Ebay, Paypal , nothing but a big scam!

[Slobrain]

Well I'm going to rant again as I have had it with Ebay. I had 5 auctions going and try my best in my auctions to be clear on what I'm selling and the exact condition to be fair to the buyers.

Just to let you know Ebay owns Paypal so all fees assessed by Paypal go to the Ebay Corporation. Ebay asses a fee to list, a fee to put up pics, a percentage of what you sell, plus extra fees for other stuff, then paypal charges a fee to process, and a percentage of monies you receive, 2.9 percent.

Well, most bidders want to pay with paypal to make it easy to get the item they won on an auction. So I post in bold letters on my auctions, If you prefer to pay with paypal you will be required to add an additional 2.9% of the total cost to the pay as this is what paypal charges me. I feel if some one what’s to pay with paypal they can pay the extra, if not send a money order. I tell them in the auction the preferred method of payment is US postal money order. Most email me and ask if they can pay with paypal.

Well Ebay notifies me that they removed all 5 of my auctions as it's not right to tell the buyers that they should pay the extra 2.9% as its bad for auction business.

It took me two hours to get all 5 auctions posted and then without warning they remove over that one sentence of the paypal charge.

Seems to me this just is not right. I let the people who wanted to bid know if they want to use paypal it would cost the extra as I'm in passing on the cost just like every other business does to us all here in the good ol USA. But Ebay just doesn't see it that way.

I think its a load of crap and maybe should consider legal action against Ebay over this issue. They want the seller and the buyer to pay added and padded cost to use Ebay and paypal but don't want the auction seller to let the bidders know of the added cost put on the seller if the buyer say, can I pay with paypal because its convenient? ? I feel if your trying to sell items to earn a living why should I lose 2.9% when some one wants to pay with Paypal. No one extends that courtesy to me, banks charges fees, mortgage companies charge, every one charges fees, especially the phone company.

My gripe is they remove my 5 auctions because I’m up and front on my listing that the added cost because of paypal, then they remove all of the auctions and go on to tell me they might kick me off Ebay becuase of the sentence. I have a 100 % positive feedback with over 250 sales, no negatives but they might kick me off Ebay. Give me a MF break!!!

F%@K EBAY!

SLO

[Enzo]

You do know that Visa/Masterdard and the rest charge the merchant a percentage of every purchase? WHen you go to the store and buy a CD or groceries or whatever, and charge it, the store pays the Visa people somewhere between a half a percent and 2.5 percent.

It might occur to the store to add that percentage to any sale put on a charge card - just as it occurred to you - and it in fact did occur to them. But it is against the law for them to do that. It is probably against the law for you to do that as well.

It is possible ebay scratched your sales because the offer was illegal with that condition.

It is no secret paypal charges a percentage to commercial customers. Visa charges the seller, and they charge you too if you don't pay off each month. Banks charge for each check, or they require a minimum balance for "free" checking so they have your money to use for free in the mean time. Money orders cost extra to buy. And my back charges to cash money orders form out of the country. No one processes money transactions for nothing.

Paypal makes it easy for my customers in Australia, Poland, the UK, or wherever to pay me in US funds without jumping through hoops.

On the other hand I have never used ebay, so I cannot report.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

It is not against the law to charge a service fee to your customers for using a credit card.
There is no legislation out there for this.
This is myth put out there by credit card merchant servicing companies sales staff and others.
However, it is a violation of your credit card servicer's "terms" to charge a fee if the customer wants to charge it.
We all probably agreed to that in order to allow our customers to use their credit cards so, if you get caught charging a fee for accepting a card charge, they can cancel your contract to accept credit card charges... exactly the same thing the Ebay actually did to to Slo... canceled the auction contract.
The only thing you can do is increase the cost of your goods or and a handling fee to the shipping by at least the 2.9% and or offer a "free somthing else" if the customer uses cash.
I think my card carrier even says I can not advertise to offer a discount if the customer uses cash.

