Overly bright humbucker

[Meowy]

What would make a humbucker overly bright? It is wound with 42 ga approx (+) (-) 5000turns per bobbin (stew mac) with a total DCR of ~8.3KOhms

[David Schwab]

Is it real thin sounding with no low end? Or just bright?

If it's real thin, you have the coils wired in phase. They need to be out-of-phase.

[Meowy]

No it's not really thin. It has lots of good tone, but just a very bright kind of fizz to the top end

[PAF-Boy]

Howdy

Leave those stewmac parts alone and go for other aloys for the metal parts.Cut those slugs yourself,get rid of the carbone parts inside the steel (heat them in a hardening oven) and get them nickle-plated without the copper plating that the stewmac have.
Same with the keeper-bars.
Find Filisterhead screws in online shops and listen to their sound.Order a few thousands to be shure not to run out of your favorite screw if you find it.
And have fun!
Paf-boy

[David Schwab]

I've wound several really nice sounding humbuckers with Stew-Mac parts. Two were PAF specs, and the other two were very different designs.

Humbuckers are bright though, that's normal. The ones you hear that are PAF spec and not bright... those aren't what a PAF sounds like.

The type of steel does matter, but you can get a good tone from those parts.

Here's a couple of the pickups I made from Stew-mac parts:

garagemaster clean

[belwar]

What would make a humbucker overly bright? It is wound with 42 ga approx (+) (-) 5000turns per bobbin (stew mac) with a total DCR of ~8.3KOhms

There are two simple changes you can do to alter the tone of the pickup.. Change the magnet, and change the pole screws. I really wanted Alnico 5 to work for my buckers, but it was way to bright. I finally settled on A4 for the neck and A2 for the bridge, but I may go to A4 on the bridge.

Different alloy screws with different head shapes will sound different too. The screws from Mojo are relatively dark sounding, so that might help.

[Meowy]

There are two simple changes you can do to alter the tone of the pickup.. Change the magnet, and change the pole screws. I really wanted Alnico 5 to work for my buckers, but it was way to bright. I finally settled on A4 for the neck and A2 for the bridge, but I may go to A4 on the bridge.

Different alloy screws with different head shapes will sound different too. The screws from Mojo are relatively dark sounding, so that might help.

I am using A4s from RS Guitarworks. I suppose I could try Mojos screws but (not to dispute) I'm kind of surprised that could have so much impact

[belwar]

Leave those stewmac parts alone and go for other aloys for the metal parts.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stew mac parts, excellent pickups can be made with them. Pretty much everyone uses those baseplates, bobbins. I will agree I dont like thier screws, but that is only personal preference.

Cut those slugs yourself,get rid of the carbone parts inside the steel (heat them in a hardening oven) and get them nickle-plated without the copper plating that the stewmac have.

Oh yes, because that is readily available to everyone hobby winding one or two pickups! <snark>.

In my mind that is totally unnessesary, when there are PAF alloy accurate slugs readily made and sold by pickup parts vendors in america. I see no evidence that gibson used non heat treated steel. They were very practical and used period available off the shelf steel for parts. I'd love to see some evidence that in 1955-1962 that 3/16 steel rod was commonly sold annealed. A quick "flash plate" is by nature done without copper pre-plate.

Same with the keeper-bars.

You cannot make alloy accurate keeper bars anymore. The exact steel doesnt exist. However you can make keepers with the same carbon content. However for a person who has pickup winding as a hobby, tearing apart a PAF and having the alloy assessed is not fesible. So the best bet is to buy keepers from every where you possibly can, and make one out of common 1010,1018, and 1020+ and see what you like best.

Find Filisterhead screws in online shops and listen to their sound.

Now THAT is something I can agree with!

Actually listening to your pickups! :> There is nothing better than the human ear. I bought screws from 10 different place, did induction tests, and picked what I thought would be the winner and tried it. Turned out that the one I figured would sound best, sounded the worst. The screw I didnt expect sounded great - and it was no where near PAF accurate.

b.

[David Schwab]

I am using A4s from RS Guitarworks. I suppose I could try Mojos screws but (not to dispute) I'm kind of surprised that could have so much impact

I got a bag of screws from one of the members here, and they do sound different from the screws that come with the Stew-Mac kits. You could also see that they were more magnetic. Probably lower carbon content.

In that clip I posted the neck pickup had an A2.

