Kynar tape around magnets?

[David King]

I hear that kynar is thin and incredibly tough as an insulating material. It should be ideal for wrapping around magnets before winding.
Is anyone here using it?
Does anyone have a source for 1/2" wide tape.
Thanks

[Joe Gwinn]

Does anyone have a source for 1/2" wide [kynar] tape.
It is sold as a self-stick tape for protecting gold-plated fingers on printed circuit boards from wave soldering, so I would look into suppliers of soldering supplies.

[DrStrangelove]

It is sold as a self-stick tape for protecting gold-plated fingers on printed circuit boards from wave soldering, so I would look into suppliers of soldering supplies.You may mean Kapton, and it is certainly very tough.

Kapton tapes are available from C.S.Hyde in widths appropriate
for pickup building, namely 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4".

http://www.cshyde.com/tapecat.htm

I would guess that thinner is better since you want a winding
as close as possible to the magnet.

-drh

[David King]

Ah yes Kapton, it certainly looks like the same stuff and they both have that handy 500º heat resistance for when the guitar catches fire mid-solo.

Price is right too. Thanks guys.

[bbsailor]

Why not try Teflon plumbers tape available at any hardware store?
It is very thin and has a dielectric constant near 2. I believe it is available in a0.5 inch width.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[Dave Kerr]

Why not try Teflon plumbers tape available at any hardware store?
It is very thin and has a dielectric constant near 2. I believe it is available in a0.5 inch width.

Joseph J. Rogowski

Someone here reported trying teflon tape with poor results, the wire apparently would tear the tape and short out on the magnets.

[DrStrangelove]

Why not try Teflon plumbers tape available at any hardware store?
It is very thin and has a dielectric constant near 2. I believe it is available in a0.5 inch width.Hello, sailor.

Under the pressure of several thousand windings of hair-thin wire,
the teflon tape sometimes deforms and cuts through often enough
to be a quality control issue.

-drh

[David Schwab]

Hello, sailor.

You need a Mae West avatar now.

[bbsailor]

A company called Unites States Plastics Corp has products that may help pickup makers improvise parts.

They have a 3/16" ID X 1/4" OD X 1/32" wall Teflon FEP Tubing at the following web link.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/variant.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=30148&product%5Fid=12305&variant%5Fid=58081

This tubing could be cut into individual lengths to match the pickup coil height, slipped over each magnet and provide a good, thin insulation layer.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[bbsailor]

You need a Mae West avatar now.

Hey Strangelove: Is that a pickup in your pocket or do you want to make some music?

A little good humor is always welcome and is also a good ice cream.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[David King]

I've looked at a lot of thin walled tubing options and none are thin enough in my opinion. The best I could do was .007" kynar heatshrink but that stuff costs an arm and a leg compared to this tape with is about 2 mils including the adhesive.

The tfe plumbers tape is most definitely not up to this task.

Kapton and kynar are trade names, I think polymide is the generic...

[Possum]

the tubing I don't think would work, its my opinion that where the wire shorts out is where the magnet meets the forbon, I could be wrong but in my experience if you glue the magnets in and have a fat fillet there it won't short out. Plain old cellophane tape works fine, Guitar Jones sells or at least used to sell some black cellophane type tape that I use, still have a bunch of rolls left from 5 years ago. Doesn't need to be anything exotic. There is also a yellow 3m tape used alot in the 70s that still exists for wrapping coils that would work too, I see it on Ebay now and then....

[David King]

Well it's supposed to work but I just got a set of pickups installed, now cast in epoxy, where it apparently didn't... I didn't wind them but someone did them for me as a favor and much to my surprise two of the four coils were grounded out despite glue fillets and cellophane tape...

[Possum]

I wonder what kind of tape the Guitar Jones stuff is, it sure works, I can't find anything similar online right off the bat, my stash is getting old too, I'll ask if he still carries it.....

[DrStrangelove]

I've looked at a lot of thin walled tubing options and none are thin enough in my opinion. The best I could do was .007" kynar heatshrink but that stuff costs an arm and a leg compared to this tape with is about 2 mils including the adhesive. Kynar is also used in piezoelectric contact microphones.
Unless you wind on the tight side,
it may be a source of microphonic noise.

Kapton is your friend.
Nevermind about calling it polyimide film.
All polyimide resin feedstock comes from the same US vendor.

For the moment, polyimide == Kapton in the same manner
that polytetrafluoethylene (PTFE) was Teflon until the patent expired.

-drh

[Joe Gwinn]

You may mean Kapton, and it is certainly very tough.Kynar and Kapton may be different brand names for the same thing.

And, thinner is better, in pickups. Kapton/Kynar doesn't creep much, so the winding wires should not be able to "swim" through the film.

[DrStrangelove]

Kynar and Kapton may be different brand names for the same thing.They are distinct.

Kynar is a tough clear-colored poly vinylidine fluoride film possessing a high dielectric constant ~7 and exploitable piezoelectric qualities. It was used extensively in wire-wrapped construction of electronic prototypes in the 1980's.

Kapton is an amber-colored polyimide possessing a low dielectric constant ~3.4 and is usable in bulk (not film) to 900F. It has poor abrasion resistance.

This is just off the top of my head.
Wikipedia will give you the complete story.

-drh

[Old Tele man]

..teflon "cold flows" and is NOT a good insulator under 'pressure.'

[kevinT]

For my modern pickups, I use 3M's 1318-1 Polyester Film Tape with Acrylic Pressure-Sensitive Adhesive to wrap the coil for my humbuckers. Although I have not yet tried it, I'm thinking that it will also work to insulate the magnet rods on the single coils after dipping them in lacquer.

Here is the data sheet for the 1318 tape.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTt5XMt5XF6EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E 666666--

http://rshughes.com/catalog/

is the source that I use

[kevinT]

whoops....just realized rshughs is out of stock of the 1/4 inch 1318-1 to wrap humbucker coils. Permacel also manufactures something similar which i also have used. Data sheet is below.

http://www.permacel.com/pdfs/280_281.pdf

Here is a source:

http://www.oemwire.com/p281tape.htm

[Possum]

Good this is what I was trying to find thats like the tape Guitar Jones has/had. This stuff looks like black cellophane tape right?

[Possum]

I don't see anything that says they are out of stock at RSHughes, I put 6 rolls in the cart and nothing saying they don't have it....where did you hear that one?

[kevinT]

I don't see anything that says they are out of stock at RSHughes, I put 6 rolls in the cart and nothing saying they don't have it....where did you hear that one?

yep, I ordered some too, but the sales person sent me an email after placing my order last week and he said that they no longer carry the .25 or 1/4 1318-1 (black) in stock and that i would have to buy 144 rolls...a case. They had other sizes in stock and the yellow in .25 and the black in 3/8 but not the 1/4 inch.

I was thinking of buying 144 roles and selling some. I have the permacel equivalent and it is not as good as the 3M. 3M is the shit!!!! Fo Sure!!

The polyester film with acrylic adhesive is really nice stuff.... very thin and tear resistant.

The sales person is going to get me pricing for a case.

[kevinT]

oh...Dave.....also i forgot to mention.... RShughs has various servicing warehouses in different regions of the US...so the warehouse (closer to you) that is fullfilling your order still might have small quantities to send you.

The servicing warehouse for me is in Baltimore, MD and they said that they no longer carry the 3M 1/4 inch 1318-1 (black) in smaller quantities any more.

Therefore, you still might get your order....let me know how it turns out for you. If not, i just might buy the 144 rolls and i can sell some to folks on the forum maybe.