All Parts stuff, any good? [Archive] - Music Electronics Forum

madialex

03-04-2007, 03:56 PM

Hi everyone, a question about all parts stuff. Are their P90 bobbins any better than before, I got some a while back and couldn't even use them. They had molding slag everywhere, 25 to 20 mins just cutting that extra plastic off then sanding, looks like crap. Then the pole pieces would not go in, they were so tight the screw heads would round off and had to use a pair of vise grips to remove them. Thats after using soap and anything else I could think of to lube the holes. Tried drilling but either I had the drill bit off kilter causing the screws to thread crooked or the hole was just too big.

Also what do their humbucker bobbins look like, are the cream ones that funny yellow pinkish color? Thanks for any comments on this.

J S Moore

03-04-2007, 04:01 PM

I didn't like their P-90 bobbins either but the ones from GJ aren't as stiff and tend to distort if your not careful. I ended up making a faceplate for either side and clamping them in.

I have not seen the humbucker bobbins personally but I have heard from Zhang that they are a nice cream colour.

madialex

03-04-2007, 05:11 PM

Thanks for the reply Jon.

Zhangliqun

03-05-2007, 09:53 PM

I think in general the Allparts stuff is good.

The GJ cream color is very good on humbucker bobbins and P90 covers, as is the Allparts cream on their humbucker bobbins (haven't seen their P90 covers). Allparts is just a shade darker.

Have not had problems with bowing on the GJ P90 bobbin but it could be that I don't use as much tension on the wind as most do.

WolfeMacleod

03-05-2007, 11:16 PM

It's what I use. Good luck on getting any parts. I just bought up most of the shipment they just got. EVERY single baseplate they got in, and about 95% of the bobbins they got in.

WolfeMacleod

03-05-2007, 11:17 PM

Oh..and the P-90 bobbins do suck. I don't use those.

madialex

03-06-2007, 01:29 AM

It's what I use. Good luck on getting any parts. I just bought up most of the shipment they just got. EVERY single baseplate they got in, and about 95% of the bobbins they got in.

Thanks for the heads up Wolfe. Seems to me they should order more if they run out all the time. I went through this with them a good while back, did an order, paid and then get an email saying out of stock, backorder yada yada.... ANy idea when they will get more stuff in?

Thanks for all who posted.

jason lollar

03-07-2007, 03:36 AM

damn if wolf bought 95% of the bobbins and I assume I bought the rest that means he bough app. 150,000 bobbins! If I didnt buy the rest he bought even more

NightWinder

03-07-2007, 04:20 AM

ahhahahahahahahahahaha YEah!!

madialex

03-07-2007, 04:48 AM

damn if wolf bought 95% of the bobbins and I assume I bought the rest that means he bough app. 150,000 bobbins! If I didnt buy the rest he bought even more

Thats a lot of damn pickups no matter how you slice it. GEEEZ LOUISE;)

jason lollar

03-07-2007, 05:48 PM

Well I am not picking on wolfe- its pointing out none of us really knows whats going on with suppliers. I dont know and dont care as long as I remember to order a shitload everytime I think I dont need anymore. It is the biggest pain in the ass about the whole thing- getting supplies with any consistancy and has always been.

NightWinder

03-07-2007, 07:41 PM

madialex

03-08-2007, 12:46 AM

Well, shit man. 150,000 bobbins? Thats overkill. I guess he forgot most here were waiting on stuff too. One for all, eh. I 'm wondering= he surely must have spend 20 grand? At that quantity, you'd think the supplyer would just forward him to the manifacturer? And at that amout of money spent, maybe it would have been wiser to get a Factory Injector or something......No worries down the road for bobbins. WTF Who care's. I've lost more hair than I like to admit in the last 5 yrs over this shit.

I sent them not a nasty email but not pleasant either about all the smaller winders in the world who would buy their parts as well as Wolfe and Jason etc...
Still waiting on a response.... Will post if and when I get a reply.

jason lollar

03-08-2007, 03:51 AM

nightwinder -dude- if allparts bought that many bobbins at once none of us would have to worry about supply :)
If wolfe really needed that many he would just go to goto.

ken

03-08-2007, 05:47 AM

I dunno...

Look at a HB bobbin. Now imagine how much room 150,000 or so would take up.
AFAIK 150,000 bobbins would fill up at least one of those big semi truck sized Chinese cargo ship containers, maybe two or three. Not to mention all the bases.

If Wolfe feels the need to buy 75,000 pickups worth of bobbins, it's up to him.
It's his $$$. IMHO at that kind of money he could have saved a sheetload of money simply by buying a used molder, hiring an operator, and buying the granulated plastic. With that kind of economies of scale, he would never have had to worry about running out of parts ever again.

Ken

kevinT

03-08-2007, 05:52 AM

from what i was told by one of the AP reps, they are awaiting a shipment of 10,000 baseplates from japan within the next couple/few weeks. I didn't ask about the bobbin situation.