[Slobrain]

Hey Fellas,
Well when it comes to selling on Ebay, I never charge the buyer for packing materials or the delivery to a UPS center 5 miles from me which cost gas.
Bubble wrap is a bit expensive, so are boxes and styro popcorn.

I do all that on my own dime. I figure that I can be at least that cool to give that to the buyer as a courtesy, but if I sell a used guitar at $300.00 I have to pay all the Ebay fees and then get stuck with a fee of 2.9% percentage charge plus another 38 cents processing charge equals $9.08 also from Paypal? Jeez......Then after I total all the fees I'm paying Ebay and paying paypal too, I maybe get $270 or less from the guitar sale still not incluing the box bubble wrap and gas cost. Even less money.

Paypal will save the buyer from going to the post office to get a money order, then having to mail it too which I can understand, but then it cost me as much if not more to let them use paypal and then I have to pick up on that dime also? thats when it gets expensive.

I hear what you guys are saying and appreciate it. I didn't know that I shouldn't print what I had on the auction. I really even hate to ask the buyer to pay the paypal charge in the first place, but I got to make a living too. I'm not a big corporation. Just an un-employed guy trying to make ends meet till I land another job. Not trying to rip anyone off but that 2.9% can rack up money over time from these auctions. Man, If I could afford the fee I wouldn't care but times is hard....

SLO

Here is something that happened to me on Ebay,

Once when I was fairly new to Ebay I won an auction for a Dell laptop from a Ebay power seller for around $500.00 the laptop was misrepresented in its condition on the auction site. It said working perfectly with a 7 day warranty. . When I got it it didn't work at all. the case was not put together right as some one had clearly been working on it. It took me two and a half months to get the power seller to refund my money. All they did for the two and a half months was give me a run-around. This seller had alot of positives but had also racked up lots of negatives too. I complained repeatedly to Ebay, but Ebay did nothing.

It wasn't till I threatened the seller with legal action that they finally refunded my money, also after I had racked up two months of credit card fees from the original transaction. I had gotten an email from someone who also gotten ripped off from that same power seller and he complained that Ebay also did nothing for him either and other folks that had gotten ripped off from the same power seller. The last I heard was he and some other Ebayers were looking into a lawsuit against the seller and Ebay. Only then did Ebay remove that power seller.:mad:

[Satamax]

Ebay and paypal sucks, but they're kind of convenient too! How much would you sell a shitty amp goten at a swap meet and repaired otherwise?

Well, Slo, just charge more packing fees.

[bob p]

the "5% discount for cash" offer is what a great many merchants used to do in an attempt circumvent the VISA charges. i think VISA finally got wise to that, and made it a condition of the merchant's agreement not to offer such discounts.

regarding ebay and paypal, i know people who have had their auctions canceled for offering a free bonus item to customers who pay cash, so that won't work either.

otoh, its probably not a problem to add a handling fee to the transactions that cover your paypal charges. you could even waive it for cash customers, though ebay might slam you if you advertised as such.

the bottom line is that any auctioneer is going to charge a fee of about 10% for every transaction they become involved in. ebay/paypal charges come in under that figure, so they're not out of line. just build enough of a cushion into your price to cover the charge and you're all set.

[Satamax]

Raise the price of shipping and offer a cheaper otion for people paying in cash or with a mean of paiment which is convenient for you.

[Brad1]

However, it is a violation of your credit card servicer's "terms" to charge a fee if the customer wants to charge it.

We all probably agreed to that in order to allow our customers to use their credit cards so, if you get caught charging a fee for accepting a card charge, they can cancel your contract to accept credit card charges... exactly the same thing the Ebay actually did to to Slo... canceled the auction contract.

I think my card carrier even says I can not advertise to offer a discount if the customer uses cash.

