Sewing Machine Coil Winder?

[tbryanh]

I have heard that members have converted sewing machines into coil winders.

If anybody has some pictures or info/comments about this, that would be nice.

Thanks

[petemoore]

It'll wind coils right off the bat if it has a 'flywheel' which is used to 'hand drive' the needle index...a big wheel on the right side, most all sewing machines have this I believe. All you need to do is aling the bobbin real straight on it and get the wire feeder [just a vertical pin on which to place the wire reel upright on so the wire feeds right off the top of the wire reel...through your thumb/forefinger...on to the bobbin.
A right and left traverse limiter guide...which I haven't 'hacked' on there yet, but which is also simple, nice [necessary?] feature, lets you know when you've gone all the way left or right and to reverse...
The 'tricky' part, which requires probably shopping and rigging and wiring of some sort is the turns counter, which is probably a hall effect sensor or magnetic sensor which triggers a counter. I tried a mechanical/electronic counter...a cheep calculator under the needle travel assembly..but it lost count at medium speed...you'll want a perfectly reliable turns counter system.
I have a second drive shaft on my machine, it turns once for every 25 turns of the bobbin, I'll be using that to drive a 'measuring string', which is to be color code marked [like a tape rule] so as to provide a turns count, it works fine, the only part I haven't yet got down is a non-human take up reel tensioner. For now I'm using a weighted tensioner... a long span of string, hanging a weight, which will need 'taken up' every so often so the weight doesn't hit the floor, I would rather have a motorized, tensioning take-up reel mounted right on the side of the machine...
All suggestions for how to make a tensioning take up reel assembly is welcome.

[Sock Puppet]

Here's one:

http://www.guitarattack.com/winder/winder1.htm

S.

[tbryanh]

Wow, you can use double-sided tape and mount the bobbin directly to the flywheel. Awesome. I be the foot control is outstanding as fare as speed control goes. First rate all the way I bet.

I know what you mean about the microswitch. I rigged one up to a claculator too and mounted it on the end of my drill. The lever on the switch starts floating once the RPMs increase. Also, the calculator display is hard to read.

I am going to keep the drill setup for winding inductor coils. Inductor coils use heavier wire and much fewer turns, so I probably need the tourque of the drill. The bobbin is just a hardware bolt, crude but effective, and the drill chuck works good for holding the bolt.

I definitely want to upgrade sensors and displays though. I seen some expensive packages out there, $400 or more, no way for me.

I just thought of something. I used to convert distributors that had mechanical points into electronic ignition using an aftermarket device. It has an optical sensor, and is reasonably priced. There is a little disk that goes on the camshaft. The disk has 4 cutouts for a 4 cylinder engine, 6 cutouts for a 6 cylinder engine, and 8 cutouts for an 8 cylinder engine, depending on which device you buy.

So you cover up all the cutouts except for 1 cutout, and now you have a revolution meter. The output of the sensor directly hooks to the ignition coil, so the unit will run on 12vdc. Interface that to a digital counter/display, and your done.

I am going to pursue this. I have a job and lots of projects in progress, so this has to wait in line, but I will tackle it. If anybody wants to jump in and help, that is OK too.

Wow!

[David Schwab]

Wow, you can use double-sided tape and mount the bobbin directly to the flywheel.

That's what I do.

I just thought of something. I used to convert distributors that had mechanical points into electronic ignition using an aftermarket device. It has an optical sensor, and is reasonably priced. There is a little disk that goes on the camshaft. The disk has 4 cutouts for a 4 cylinder engine, 6 cutouts for a 6 cylinder engine, and 8 cutouts for an 8 cylinder engine, depending on which device you buy.

The Schatten winder has an optical counter that works that way. The disk has one hole in it. On one side is an infrared LED and on the other a sensor.