NightWinder

03-08-2007, 06:41 AM

Right on. Let nature take its coarse.....for some reason, I've been just making it man....Natures workin with me, for now. LOL, Possum says "Hord that shit when you can!!!.

NightWinder

03-08-2007, 06:50 AM

:torch: I sent them not a nasty email but not pleasant either about all the smaller winders in the world who would buy their parts as well as Wolfe and Jason etc...
Still waiting on a response.... Will post if and when I get a reply.

You know they don't care B! Its probably best to not be soo nasty, you may sizzle a bridge you may need latter, which reminds me about a bridge I need to burn right away....LOL seriously!:torch:

WolfeMacleod

03-08-2007, 07:07 AM

FYI: Allparts only got a couple hundred of each color bobbin in one this shipment, and only 100 base plates. I bought all the cream, most of the black, and all the base-plates. I can't let them screw me again when they run out of parts like they keep doing. They put me at risk. They're barely able to keep up with my ordering. I've been waiting since November for them to fill my order.

Ken, 150,000 bobbins - or even pairs - woulnd't take up that much space. 1000 pairs, or even 2000 pairs fits in a box one person can easily carry. Judging by the space it takes up, 150,000 bobbins could easily fit in a medium bedroom closet.

ANd..if I every could buy 150,000 bobbins from AP, I'd just have the tooling made and tell Steve to screw off.

NightWinder

03-08-2007, 07:24 AM

We are all waiting for that day dude! Why the fuk do they order so small?! WTF? Thats such bullshit! Theirs guys here waiting.......What an Asshole

madialex

03-08-2007, 12:33 PM

We are all waiting for that day dude! Why the fuk do they order so small?! WTF? Thats such bullshit! Theirs guys here waiting.......What an Asshole

I didn't get real pissy with them just stated the obvious. I mentioned how a lot of you guys are waiting on stuff and about the few times I tried to order from them. This crap has been going on forever and I'm sure I am not the first to let them know about it, so yes, why the hell cant they get more parts when they know damn well they will sell out. It's not like they will be stuck with a lot of parts costing them money sitting on the shelves. Cant they see that pickup making is getting to be a pretty big thing compared to even just a few short years ago. Maybe if we all email them and let them know we want parts they will up the orders?? Any suggestions??

ken

03-09-2007, 05:32 AM

If they know everybody wants their parts, they will simply order less parts and raise the prices - less supply + more demand = more $$$.

Ken

Possum

03-09-2007, 07:52 AM

I don't understand why Lollar and Wuffie buy from AllParts, they are middlemen, I know they know the Korean guys over there, they could buy direct and save even more money and get more reliable sourcing and shipping. the guy at GFS has his stuff made to order, he sells more pickups probably than any other company I bet and goes straight to the sources......

kevinT

03-09-2007, 12:16 PM

In my analysis, out of all the parts of a humbucker pickup, baseplates, bobbins, and covers seem to be the most diffiicult to source mainly because of the expense of tooling and having them specially made. All other parts (wire, mags, screws) are reletively easy to obtain directly from the manufacture and are more affordable for smaller makers.

Between the plates, bobbins, and covers, baseplates come in next as being the least expensive and a more feasable component to have make yourself.

Having baseplates made is the next item on my list to eliminate sourcing problems. I would do it now if it weren't for the drain on funds to purchase my winder and tensioner and other supplies. I have discovered that its not all that much $$ either. In fact, from one of my quotes, I can get tooling created and have 250 baseplates made for around $1,800. In that amount, there is a $700 one-time tooling charge. The prices drop drastically for quantities of 500, 1,000 and especially 5000 where they drop to around $1.52 a piece per base plate.

The company where i received my quote use to make Gibson's humbucker covers. And there are tons of companies that do short run stamping listed on the net.

I guess, my point is, to eliminate these types of sourcing problems, you gotta have your own stuff made.

Bobbins are a little ways down the road for me. The cost for injection molds/tooling is probably around $3,000. The bobbins themselves can be had for cheap.

... just my perspective :)

erikbojerik

03-09-2007, 02:35 PM

Jason, are you getting your cream P90 covers from Allparts as well?

Someone...I forget where...a long time ago, did an extensive comparision of cream plastic-ware on Les Pauls, and decided that Jason's P90 covers were the closest to vintage cream....most other creams being contaminated with the dreaded "pink".

Possum

03-09-2007, 03:26 PM

your costs go way down per piece if you get some to buy in with you, from my experience on this forum you need to tell people about a month or two ahead of time, tell them what you are making and take orders for a buy in. Then hold your breath and hope the stuff doesn't show up being total shit. Bobbins and covers aren't hard to get in Korea, they are swimming in that stuff, Andy C is making stuff but is damn hard to get via email, haven't gotten an answer from him in months now.....

NightWinder

03-09-2007, 04:54 PM

+1 on the month notice. That is the best advice....On a dimes notice, is unlikely.....Preparation is best.

kevinT

03-09-2007, 05:49 PM

Then hold your breath and hope the stuff doesn't show up being total shit.

