Scooter lied

[spiffpeters]

Frankly, I think there are some folks in the Bush administration that should be brought up on charges of treason.

That whole Brewster Jennings operation that Bush and Co. blew the cover on in order to get back at Wilson significantly diminished our ability to gather intelligence in Iran. It took years to establish that operation, and what credibility does any US intelligenc agency have in the field when recruiting new informant? How do we assure an Iranian informant that his/her identity won't be compromised over the political musing back in America? Do any of the Neocon's realize just how damaging this leak was/is to America?

Wilson called a spade a spade, and Cheney was so incensed over it that he ruined the Brewster Jennings operation.

These are the actions of responsible, rational leaders? These are the best men the USA has to offer?

Libby is merely the tip of the iceberg. We know he lied about the leak. Therefore we know there was a leak. Didn't Bush say he would fire anyone that leaked (or more precisely, he said he would fire anyone that broke the law - I guess leaking a NOC operative identity isn't illegal).

I'd say impeachment proceedings should be starting up. How many lies did we give Clinton before we impeached him?

[Slobrain]

Didn't Bush say he would fire anyone that leaked (or more precisely, he said he would fire anyone that broke the law - I guess leaking a NOC operative identity isn't illegal).

I'd say impeachment proceedings should be starting up. How many lies did we give Clinton before we impeached him?

Do you really think Dubya is gonna fire one of his rich cronies that help him break laws too? C’mon man, you know better than that!

I have been waiting to see if the impeachment process is going to get under way for ol Dubya but I guess the Dems are pussies as they don't seem to want to do this. Seems our country is going to hell, literally!

Nothing surprises me anymore with the current PIP. Sucks doesn't it :(

[Satamax]

Hey guys!

You know, it'sq going astray in every country, over here, there's soo much coppers in the streets and on the roads, that i feel unsafe, a bit like in a facist country! Not there yet, but wait for next may!

[Slobrain]

I read there are somewhere about one out of every twenty-nine people in the USA are jail, prison or in the criminal system somewhere. that's pretty bad!

It seems the criminal system is always looking for more new ways to arrest folks for just about anything any more. Talk bad about the current PIP and maybe you go to jail, seems the current PIP is the most paranoid in US history.

Of course when the current PIP is breaking more laws than any other US PIP in the past I guess they should be paranoid! Bush has outdone Clinton by 100% in lies but still no impeachment?

I guess the prophecy of the bible is coming true. Middle east in turmoil, things getting bad in the USA, cost of living skyrocketing. I heard on the news that some city here in the USA was arresting the homeless to try to get them to go to another city? Can't even be homeless without going to jail for what, loitering? That’s bad.

SLO

[casey73]

Slo - I don't want to insult you, but you come up with some of the most inane assertions such as "Bush has outdone Clinton by 100% in lies but still no impeachment....". Upon what vast amount of research do you base that statement? It was such an absurd statement that I could not let it go unanswered. And I had to break a promise to myself to not get involved in the rabid Bush bashing that goes on here. I'm not even going to get into alleged corruption in the Bush administration that you thrive on. But I will make and observation about your dismal view of life here in the U.S..

As I read this and other posts you've made on this soapbox forum, it is apparent that you've been convinced that the sky is indeed falling. Your ongoing rant about the awful state of affairs in these United States of America might lead one to assume that you get all of your news from the mainstream media outlets and take it as the gospel truth. The mainstream media lays on the bad news (real or fabricated) because people are naturally attracted to it. The fact is, in spite of the multititude of serious issues facing our country right now, including the war, there are many things about the USA and her people that are good. You just never hear about it in the liberal media outlets. All you have to do is look around. It isn't all doom and gloom out there! Clean off your glass and maybe you will see that it is half full.

I have 5 siblings. We are all in our 40's & 50's now. I didn't fully realize until well into my adult years that we grew up in a fairly dysfunctional alcoholic home and lived just above the poverty level. None of us went to college after high school. In spite of that, 4 of us have always been gainfully employed and own homes. I guess you could say we are part of that "disappearing" middle class. Two of my siblings live in dingy apartments and are at or close to the poverty level. They are both of at least average intelligence. The difference between them and the 4 of us who are living well can be linked directly to the poor choices they made in life, over and over and over. Of those two, my sister does not complain about her circumstances, and admits that she is largely responsible for her life. But, she is deeply patriotic and is very conservative. My brother,who has been chronically unemployed all his life, on the other hand, points out all the injustices in our country, hates the current administration, is always looking to government to bail him out (he is living with government assistance) and, coincidently, is the only liberal in our brood.