[lexluthier72]

Hey Folks,
I am fairly new to this part of the forum, and dont post often, but I am in the process of making my own sewing machine coil winder. I will post pictures soon.
I am drilling and threading the handwheel to accept an aluminum plate that will hold the bobbin in place. I plan on using the calculator and reed switch counter. I definitely think there should be more good photos of adapted sewing machines....
-Erin

[lexluthier72]

Hey Folks,
Thought Id post some work in progress photos. The "bobbin holder" is aluminum, and is centered on the metal part of the handwheel on the end of the machine. So far....$6 sewing machine from the goodwill. $5 worth of aluminum Took a few tries to get it drilled on center (on the drillpress) $.50 cents in machine screws $4 bottle of oil (machine was hard locked when I got it) It needs a new belt (about $6) for a total of around $20 so far. I should be well under $30 for the whole thing, and a little ingenuity. See attached photos.
-Erin

[lexluthier72]

Updated photos....ditched the footswitch for a rheostat from Home Depot. On to making a wire guide and rigging up the counter....
-Erin

BTW....I gutted most of the extraneous moving parts from the machine.

[tbryanh]

Looks nice. What about a turns counter?

[lexluthier72]

I am planning on using the hacked calculator and a reed switch...I think they will keep up with about 400rpm, which is plenty fast.
-Erin

[tbryanh]

I am planning on using the hacked calculator and a reed switch...I think they will keep up with about 400rpm, which is plenty fast.
-Erin
The calculator trick is pretty neat. It should get you by for a while.

[Alabam]

This is the setup i had with an old sowing machine before moving on,(i just recently made a copy of the Schatten Winder for $25).
Where you have your holder i used two wooden coasters from Walmart, the center of each of them had cork indent, just deep enough to hide the bobbin covers, this kept the magnet wire from snagging on them.
I tried the Calculator trick, but it was inaccurate at times so i attached a mechanical counter which done the job.

Good luck with yours.

[lexluthier72]

could you post a larger picture of it...?

[Alabam]

Here you go squire, the coaster on the old winder was put on in reverse until i figured out that the cork indent could be used as an anti wire snagging device.
The other pics are my latest homemade winder, a Schatten clone.
The metal rods and collars i got from Tractor Supply, the motor is from a pitched electric fan, for the speed control i wired up an old dimmer switch, its on the top. The mechanical counter is mounted on the front.
The fan motor has two pairs of wire, next i will attach a switch to them so that i can wind in any direction.

All the best.

[lexluthier72]

Thanks much....Those are great photos...your schatten clone looks great. Although I am using a calculator for the counter, I am trying to figure out how to mount a mechanical counter....Any thoughts? See my photos...The main problem is how to mount the counter and whether it should run off the same belt or try to rig up 2 belts....?
-Erin

[Alabam]

From your pic i can see a collar on the Motor, there appears to be some room on it to run a belt to a same sized collar on the Mech` counter.
Or you can use your existing belt and mount the counter on top of the motor.

As you can see from the pic of my Sowing Machine winder, there is a bolt affixed to the main pulley, passing through the bobbin and coasters.
The mech` counter i used had a small collar at the end of its shaft which attached to the bolt, i didn`t use a belt.
I don`t have any pics of this as i trashed the sowing machine winder and moved on to a new design i thought up, you can see this in my sketch below.
I only made a few of these coils and had trouble finding more plastic strips and the covers for the coils, anyway, i discovered later that spool-less coils were being made in Taiwan which negated my design, so it was back to basics with the Schatten clone.

Cheers
Sam.

[RedHouse]

Here's my latest, another sewing machine spinner...

http://users.isp.com/brad_anne/DSC00932_sm.jpg

At the bottom of this page http://users.isp.com/brad_anne/winder.htm are a couple pics of the first coil wound with it, it took a few tries as I had to adjust things at first.

I built this one with an old Singer sewing machine motor I gutted out of a free machine, it was an old one from the 70's and wouldn't you know just when I got it finished and was ready to wind a pickup ...it gave up the ghost so I bought one of those generic replacement motors (made in chyna).

