PAF Paper Tape Size?

[PoorMan]

I'm no PAF expert, but I like the look of the paper tape. What width was the on PAFs?

[belwar]

1/4" on the bobbins, but it's actually very difficult to find good tape. The original tape used was Scotch #4 tape, which they stopped making several years ago. There are tapes that are close but nothing EXACT.

b.

[David Schwab]

I wonder why people agonize about things like the tape being exact and stuff. It doesn't matter at all in the big scheme of things. All this PAF worship is dumb in my opinion and stops innovation. Just make some pickups, and they will probably sound better than those old pickups. Maybe even do something new!

They were just pickups. No one thought they were as great back then as people think they are now! People even replaced them with things like DiMarzios. I guess new seemed better? No, but music changed and people wanted louder pickups.

People just started using different tones than back then, and they don't play the same either. That's the way music goes. 'Round and 'round, and back to where we started!

[PoorMan]

I wonder why people agonize about things like the tape being exact and stuff. It doesn't matter at all in the big scheme of things. All this PAF worship is dumb in my opinion and stops innovation. Just make some pickups, and they will probably sound better than those old pickups. Maybe even do something new!

They were just pickups. No one thought they were as great back then as people think they are now! People even replaced them with things like DiMarzios. I guess new seemed better? No, but music changed and people wanted louder pickups.

People just started using different tones than back then, and they don't play the same either. That's the way music goes. 'Round and 'round, and back to where we started!

WTF? PAF worship? Innovation? DiMarzios? :confused:

Where'd you get all that from? I just like the look of the tape. I plan on using it on my metric short-leg 4 conductor humbuckers with SPN wire.

I usually enjoy your posts, Dave. Why are you trolling today?

[SkinnyWire]

I wouldn't take it too hard. I agree with Dave's basic sentiment. Wind 'em up and you can do as good or better than the originals I'm sure. No need to sniff the alloys and taste the wire.

That said, I think the tape was wider - more like 3/8" or 1/2". I've never handled a PAF, but the T-Tops and the like that I've rewound had tape that was wider than the gap between the flatwork. There are folks here that know for sure, so hopefully they'll chime in.

[kevinT]

I believe there are two sizes.

1/4 inch for the bobbins and the 1/2 inch size that is generally wrapped around the area of the lead hookups that covers the space between the baseplate and the underneath the flange of the bobbin.

[Possum]

WTF???? I pray to the PAF every day, at noon I bow and say blessings to the NorthWest Direction where the PAF lives. The PAF is the great, all wise, all knowing, the buckerism of the buckerisms. Do not blaspheme the PAF:mad:

In all sincerety though, my obsession with studying the great PAF is it has taught me alot about humbuckers, these maddening collection of parts can be manipulated in hundreds of ways, they are the most complex of modern pickups, the most frustrating to deal with if you want to go beyond the great Stewmac :-) To get the real tones took me years of study of stuff way beyond what I thought I'd be doing........

[David Schwab]

WTF? PAF worship? Innovation? DiMarzios? :confused:

Where'd you get all that from? I just like the look of the tape. I plan on using it on my metric short-leg 4 conductor humbuckers with SPN wire.

I usually enjoy your posts, Dave. Why are you trolling today?

That wasn't directed toward you! :D

But there's always this big thing made about the paper tape not being the right kind! Like the pickups wont sound right with the wrong tape.

I use the stuff too.

Hey, I ran out of coffee today... :eek:

;)

[David Schwab]

WTF???? I pray to the PAF every day, at noon I bow and say blessings to the NorthWest Direction where the PAF lives. The PAF is the great, all wise, all knowing, the buckerism of the buckerisms. Do not blaspheme the PAF:mad:

In all sincerety though, my obsession with studying the great PAF is it has taught me alot about humbuckers, these maddening collection of parts can be manipulated in hundreds of ways, they are the most complex of modern pickups, the most frustrating to deal with if you want to go beyond the great Stewmac :-) To get the real tones took me years of study of stuff way beyond what I thought I'd be doing........

You don't count Dave. :p You are looking at the parts that matter, not just the cosmetic stuff.

But still, I'd rather never make a guitar that uses Gibson or Fender form factors when it comes to parts. But that's just me.