Are gas stations different? On my way to work, there's a truck stop on I-70 that flashes "Regular $2.87 Cash" and then "Regular $3.01 Credit"...or something like that. Isn't that what you're saying they can't do? If they can do it, why can't all? Because the oil companies run the country? I dunno. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the entire thing.

The best thing to do would be to only use Ebay and Paypal as a last resort.
Screw Ebay. Never liked it, never will. They have caused so much phony inflation on the perceived value of gear that it's ridiculous.

Craigslist is free and local. Try Craigslist first. Keep the gear in the community. Give your fellow locals first chance at something. If you can't get rid of it, then try Ebay...if you must. Craigslist...no PayPal, keeps the gear in local circulation, no shipping or packing costs, costs nothing but a bit of time.

Both have actually ruined the pawn shop deals. Actually not such a bad thing since strapped musicians aren't getting ripped off by them, but it means fewer things on the shelves and walls to pick up from someone else's misfortune. I never had a problem with trying to talk down a pawn shop.

Screw Ebay and PayPal. They are EVIL!!! But, that's just my opinion.

Brad1

[Slobrain]

Brad,
I agree with you as I'm not sure why some can charge the extra when others can't? Its kinda crazy. Ebay really pissed me off removing my 5 auctions when I needed to move some gear to pay bills.

I have thought about using Craigslist until a buddy sold a guitar thru it and he said some really strange people came to his house wanting to look at the guitar. Later some one tried to break into his house and that mad him really paranoid. He got an alarm installed after that. When he told me what had happened I decided to go back to using the evil Ebay.

Just can't win these days as every company has some funky rules! Its getting really sickening how we now live under so many rules too. Police laws, homeowners rules, jobs rules. You can't do this, you can't do that?
The only folks I know that don't live by too many rules are the folks working in the senate and other parts of the government, they seem to do whatever the hell they want. Just look at how we wound up in a war with iraq and now tenet is spilling the beans on Dubyas actions to just go into Iraq, Probably an oil thing, ya know!

I mean some rules are not a problem but seems too many damn rules these days. When did we start to get consumed in so many rules? It didn't use to be this bad? Big Brother taking over :(

Jeez....


SLO

[bob p]

I mean some rules are not a problem but seems too many damn rules these days. When did we start to get consumed in so many rules? It didn't use to be this bad? Big Brother taking over :(

Jeez....
you know, there is a law against everything. :eek:

[Satamax]

Don't worry, too many laws kill the law! they'll discover soon enough. Guys, i think it's the same on this side of the pond too. Don't do this, don't do that! etc! Well, imho, the only way to go about life nowadays is to be a tad dodgy, not perfectly honest, just be straightforward with the ones who are straightforward to you. And fuck the wingers!

[Brad1]

I have thought about using Craigslist until a buddy sold a guitar thru it and he said some really strange people came to his house wanting to look at the guitar. Later some one tried to break into his house and that mad him really paranoid. He got an alarm installed after that. When he told me what had happened I decided to go back to using the evil Ebay.

I mean some rules are not a problem but seems too many damn rules these days. When did we start to get consumed in so many rules? It didn't use to be this bad? Big Brother taking over :(
Jeez....SLO

Yep, that would be one problem, but it was always that way if you advertised in the paper. I always figured I'd take the gear down to the local blues bar, and meet someone there, if I were to sell anything. They probably wouldn't mind plugging in for a few minutes in the afternoon. A neutral location, with witnesses, ya know. Nobody needs to know where I live. Nobody beating you over the head with your own guitar in your own home!

The rules are just going to get worse until the citizens stand up in this country and demand that the politicians start working for US instead of the multi-national corporations who are importing poverty and exporting work.


Brad1

[Slobrain]

Brad said,
The rules are just going to get worse until the citizens stand up in this country and demand that the politicians start working for US instead of the multi-national corporations who are importing poverty and exporting work.