I used an optical sensor and light wheel similar to the Shatten setup, I used some decent bearings for a 3/8" shaft, and I wired-in a CUB4 counter module I got off eBay cheap cause the battery was going dead. These all run off a 12vDC 500mA supply built inside the winder.

I am going to build another one and give this one to my oldest friend, he has some medical issues and cannot work anymore. He loves music, sings and plays guitar, and I think he would like to wind pickups as he will get wheelchair-bound eventually.

[spud1950]

Very nice little winder,RedHouse. Thanks for your excellent page documenting the build!

[David Schwab]

Very nice work.

[RedHouse]

Too kind.

My next one will be made mostly of aluminum and have a tailstock part so I can wind other types of bobbins (like Rick etc.)

[SkinnyWire]

Nice work. I built mine with a similar optical sensor. Can't figure out why more people don't use them.

Do you find you have trouble keeping a relatively constant speed with the light dimmer control?

[RedHouse]

Nice work. I built mine with a similar optical sensor. Can't figure out why more people don't use them.

Do you find you have trouble keeping a relatively constant speed with the light dimmer control?

It holds quite steady, once I find my tension and adj the speed.

[darrell07]

Hi folks First post here,
Hay RedHouse thanks for the pics it realy helped me alot in building my own winder.Now if I can figure out how to wire a counter, the calculator counter is pretty easy but it wont count very fast.
I like your friend have some medical issues and cannot work either.

Im amazed at how much R&D these guys put into there work right down to the coil winders , Just amazing..

[SkinnyWire]

It holds quite steady, once I find my tension and adj the speed.

I started with a dimmer, but it wouldn't hold a steady speed very long. They're generally not too good for this kind of load. Swapped it with a 2A variac and no problem ever since.

[RedHouse]

I started with a dimmer, but it wouldn't hold a steady speed very long. They're generally not too good for this kind of load. Swapped it with a 2A variac and no problem ever since.

Likely the particular dimmer you used was the cause, this one is steady, no variation on it's own when the motor is running.

[Magnut]

I made a simple winder using a sewing machine motor. New motor was about 30 bucks. I attached it to a rear hub from a mountain bike. I use a potientiometer to control the speed. Currently have a simple microswitch to do the counting. Total cost for the winder was under $50. It has been updated since this pic. It no longer has the wood block.

...and yes that is one fat coil, wanted to see how much I could get on and how it would sound... terrible!

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/TroubledTreble/Pickups/Winder3.jpg

[SonnyW]

Here's a sewing machine winder that works just fine.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=11

I used a reed switch and a counter from fargo controls. The counter only cost around $30, and is much neater than the calculator mod. I used a magnet in the machine needle holder to work the counter. I soldered a brass wire to a cut off needle and attached a magnet to that. It counts great once it's adjusted with no bounce at high speeds. On my machine, the gear ratio for the needle is 1:1 so for each revolution of the handwheel the needle makes one cycle. I use double sided tape to mount the bobbins to the handwheel. Haven't had any come loose yet. If you want to see more pics of all the parts of this there are several in my public album.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=16

http://music-electronics-forum.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=15

[RedHouse]

Now THAT'S a sewing machine winder!

[SonnyW]

thanks :) yours seems to be a lot more professional though. I bet a lot of work went into that one. Nice too, what you plan to do with it. -sw

[RedHouse]

thanks :) yours seems to be a lot more professional though. I bet a lot of work went into that one. Nice too, what you plan to do with it. -sw

Thanks for your kind words, yeah I have difficulty thinking of my friend as wheelchair bound (isn't yet, but sometime in future) he's on a morphine patch system to keep the pain down.

It's funny (strange/final) how life hands one surprises as one get on in years.

[spud1950]

SonnyW - That's the best sewing machine winder I've ever seen. Your setup for the tripping counter is quite ingenious!