Some here may say I'm being naive and over simplifying based on my personal experience, but I think it is a good metaphor for the current divide between conservatives and liberals in the U.S. today. We have problems we need to deal with, but if you dwell on the negative, that is all you are going to see. There is still plenty of opportunity to be had, but it might take some effort to go out and find it.

[Slobrain]

Casey,
Let me retort,

No I do not think the sky is falling, but had a good laugh when reading that. :rolleyes:

Also, I only take with a grain of salt what the media says but its hard to ignore sometimes some of the outlandish things that are put out on the tube.

My rantings are due to what I see going on around me within the country.
Seems the past few years many crazy things going on and hard to ignore.
Cost of living in the past six years has steadily gone up up up. A war that will never end for many years because of Dubya.

We, as a nation should have known better to jump into a war with any leader in the middle east as those folks there are just plain nuts and cannot really be dealt with a a normal mental level. Secondly, why did we go to Iraq when the telaban was in Afghanistan? Who’s idea was that??? Guess who.

Bush has been lying to the public on many issues, weapons of mass destruction. Hmmmmm now lets see did they find any? No.
Then the wiretap lies, lying about prisoners in Guantanamo, The list goes on.

Clinton lied about fooling around with Monica, nothing more. The fact is that when Clinton was president things were pretty good in this country, maybe not great but most folks seemed happy enough. I was living happy with my wife and small child and enjoying a good job working at a large university making a nice living then.

Since Bush has become president its evident that he has made some really bad decisions and has lied to the American public time and time again.

Yes, I do rant sometimes and also sometimes put my foot in my mouth but to ignore what the current PIP has been doing to the country only a oblivious person would not be aware of the current state of the nation.

We are now the most hated country in the world because Bush's antics.

Look at the Katrina storm, he didn't even get the ball rolling with FEMA until a week after people were screaming for help down in NOLA. That’s just damn pathetic IMO.
As a leader you would think he would think things out before jumping into war. Also when Katrina hit I thought he should have gotten them help immediately and made sure FEMA and others were doing the jobs they were supposed to be doing.

Bush bash, you betcha. He has shown poor leadership for the country time and time over. If Clinton would have done half what Bush has done the Repubs would have definitely tried any way possible to have him impeached and sent to jail, just look at all the money wasted by the Repubs on having Ken Star try to get Clinton only to have Star say he couldn't do it.

The fact is the Repubs play dirty pool and then act all innocent when they get caught with their pants down all the while trying to blame the Dems for everything that is wrong in this country. They have really shown there ass lately and the whole country has seen it too. I think the polls also show how well the current administration is liked.

And why do I post about it, I'll tell ya, It gets people thinking and talking about the problem issues and then maybe just maybe when enough folks get really mad, they make a stand with congress to say "HEY", we are mad as hell and not going to take this crap any more. We as Americans do have that right to do just that!


Sorry but its just my view Casey73. Never said it was yours. ;) Besides, it feels good to rant and get it of my chest.:cool:

SLO

[Satamax]

Hi guys!

Well, i have to agree with Slo, USA is not regarded as a good country all over europe because of the idiot in chief! Like back in the seventies and eighties, i was a kid, "l'amerique" as we say over here, seemed atractive. Nowadays, i think i'd go to some of the southern states, like socal, az, new mexico, or on the other sidelouissiana,mississippi, florida, or else near the Yellowstone, but that's it. And something we can't deny is that he lied several times about the weapons of mass destruction, and about the reason for going to war in Iraq. We all know it' oil who led this! May be also the influence of near countries who didn't like to have such a strong local oponent, which was laic, compared to them. And were also feeding the US the much needed oil, but didn't want to go at war themselves! Quite funny frankly, to see the USA go at war to fight against terrorism, on the behalf of the biggest muslim extremists. Besides all lies, that's may be the poorest move the western world has ever done in recent history, when the chiites will be all eradicated in Iraq, what will be left is all sunnites from east to west of the middle east, and they're more extreme than the chiites! Bad move indeed, extremely bad one! I think it's recurent in US foreign affairs to make big mistakes. Plus for all the puritans wherever, in france we've had two presidents die in teh sexual intercourse or in the arms of za hooker, and one with a dual life, officialy wife and kids, and on the other side a mistress and daugter :D We never complained, what change did it make? None! Actualy, most of the people i know thought Clinton was a cool guy, quite pleasant, with a nice smile, and was "cool" c'mon, got into pumping action in his office with one of his staff, nothing wrog to say about this. Besides sexual harassement, but if you don't want to, you can always leave! But what i have to rant about here and now, is handhold of big corporate industries etc! You know, mackee D for example feeding shite food all over the planet, which is the best example, but there are some which are far more sneaky. Soon enough, big compagnies will rule the world. Just read some of the William Gibson books, i think he's close enough. Xept if the litle people react. Realy, i don't see our actual way of living last for more than two or three hundred years more, before there's a big colapse. I think we're heading towards big brother period, then refusal of all constraints and anarchy! Well i stop here because i'll go astray.