I have quite a few companies I plan to contact to get the best price. I hope to avoid any problems by having a prototype made as well as having a machanical drawing of the baseplate.

From my preliminary inquiries, most companies will prototype the item for you for about $125 so you can take a looksy before it goes into production. Also, these companies can create drawings using CAD software for a nominal fee.

I hope to do this sometime this year. I'll let folks know ahead of time.

NightWinder

03-09-2007, 07:00 PM

You can also download CAD software for free. 3d.

David Schwab

03-09-2007, 08:22 PM

It's his $$$. IMHO at that kind of money he could have saved a sheetload of money simply by buying a used molder, hiring an operator, and buying the granulated plastic. With that kind of economies of scale, he would never have had to worry about running out of parts ever again.

Actually you could easily tool up for having parts injection molded for a lot less, and then the parts would cost very little after the initial tooling cost.

madialex

03-09-2007, 10:43 PM

+1 on the month notice. That is the best advice....On a dimes notice, is unlikely.....Preparation is best.

He was on holiday for a short while and was buried in mail, send him another and he should get back to you. Put in the subject line, Pickups he should get right back to you;)

Just pokin fun at ya Andrew:eek:

ken

03-11-2007, 05:15 AM

Wanna bet?:rolleyes:

I emailed him looking for parts, I bought some samples, and when I wanted to make a 'real' order he wouldn't answer his emails. Still won't. Oh well.

Ken

Jabs

03-12-2007, 09:43 PM

Actually you could easily tool up for having parts injection molded for a lot less, and then the parts would cost very little after the initial tooling cost.

Injection molding has been mentioned before, but I don't recall if the rough start-up costs were ever specified. Anyone have an idea? Experience?

Jabs

David Schwab

03-12-2007, 10:27 PM

Injection molding has been mentioned before, but I don't recall if the rough start-up costs were ever specified. Anyone have an idea? Experience?

It depends on the part... the prices I've seen are between $1,500 and $3,000.
That seems like a lot of money, but lets put it into perspective. I needed some pickup covers for EMG 40 sized bass soapbars. I found some covers, they were $3.50 each, and the minimum order was 200 pieces. That's $700 for generic covers! If I saved up some money and had them injection molded, after the initial tooling cost, each cover would be about $0.60, and would be exactly the way want.

That setup cost is a killer though!

Zhangliqun

03-13-2007, 02:28 AM

On the bright side, I just got an order filled and shipped from Guitar Jones in record time. About 1 week from order date to in my hands. Wolfe must've put the fear of God in them at NAMM.

Stan H

03-13-2007, 04:24 AM

On the bright side, I just got an order filled and shipped from Guitar Jones in record time. About 1 week from order date to in my hands. Wolfe must've put the fear of God in them at NAMM.

You're lucky. He's had my 50mm baseplates and humbucker mounting springs on backorder for about 4 months now. I emailed him today and he said he still is not sure when they will be in...but he'll let me know.

Stan

Spence

03-13-2007, 02:31 PM

Spence

03-13-2007, 02:45 PM

Injection molding has been mentioned before, but I don't recall if the rough start-up costs were ever specified. Anyone have an idea? Experience?

Jabs

Look, unless you're planning to conquer the world with your pickups don't bother. The cost of making a machine or buying one is minimal compared to the financial ruin you'll encounter when getting moulds made. On the other hand why not make some formers from aluminium or car body filler and vacuum form the covers. This is what I do when I need something that's not available off the shelf. It's a cheap and cheerful, cost effective, rewarding.
No need to get all tied up in fantasies about churning out thousands of parts because it seems like nobody here will stump up any cash for them.

David Schwab

03-13-2007, 07:28 PM

Look, unless you're planning to conquer the world with your pickups don't bother. The cost of making a machine or buying one is minimal compared to the financial ruin you'll encounter when getting moulds made.

Well if you are really starting a business, it's all part of your startup costs. I certainly spent more money setting up a machine shop to make guitars when I started out! The irony is I wanted a 6 string bass, and couldn't afford any of the ones I would want, so I figured I'd build my own. After buying a band saw, jointer, thickness plainer, belt sander, air compressor, routers, etc., I could have had a nice bass made for me for less!

But the basses I made for myself are perfect for me... now the pickups are perfect for those basses. I wouldn't go into business making guitar pickups... the market is too saturated. Unless you do something really different. But I have a nice niche to fill, so I might actually take out a business loan and get my parts made and sell some pickups...

On the other hand why not make some formers from aluminium or car body filler and vacuum form the covers. This is what I do when I need something that's not available off the shelf. It's a cheap and cheerful, cost effective, rewarding.

That's how Dingwall makes his pickup covers. But he said they lack detail, so he's going to mold the pickups instead, the way Bartolini does. I might go that way, but I like having cases better.

No need to get all tied up in fantasies about churning out thousands of parts because it seems like nobody here will stump up any cash for them.

You mean making parts for other pickup makers? I'm trying to make parts for me! Screw you guys! :D I bet if someone came up with the parts everyone here (except me) seems to need people would buy them.