[SonnyW]

thanks, you are too kind.. but if I have stumbled onto any ideas that other winders can put to use that's good for everybody. I certainly have gotten a lot of good ideas from this forum, mainly just by lurking.

[chevalij]

Sonny, if you look at your sewing machine winder, I'm sure you'll notice that it's probably more suited to pickups than JGungry's Leesona. It's made by PFAFF! hehehe

[SonnyW]

Come to think of it maybe you're right. I could cross out a couple of those F's in the name, maybe paint it green, get me some Alinco II bars and I'd be all set --- no wait --- I could call it the "Black Monster" :D At least it's the right vintage... 1952 and still humming along.

[David King]

Mine is a WWII British-made Spartan (Singer). I'm still working out the tensioner and traverse for it but it will soon be replaced by a Generation ? winder that will be more portable and ergonomic to use.

[salvarsan]

Mine is a WWII British-made Spartan (Singer). I'm impressed by the reflection optocoupler.

-drh

[David King]

Thanks Dr.
I had to mess around to get it to trigger. I started with black sharpie and a white paper dot. The paper reflected less than the gloss black sharpie. I went with copper foil that I buffed up to mirror finish. The black was much trickier, I tried silicon carbide sandpaper but ended up with ebony dust sprinkled over wet shellac (can you tell I'm a luthier?). It's rock solid 2000 rpm.
The extra mass is good at that speed as even with balanced shafting, any off centeredness of the bobbin will start it bumping around a bit as the coil fills up with copper.

[David Schwab]

Is that a hack saw blade I see?

[SonnyW]

Good work David. Very original. Using the other end of the main spindle to mount the plate for attaching the bobbin is a good idea that gets all the drive components out of the way. I wouldn't have thought of that. After taking a look at your homepage I can see why though. I don't think I would be able to get that big of a pickup bobbin to stay put on mine, the attachment area is too small for that amount of mass. I, too am curious about the hacksaw blade...

[David King]

Ahh yes the hacksaw blade...
I needed a springy piece of metal to hold the wire guide (a delrin washer) so that the wire spool on the floor can un-spool straight up. A dead hacksaw blade was handy so I ground the teeth off it and bolted it to the front plate. It's not ideal but it works well enough that I haven't bothered to change it. A refinement would be a hinge so that it would swing out of the way when not in use. All of the wire guide parts came off the old sewing machine. I replaced the main shaft with a straight one as the original had all kinds of crank kinks in it to drive the various internal sewing apparatus and it was way out of balance as a result.

[David Schwab]

Ah! first I thought it was for cutting the wire, or slitting your wrists... (as an alternative to pulling out hair.. for the fashion conscious).

Then I thought I saw the washer or a grommet, so I figured it was a wire guide.

We all come up with ways.. when I wind I steal a freestanding cup holder tree to put my spool on wire on, and sit it behind me to the right on top of a storage container. One of these days soon I'm going to make a permanent setup.

So David, have you finished any pickups, and have you tried them in one of your super cool basses? That looks like a clone of a Guild pickup in the photo.

Inquiring minds want to know!

:D

[David King]

I just finished winding my second set of dual coil humbuckers, I was busy soldering them tonight but didn't have room on the bobbins for grommets so I'm going to do them up guitar HB style. The first set was for a 4 string and it's really just a couple of pairs of Jazz pickups but with radiused, grounded magnets and totally shielded wood covers. They sounded like bass pickups, good all around and dead quiet. These latest are longer 5 strings with same number of turns so I'll be curious to see if there's a big difference.

I really want to do some mismatched sets with A3s on one coil and C8 and steel poles on the other. I also have some ideas about neodymium mags but I want to get a handle on the Alnico and ceramic options first.

[David Schwab]

Cool!

I just did a mismatched bridge pickup. I had two different designs I liked, and wanted to merge them, so I used one coil from each. Different gage wire, and different amount of turns too! Double mismatched. ;)

I played it and had to call my wife and work and tell her I hit pickup nirvana.