It's even creeping into music... it's becoming so generic and all.

[David Schwab]

No need to sniff the alloys and taste the wire.


No, that's the fun part! The other stuff is marginal.

But it's like winding a great tele pickup, but then someone points out it doesn't use the correct string on the outside. Who cares? It serves no purpose to the tone of the pickup, and it's just stupid. But people just keep copying it.

Then there's the humbucker baseplate with the stupid long legs. Even the short legs. They serve no purpose and make mounting the pickup a pain. It wobbles on the two screws and never lines up parallel to the strings.

It was a poor design 50 years ago, and it's still a poor design.

Bah! Humbug!

:D

[PoorMan]

You don't count Dave. :p You are looking at the parts that matter, not just the cosmetic stuff.

And your comments aren't directed toward me, you say? If that's truly the case then they seem very out of place in my thread.

[David Schwab]

And your comments aren't directed toward me, you say? If that's truly the case then they seem very out of place in my thread.

It was really about the comment belwar made that the tape is not made anymore, and even then I'm just poking fun about the whole thing.

It was just my opinion on the current pseudo-vintage pickup fad that's going on. I personally see no reason to replicate a pickup to the point of wanting the exact tape or coax with the same number of wires in the braid, or even the smell of the plastic the bobbin is molded from. It makes no sense at all, and has nothing to do with the tone of the pickup. But I also don't see the point in all the fender Jazz bass, Strat and Tele copies on the market. It lacks originality. The same is true of the tones people are using. It's the same old thing over and over. It's all very generic, like a uniform everyone has to wear.

But this is like saying I don't care for the style of shoes that's popular now, and it says nothing about people that might wear those shoes.

It was really kind of an off the cuff commentary and was not to taken personally by anyone. I'm just questioning why someone would even care.

I was teasing Dave because he spent a lot of time and effort analyzing the metals and stuff used in the original pickups, and that will matter more than if the tape is exact.

It's the same with the trend of "relic" guitars. I think it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen, but people like it. The real problem is everyone is now brainwashed to think they need this stuff to make good music or get a good tone.

I saw a band the other day and the guitar player was using an old Silvertone with DeArmond gold foil pickups. It was so refreshing to see something other than a Les Paul or Strat, or some derivative thereof. As if that's the only two brands of guitars made (of course between the Fender buying everyone and the mother up, as well as Gibson doing the same, they might as well be). I mean do you want to hear a player and think; "oh that's a PAF or a Tele pickup" or do you want to hear someone with a unique tone all their own? I'm much more excited when I hear something new and can't figure out how they got that tone. Their tone, not someone else's tone they copped from an old record.

I give Taylor Guitars a lot of credit for designing all new hardware for their electric line, instead of using old Gibson or Fender designs. You can't do something new if you keep copying something old.

But as far as black tape... I use the stuff too. Its black and sticky and covers up the wire. :D I personally don't care if it is the exact same tape used by Gibson in 1960 or whatever.

This is a public discussion forum after all, so talking about all aspects of pickups is what we do here. :)

[Spence]

Some of us like to go the extra mile when recreating a PAF. But I would agree that some of the parts are of little significance to the tone.
When I was talked into transistor amps after suffering a bad shock from a valve amp, I found that my PAFs just didn't drive the amp.
Duncan and DiMarzio came on the scene offering a choice that wasn't there before. I guess it's human nature to try something new when you have a choice, especially when there was no choice before. The hotter, new pickups found their way into all my guitars for years.
I will say though, a real PAF can sound absolutely wonderful although there are plenty of poor ones out there.
As for the tape, if it's the tape's qualities you're after and colour isn't an issue, Scotch #12 is just a biege version of the same thing and is still available.

[David King]

Try
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MElectrical/Home/ProductsServices/Products/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20OES1_nid=H7M72Q8P5Qbe70Q1MK7 N3Ngl
for the #12

[SkinnyWire]

It wobbles on the two screws and never lines up parallel to the strings.

It was a poor design 50 years ago, and it's still a poor design.

Bah! Humbug!

:D

I do like Carvin's mounting pattern better.

Thing about the tape too is a lot of the customer base is expecting to see it as well. There are other reasons to be aware of it. That said, when I started I used to put 1/4" ribbon around the coil pair. Really nice looking, but a bit of a PITA.