[belwar]

I am using A4s from RS Guitarworks. I suppose I could try Mojos screws but (not to dispute) I'm kind of surprised that could have so much impact

I've got some of the A4 from Roy but I havent tried it yet. It's the same stuff Lindy Fralin uses. I've got a whole crap load of the mojo vintage accurate screws (175 sets I think) that im not using. If you want to try some PM me an address and i'll send you a few sets. If you like em i'll offload them for what I paid for them since they are just sitting in a cabinet gathering dust.

The screws make a large difference because they are really extending the magnetic field right to the strings. It's the part of the pickup that is closest to the string and IMO makes almost a big a change as the magnet.

[kevinT]

I think it's the stew-mac A5 magnet that you're using. IMO it seems that the batch of mags that they acquired seem bright to me from what i can remember when I purchased some years ago. The mix of the alloys might be a little different accentuating the higher frequencies.

As Belwar mentioned, you might try some screws that have larger heads and change to a 1018c for slugs and screws....I'm thinking allparts has some screws with larger heads.

You might also try using a brass spacer, instead of plastic or wood, to generate additional eddy currents. That will knock some the the highs down.

More tension, and more turns per layer, in other words, tighten up your scatter pattern will help too.

[Possum]

...

The StewMac alloys are voiced for darker tones actually. PAFs ARE bright!!! they are not shrill though. Here is what David at Tonequest told me when I was trying to get a take on what HE thinks PAF tone is:

"Some custom builders have gotten the overall TONE of the bridge right, which in its true form is naturally bright, not 'warm.' Others seem to think the bridge should be voiced with softer treble and dominant upper mids - like the '57 Classic, which was voiced this way deliberately. But given our experience with the 6 '59s and all the '59-'62 pickups we tested in both the neck and bridge, the predominant characteristic of the bridge pickups was bright, clear, harmonically rich and detailed, with a bloom and dynamic response to pick attack that has not been truly duplicated in any replica PAFs we have heard (and I'm positive we've heard enough)."

My suggestion is get hold of an alnico 3 magnet, in general they are the darkest but not always, I have some rough cast A3 that is really bright but in a nice way.

If you are using PE from Mojo that stuff is very bright wire and not very suitable for humbuckers. Try some poly insulated wire, its a warmer darker sounding wire.

[SteikBacon]

How about wrapping coppertape around the coils?? I´ve done that during experiments... works fine to cut away the top. You can leave it open (like a horseshoe) or let there be connection all the way around.

[kevinT]

The StewMac alloys are voiced for darker tones actually. PAFs ARE bright!!! they are not shrill though. Here is what David at Tonequest told me when I was trying to get a take on what HE thinks PAF tone is:

"Some custom builders have gotten the overall TONE of the bridge right, which in its true form is naturally bright, not 'warm.' Others seem to think the bridge should be voiced with softer treble and dominant upper mids - like the '57 Classic, which was voiced this way deliberately. But given our experience with the 6 '59s and all the '59-'62 pickups we tested in both the neck and bridge, the predominant characteristic of the bridge pickups was bright, clear, harmonically rich and detailed, with a bloom and dynamic response to pick attack that has not been truly duplicated in any replica PAFs we have heard (and I'm positive we've heard enough)."

My suggestion is get hold of an alnico 3 magnet, in general they are the darkest but not always, I have some rough cast A3 that is really bright but in a nice way.

If you are using PE from Mojo that stuff is very bright wire and not very suitable for humbuckers. Try some poly insulated wire, its a warmer darker sounding wire.

Hmmm. I'll have to wind a bucker with a stew-mac mag to refresh my memory. ..It was a while ago. I do remember the screws as being dark.

As for tone, that is Tonequest's opinion on what a PAF sounds like. And I take it with a grain of salt. Look how easy it is to simply adjust the EQ on your amp to emphasize certain frequencies. The tone can be like night and day. Additionally, a Les Paul with a PAF will sound different running it through a Fender amp then if you're playing through a Marshall....you see...it's all one's preference in what they want their PAF to sound like.

Do you know who makes mojo's wire?

[Possum]

...

David at TQ had that Vintage Checkout guy send over like 14 sets of PAFs for them to check out so he got a good earfull of PAF-ology. In general they ARE bright, there are some muddy ones but probably bad magnets, shorted turns etc. The brightness is an advantage, you can't really put brightness back in a muddy bucker.

I tried the copper tape deal grounded, it didn't do enough for me, very little in fact, I was kind of surprised it didn't take more edge off.

I think the black wire from Mojo is old Elektrisola stuff, do they still have it? That stuff is too fat, its way oversize 42, real bright stuff and it doesn't want to stretch. Makes good strat stuff used properly.