Brad, you nailed it! We need to put that on billboards all over this nation and get people so pissed off they will maybe then do something like the million man march and demand Dubya be impeached and change all the political rules to a point, if these politicians do not do what they tell us when we get them elected in, then throw em out on thier ass and try some one different. :p

SLO.....

[Satamax]

Slo, i think i agree with the idea, but, do you realy think people in your country will ever make a move? The same over here actualy. Imho, most of the people are too thick or too lazy to do anything. And the clever ones are usualy on the side of the "powerfull people"

[casey73]

Slo - you want a little cheese with your whine?

Ebay and PayPal are in business to make money. If you use Ebay and PayPal you have to play by their rules. Ebay is not a garage sale, and the fees you pay to use their services is the cost of doing business. This is real simple stuff.

Like someone else here said, you're going to do better on Ebay than any garage sale, but they are going to get their cut. I've been selling and buying on Ebay for years and have done very well. I pay attention to their policies and have never had an issue with Ebay or PayPal. Education is what you get by reading the fine print; Experience is what you get when you don't. There is no such thing as free lunch anywhere, with the possible exception of North Korea and Cuba where government carries you from cradle to grave ;)

[Matt T.]

I had heard that e-bay actually stiffened their policy such that you must accept Paypal and you still can't charge extra for it. I haven't verified that but if that's case it just means that I have to increase the price 3%.

Who pays for the money order? Who pays for the postage to mail it to me? Who pays for the personal check...and the postage to mail that to me? The buyer does because those are payment fees and are paid by the buyer. Once you win the auction it's your (the buyer's) responsibilty to get payment to me. The Paypal fee is a payment fee and should be paid by the buyer. Yup...real simple stuff here.

I just circumvent it. In the past I just specified 'Money Order or personal check (which must clear first) only' and every one of my buyers asked if they could use Paypal...I said; "Sure, as long as you pay the fee." And they all did. If the new policy is such that you must accept Paypal then just increase your price by 3% and then if they choose to use a MO or personal check you can give them a 'surprise discount' (if you so choose). But if you keep the 3% when they don't use Paypal then you really didn't circumvent anything (you just made it such that e-bay's bogus policy f###ed the buyer instead of you).

[Slobrain]

Hey matt,
Well I tried to use the paypal approach tonight as I had some auctions finish and boy did it create a big stink.
Since Ebay would NOT allow me to post the sentence (If paypal is the preferred method of payment there will be an additional 3% fee of the total amount plus shipping as that is what paypal charges me to receive money)

So I wrote in my auction (The preferred method of payment is US postal money order. If you request to use paypal, please email me for details.
Then I wrote (Winning bidders, please do not pay until I send the invoice)

So what do some of these folks do, They pay immediately and then ask why the hell should I pay the extra 3%? Why are you charging me this 3%? This sounds like fraud or a rip-off! I explain why I have ad to ask for the 3% as it goes to paypal, not me and what did I get? two folks now want to leave me a negative feedback because of Paypals crap! They will probably report me to Ebay, and if I get kicked off over this crap I then plan to go head and contact an attorney to look into suing Ebay.

If you google lawsuits against Ebay you will find a lot of folks that have gotten ripped off by Ebay or other problems from Ebay, paypal has a really bad rap too doing bad business practices like locking up accounts so people cannot get their money from paypal.

I think I may just quit Ebay and paypal. I really like doing auctions but they are really funky in their business practices.

SLO....

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Play the same game as most of these power sellers do.. CHARGE TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS shipping and handling fees.
I've mistakenly bid on tubes from a few power sellers where I know for a f***ing fact that it cost around 4 dollars to ship a box of 5 vacuum tubes, in a free USPS Priority Mail box, but with handling fees, be charged $15.00 after the "contact seller for shipping information"!
Then when it shows up 8 to 12 days later, it has cheap ass third class mail stamping on it for $2.00, and guy has the audacity to use the same "free" USPS Priority Mail box, but turned inside out. This has happend to me three times in the last year and it's almost like they talk to each other and share their shipping/hanlding ripoff schemes.