[Possum]

The tape thing is kind of like the tele bridge string wrap, people expect it to look right. There's ways to get an authentic look but it takes too much time and is rarely called for.

[David Schwab]

The tape thing is kind of like the tele bridge string wrap, people expect it to look right. There's ways to get an authentic look but it takes too much time and is rarely called for.

Just stop doing it and people will get over it. :D

When they ask about it ask them "why?" When they realize they don't have an good answer it might make them think a bit.

That might stop customers from asking for silly stuff, like chevalij's recent post where someone wanted the bridge pickup in a Strat set to sound like Gilmore (that would be a Tele on the old recordings, and an EMG-SA on newer stuff), and a Frusciante neck tone (Jazzmaster!), etc.

OK.. wishful thinking.

I mean there's nothing wrong with making a repro, and a lot of you guys do a great job of it. Maybe I'm just getting old and looking at younger players and wondering "what's wrong with these people?" lol They have a skewed version of what vintage gear was all about before it was vintage.

I mean when someone says "vintage voiced" what is that exactly? The way an old pickups sounds now? Or the way it sounded back then? Or the tone people got with a combination of stuff, like Clapton's Beano tone... people forget about the Rangemaster treble booster, and that he soudns like he had the tone controls turned down. But they expect that tone right from the pickup. I had a customer once that was obsessed with SRV. He kept saying he wanted that tone, and I said, well you can use the same gear as he did... nothing tricky going on (except playing though a half dozen amps at the same time), but good luck trying to sound like him! I tell them to find their own voice, and use their heros as inspiration.

But I'm a player first. I was a big Stanley Clarke fan when I was younger. I could do Stanley down to a T. Then one of my high school friends, who was a scary good guitarist, said he got to meet John Mclaughlin. So I thought if I got to meet Stanley, and he asked me to play something, what would I play? An imitation of him? That was my epiphany, and since then I try to get my own tone, so I sound like me. I like to tell these stories to my customers when they have unreasonable demands! lol

You see the same thing on the Talk Bass forums where most of the younger guys think Precision basses only sounded like Motown! And then don't know how to get that tone either. I went to see Nikka Costa at Webster Hall in NYC on Monday, and they were doing this very 70's soul/funk thing, complete with the clothing, but the bass player had no clue how to get that tone on his P bass. He was getting more of a dub reggae tone, with all the highs and mids rolled off. It lacked any definition and punch, and made me want to smack him with a whiffle bat and say "let me show you how it's done son!" :D Of course he was playing through an SVT so that didn't help matters either.

Possum pointed out a nice black tape from Pearl Paint not long ago. Personally I get more excited when I see Duncan and Dimarzio pickups with circuit boards on the bottom... looks more high tech. :)

[PoorMan]

I'll just use this...
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/images/ducttape.jpg

[kevinT]

Now that tape will keep the coils nice and tight and protected. In fact, the tape is tamper proof. The coils will self-destruct if one tries to remove the tape....:D

I watched a Modern Marvels episode on the History Channel about tape. It gave the history of Duck Tape....it was quite interesting....

[David Schwab]

I'll just use this...
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/images/ducttape.jpg

He he he... you can make some Duckbuckers!

You don't like the Stew-mac tape?

Here's the stuff Possum found:

Black Crepe Masking Tape (http://www.pearlpaint.com/shop~ocID~~parentID~972~categoryID~967.htm)

[PoorMan]

He he he... you can make some Duckbuckers!

You don't like the Stew-mac tape?

Here's the stuff Possum found:

Black Crepe Masking Tape (http://www.pearlpaint.com/shop~ocID~~parentID~972~categoryID~967.htm)

I like the Stewmac 1/4" tape, but I also wanted the wider paper tape that they don't carry. I was at work and couldn't measure the wider size (and was being lazy) so I posted the question here.

Belwar was nice enough to help me out with some 1/2" paper tape. I've been meaning to try the pearl paint tape, I just wasn't sure of the size. I'll order some of that too.

EDIT: Or not...Pearl wants almost $9 shippnig for $4 worth of tape (I am very low volume). I think I'll pass and stick with the tape I got from Belwar which is very nice.