Bye.

Max.

[Satamax]

Surgical strike? What's that?










It's when the us army bombs an hospital :D


http://perso.orange.fr/do/dernieresnouvelles/dn.htm

[spiffpeters]

Casey, were you equally outraged over the alledged Clinton lies that were a daily occurence on the front page of the NY Times back in the 90's? You know, that bastion of liberal media?

Sounds like you take Bush bashing personal. Sorry for you.

The list of failed action, inaction, failed policy and failures in general is vastly longer than his list of sucess.

When you elect people that don't believe that government CAN be a agent for good, you get poor government. Bush is a prime example.

[Slobrain]

Satamax,
I feel that your right on the money when you said "looks like we are headed for Big Brother period” If any one watch’s CNN or CSPAN they will see that congress always are wanting to pass many new laws.

Now I am not against some good laws but one was discussed as a new law would be to imprisoning parent of an obese child. What good would it do for anyone to put some ones parents in prison if they feed their kid and he or she gets fat?
Seems to me that educating the parents and the child would be a better plan, but to throw some kids parents into jail or prison is about the worsted Idea I think congress could have ever come up with. Who's behind this idea? Probably the insurance company as they see it as lost profit due to an obese person going into the hospital for help and costing lots of money to get back top a good diet and healthy.

Why doesn't congress work on an plan on how to lower property taxes permantally, I never really here that one discussed. That issue only gets sidestepped over some really outrageous laws that we really do not need.
I think we have a bunch of frikken idiots in congress these days that are living in richmans lala land in their minds. Or they are possibly just as corrupt as the Bush admin.

I say get rid of lobbyist first, then remove most of congress, then get all new folks from the middle class into congress and start new. That way you will have fresh minds in there that know what’s really going on in the streets, not in richmans lala land.
Folks in congress are WAY over paid too.

I feel "I should make it MY mission" to go to the streets and start a campaign of "For the people by the people" as we have gotten lost in big government corruption and its TIME for a change.

Media also needs a few restrictions too as seems all they report is BAD stuff and that isn't good to hear on a daily basis. Its bad for civilian morale.
I know people that will not even watch the news anymore as it just depresses them. I can remember when the news was interesting to watch, in the old days.




SLO

[Satamax]

Hi Slo. Well i agree with you on some things, and some other i don't!

I agree on the laws thing, too many laws kills the law, i mean, if there's too many, who gonna make them apply? They might get you with a "obscure" law because that does them good, but most of the people wouldn't get caught on the same charges, because that dosn't make the person who got you, richer or more powerfull! Then it's no law, but a swindle! About the kid thing, i don't know what's going on in teh us, but in UK they want to get the child in someone else's care than his parents, to get him back to healthy! (he's four times the normal weight of a kid of his age!) Basicaly, the key thing is education and tolerance untill there's need for repression. In your country and UK there's a big lack of education (don't get me wrong all teh US people are not idiots!) In most of mainland europe it's a bit better. A mainland european uni degree is usualy harder to get and worth a bit more than UK or US ones, at equivalent time spent in schools! But it's getting bad over here too. Not enough money spent on education and too much on silly things like television tax recovery people (who cost more than they bring!) And on police forces as well (i'd rather see the money go to the army!)

In the country you live in, there's not too much housing problems, besides taxes, compared to UK or Holland for example. I'm preaching for a new solution, forbid the possession of secondary homes first! Or huge rented houses, i'm ok with small landlords, (like you can make twich the average income with what you own) who get small rents, make their money but don't speculate on rents!

Lobyists and huge corporate companies will be a problem in teh future, like big supermarket chains taking all the prices down, literaly killing the business of farmers in france for example. And soo on!

The story of fresh minds in the congress, that's silly, i'm sorry, it won't change a thing for more than few months, untill the new guys get more corupt than the old ones! Power corupts in every way possible! The only way is people which are unsuspectable of anything, who publish all their income and have an irreproachable behavior. If religious, they'd have to be extremely tolerant. To avoid theocracy, which can go astray big time! And as for politics, that should be a vocation, and people shouldn't get paid too much for their job, tho, they still need some kind of reward for good things, yep, rewarding instead of paying, that could be a solution. As for teh media, they should be more freed, instead of having "governement media" as you have in the US and italy, and to a lesser extent in France. I should admit UK seems better on that subject than a lot of other countries! In france, the medias are also somewhat lobying, to get the governement to do what they want, and orientate the opinion the way they want.

Well enough ranting.

Bye.

Max.