5E3 + Effects?

[overdrive]

The question...does a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe type amplifier work (1) well; (2) OK; or (3) lousy with gain-oriented effects like Rangemasters, Tubescreamers & Fuzz Faces?

Reason for asking...have heard it both ways. Some say overdrives & fuzz pedals can enhance the tone of a 5E3 while others maintain that the inherent design of the amplifier makes the combination problematic and/or unnecessary.

Since a 5E3 is known to overdrive early, is there enough clean headroom at the lower volume settings to effectively run these types of effects OR should pedals like overdrives & fuzzes be avoided when using a tweed-style Deluxe?

[Chuck H]

Not to be disrespectful, but this question is sort of like asking whether blue is a better color than red.?.

You can do DIFFERENT things with a 5e3 and a boost/distortion pedal than you can with just a 5e3. Will the clean headroom be enough? Well, that depends on how much volume you need. Also, many players intentionally use a boost pedal in front of a 5e3 to intentionally smash through the headroom. So a pedal, and natural tube OD aren't mutually exclusive. Meaning that your not limited by the amps clean watts when using a pedal for more distortion.

Overall it just feels like this is a question about the best way to use gear. And the answer, as it applies to guitar amps, is that whatever gets YOUR tone and doesn't blow up the equipement is proper.

JM2C

Chuck

[overdrive]

Not to be disrespectful, but this question is sort of like asking whether blue is a better color than red.?.
Chuck

More along the lines of 'if a (viable) range of blue were preferable to overall red'...red being utterly trashy-sounding distortion.

Overall it just feels like this is a question about the best way to use gear. And the answer, as it applies to guitar amps, is that whatever gets YOUR tone and doesn't blow up the equipement is proper.
JM2C
Chuck

Thanks for the insights on preferential tone & amp level protocols. When this query was run by an acquaintance with a tweed Bassman, he mentioned that some gain-related effects seem to work better with certain amps, notably those with a tad more wattage than say, a Champ... it had something to do with *gasp* available clean headroom. Power-wise, a Deluxe falls somewhere in between these two designs so he suggested maybe asking others who own a Deluxe...being that some folks probably run gain-type fxs while others consider it a detriment to the natural tonal range of the amp, keeping in mind that taste (like everything) is subjective.

[Chuck H]

Cool... The standard "club" method for gigging is to choose an amp with adequate clean volume and then use a distortion pedal that is NOT pushing more gain into the amp for distortion tones, or a channel switching amp with a distortion channel that, when a master volume is used, also isn't pushing the power tubes into distortion.

In this capacity a 5e3 is notorious for comming up a hair short because it doesn't have the clean volume.

Many other methods are used though. Some goose up their 5e3 with more voltage (solid state rectifier usually), tube swaps, more efficient speakers, etc... To get the clean volume they need and then they use a distortion pedal in the same way outlined above. Others are only satisfied with the real tone of an overdriven 5e3 and use the amp stock or even seek out less effecient speakers so they can run the amp dimed. These players often use the volume control on their guitar in combination with a "bright cap" across the guitars volume control to approximate clean-ish tones at lower than ideal volumes. But to be fair, some amps have more similar volumes clean and over driven than others. The 5e3 circuit is very good in this respect and thats one reason it's become so popular.

The mothod I use is similar to the latter. But I add a speaker driven "line out" to my 20 watt amp and run that to an A/B switch used as an ON/OFF switch to the PA. Then when I turn down the guitars volume, or evn if I need a little boost for soloing, I can punch in a little juice from the PA. My point is that there are many inventive setups used by players to get them what they want at the right volume level.

It is true that some amps handle preamp driven pedals better than others. Sometimes this is specific to certain amps and pedals but more often it's a more general quality that an amp has or doesn't. This is usually only noticed if the amp in question is being over driven by the pedal. When the pedal is not used to increase input gain it makes little difference from amp to amp. The 5e3 circuit likes to be over driven by preamp pedals just fine.

Chuck

[mbratch]

The short answer is: it depends upon the guitar, the pedal, your setup, and your taste.

I use a 5E3 with OD pedals and find that it works very well. I'm currently using some Barber pedals and an Xotic BB Preamp for lead tones. My configuration is that the 5E3 is mic'ed so I have it set just on the edge of break-up at base level.

So if in your current setup you have the amp set under the strong break-up point, then it may work well for you. You'll just have to try it.