I've complained to Ebay and they say I should have contacted the sellers before bidding as they didn't think that was shipping/handling price gouging.

I notice that the USPS now stamps their free boxes with USPS Priority mail on the inside now so these crooks can't use that box like that anymore... but you get the point. Make up for it with FEES not related to the paypal or ebay service fees.

[Matt T.]

SLO, you need to increase the price of the item by 3% up front and the method Bruce said is a way to do that.

I wonder what e-bay would say/do if you said something like "3% of final price added as a shipping/handling fee on top of actual shipping costs" or something like that. Once they've won the auction and paid you a certain amount you kinda have them by the short hairs..."I won't ship the item until you pay in full...and you're not getting a refund...you won the auction."

As far as negative feedback...many people don't check it...and many others know that the feedback is pretty meaningless when guys like these 'power seller rip-off artists' can have a bazillion positives with no negatives. Plus I think you can respond to neg feedback and explain your side of the story. I don't really care about that stupid, almost useless, sometimes-more-harm-than-good, 'feedback system'.

I have a bunch of stuff I would sell if I didn't hate them so much. Only if I feel I have to.

[Slobrain]

Hey fellas,
you guys are probably right. but I still feel bad about asking any more than what it cost to actually ship :(

I've bought some stuff off Ebay and gotten hit with an outrageous shipping fee. One guy sent me a Kramer guitar in case not boxed by DHL and they left it on my doorstep in full view of the street. I almost s##t when I came out my door to seen it sitting there in its tolex case. I called DHL to complain about where they left it and found out the guy paid 8 bucks to ship to me and he charged me 40 bucks. I was so pissed off.
I emailed him about the hi shipping and he said that 40 bucks was a shipping and handling fee :eek: He got a big negative...

If I were to stick it to some one though on shipping it would be the big corporations as they always seem to stick it to all of us. :p

I'm trying to get my old job back as IT tech and hopefully can stop Ebaying. Since I wasn't working I have been selling off my gear and clearing floor space that the ol lady has been complaining about. LOL....

You guys know, The ol lady will say (How many guitar amps and guitars do you need anyway???)

I'll ask her back (how many pair of shoes do you need?) LOL......

Cheers

SLO

[Satamax]

Slo, i tend to try to make money out of ebay, and find it convenient to be able to sell at higher prices than local classifieds, and have a convenient way of getting paid fast! But i charge for packing material and time. If i spend an hour packing an amp, an hour finding a cardboard box in a dump of apropriate size, an hour shopping for sello tape, buble wrap and expanded polystyrene board. I won't charge full costs, but at least half of that. Otherwise, i'm loosing money!

[bob p]

I've mistakenly bid on tubes from a few power sellers where I know for a f***ing fact that it cost around 4 dollars to ship a box of 5 vacuum tubes, in a free USPS Priority Mail box, but with handling fees, be charged $15.00 after the "contact seller for shipping information"!
Then when it shows up 8 to 12 days later, it has cheap ass third class mail stamping on it for $2.00, and guy has the audacity to use the same "free" USPS Priority Mail box, but turned inside out. This has happend to me three times in the last year and it's almost like they talk to each other and share their shipping/hanlding ripoff schemes.
if you really want to hammer someone like that, file a report with the US Postal Inspection Service. its a criminal offense for them to obtain Priority Mail boxes for use in shipments that don't carry Priority Mail postage.

more accurately, you can recycle an old PM box for use as a non-PM shipment, but if the shipper is ordering cartons of PM boxes directly from the PO, they have to acknowledge that the merchandise will only be used for PM shipments. if they're regularly using them for Parcel Post shipments or UPS shipments, the Postal Inspectors will go after them for defrauding the US Govt. at an absolute minimum, they'll bill them for the boxes they obtained under false pretenses. if they're a repeat offender, they'll hammer them.