bit more repeatable and less random than what you're using now. Of course if you like futzing with the tension all the time, then have at it! :)

[kevinT]

One thing you might seriously want to consider is that there is some mystery to using an old fashioned felt clamp versus something that gives you perfect even tension every time. Its my feeling that the more you "perfect" things, the more you are headed in the direction of making perfect copies of factory mass produced pickups :-) Like I mentioned before, Wolfe dumped his tensioner that cost way up there and went back to crude felt, at leas thats what I remember. Personally, I am sticking with my thumb screw/felt tensioner that has to be adjust during each wind. I don't want perfectly tensioned coils, and there is some real evidence in the literature I've read that this is detrimental to rich tone.....

I hear what your saying Dave. And I agree with you 100 percent! The main reason I am considering a tensioning device is to maintain consistency and repeatability of a specific formula/design.

I believe you can get good results with a tensioner….it may entail a lot of experimentation. Believe me…if I can’t get good tone using one, I’ll be the first to toss it out the window.

I think it’s important to at least try the various tools available to the pickup maker to find out what works and what doesn’t.

That is just my take.

[kevinT]

as i was visiting tv Jones' site I came across an image. Guess what they're using for tensioning? .....looks like Azonics ;)

[David Schwab]

I notice they wind both coils simultaneously. That's an old Bill Lawrence trick. Forget about mis-matching coils!

[David King]

Hey thanks for posting these links, they've given me some cool ideas. I'm a little taken aback that none of these tensioning devices actually has a traverse function let alone a scatter wind built in for that price. I suppose that's more the function of the winder anyway.

[Possum]

Yeah those are Azonics:
http://azonicproducts.com/30-350.htm
He's doing something maybe I should have tried which is the tensioner is way far away from the wire guide, maybe that slack will offset the jerking on the spring gauge. On the other hand he may be bypassing the pulley with the spring steel attached. In the picture its the top pulley on the unit, bypassing it solves the jerking problem but then you don't get a readout of grams of tension, but an experienced winder doesn't need to read a scale to know what works. Its hard to read that scale anyway since the wire is jerking the pulley up and down so the needle bobs crazily at winding speed,, this is what breaks the wire...well it breaks the wire if you have it close to the wire guide like I did. I notice the price on the tensioners has gone up since I bought mine, I think I paid about half that 4 years ago. If you look close at his wire guide it almost looks like there is a clamp right where the wire goes to the coil, maybe this is a small felt clamp, this would damp the jerking effect too. I'm sticking with my 75 cent thumbscrew/felt combo, it just works...

[Ruel]

I got the most expensive tensioning device in the world. My thumb and forefinger. In fact, they're priceless.

[Possum]

yeah you can't beat that. If I used my own I'd be crippled after a few months with tendonitis and tennis elbow, real prone to that stuff....