Test 4 (http://www.sgd-lutherie.com/media/new_bridge_test_4.mp3)

[David King]

David,
Those do sound great, congratulations. Really nice growl and very clean top and bottom with lots of character. I take it those are ceramic magnets in there?

[David Schwab]

Thanks David. Those are neo magnets. The same pickup with a ceramic was much thinner sounding. The neos give a nice snarl in the mids and have a big bottom. Kind of a cross between alnico and ceramic tone wise.

Is that bass your original bass, or one that looks like it? That's a cool bass. I always liked that one, and the King Bass too. The King Bass has some of the styling cues I've always liked in basses, and I used a lot of similar lines in mine. Very tasteful design David.

[salvarsan]

Thanks Dr.
I had to mess around to get it to trigger. I started with black sharpie and a white paper dot. The paper reflected less than the gloss black sharpie. I went with copper foil that I buffed up to mirror finish. The black was much trickier, I tried silicon carbide sandpaper but ended up with ebony dust sprinkled over wet shellac (can you tell I'm a luthier?). That's instructive.

It means that the Sharpie ink transmits infra-red
in the band used by the optocoupler.

I got one to work with an aluminum foil patch on a black enameled
lathe faceplate, but we ultimately went with a Hall effect switch
for reasons I can't remember.

Oh, yes I do. (sigh)

I thought it would be clever to use a one-string guitar pickup type
as a turns counter. The first design had a steel screw head on the
radius of the masonite faceplate.

The sensor was a mere 200 winds of #42 on a 1inch nail with a neo
button magnet glued to the head, but turning that signal into a digital
one with a finicky comparator circuit was just too much trouble.

-drh

[RedHouse]

...
The sensor was a mere 200 winds of #42 on a 1inch nail with a neo
button magnet glued to the head, but turning that signal into a digital
one with a finicky comparator circuit was just too much trouble.

-drh


Did you try a "zero crossing detector" chip? those are just the ticket for this kind of thing, something like this should have done it for you:

http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM1815.html

[David King]

I think I finally figured out what was happening by measuring current flow or voltage drop across the phototransistor. When I slipped different reflective things in front of the sensor and varied the distance, I could figure out how it was supposed to work and get my counter to pay attention. Pulse width minimum I think was supposed to be 5 >ms or 5% dwell, I can't remember now, anyway it can count to 22khz I think.

[Joe Gwinn]

I think I finally figured out what was happening by measuring current flow or voltage drop across the phototransistor. When I slipped different reflective things in front of the sensor and varied the distance, I could figure out how it was supposed to work and get my counter to pay attention. Pulse width minimum I think was supposed to be 5 >ms or 5% dwell, I can't remember now, anyway it can count to 22khz I think.The spec will most likely be for a minimum pulse width, and not for a dwell. The easy way to set this kind of thing up is to put a voltmeter across the phototransistor output and manually turn the bobbin shaft, thus measuring the fraction of a circle the output is high. Then some simple arithmetic will tell you how fast the bobbin can spin and still meet the minimum pulsewidth.

The 22 KHz will be with 50% duty cycle, which implies a 45 microsecond cycle and a 23 microsecond minimum width. That's awfully fast, and will allow the counter to respond to noise.

Hmm. I'd check if the 22 KHz is correct. If it's true, it's time for a resistor capacitor low-pass filter between phototransistor and counter, to prevent false counting.

[salvarsan]

Did you try a "zero crossing detector" chip?Nope. We used an LM311 comparator with the circuit straight out of the National app notes.

When we saw how easy it was with a Hall effect switch (1 component, 3 wires), work on the variable reluctance sensor languished.

-drh

[RedHouse]

Nope. We used an LM311 comparator with the circuit straight out of the National app notes.

When we saw how easy it was with a Hall effect switch (1 component, 3 wires), work on the variable reluctance sensor languished.

-drh


Same here when I tried the pickup routine, then switched over to an optical interrupter and never looked back.