Mini-bucker for Luna Athena

[big_teee]

I have customer, friend that has this guitar.
He likes the bridge pickup, doesn't like the neck pickup.
He says its too dark sounding and it doesn't match well with the bridge.
The Bridge measures somewhere around 10.5k, neck around 6.5k DCR.
What do I need to do to make sure this new Pickup is bright enough?
I was planning on putting all the 42SPN wire I can safely put on it.
It comes with the A5 Magnet, I was planning on using it.
Any suggestions and ideas will be appreciated.
I've read all the other mini-bucker threads.
I'm looking for anything specific for his guitar.
Oh yeah I don't have access to the guitar.
I'm going to make the pickup and send it to him.
So it's a blind one shot deal!
One other problem the Athena has buffed matt type pickup covers.
I'm going to try and buff the new chrome cover with Scotch Bright.
I tried this on some old covers I had laying around I think it will work.
Any Ideas on that will be appreciated also!
He has ordered me the Mojo Mini Humbucker kit.

Thanks in advance!!!
Terry

[big_teee]

Don't Everyone Jump at once!
Terry

[David Schwab]

It might not be the way the original was wound. It might just be a dark sounding pickup due to other factors, like the magnets or the materials. So you will have to wind a test pickup with the new parts, to your specs, and see how it sounds. Then you will have an idea where to go.

If you don't want the new pickup to be too bassy, don't wind as much as you can fit on there. Stick to something on the clean and bright side. The DiMarzio Humbucker from Hell is supposed t be bright like a single coil. It has 3850 turns of 42 on each coil. As another example the notes I have for a Gretsch Filtertrons is 2000 turns of 43 per coil. So wind something on the low side, like 3000-4000 turns per coil.

I have a FirstAct garage master, which had the darkest sounding pickups I ever heard. They were awful. The were caked in wax, had weak alnico magnets, a chrome plated open top brass cover, and a decorative plastic insert on the top which ended up putting a lot of space between the coils and strings. So while it looked nice, it was a bad design tone wise.

I wound some new pickups with better parts, and now the guitar is twangy, almost like a Tele.

[big_teee]

It might not be the way the original was wound. It might just be a dark sounding pickup due to other factors, like the magnets or the materials. So you will have to wind a test pickup with the new parts, to your specs, and see how it sounds. Then you will have an idea where to go.

If you don't want the new pickup to be too bassy, don't wind as much as you can fit on there. Stick to something on the clean and bright side. The DiMarzio Humbucker from Hell is supposed t be bright like a single coil. It has 3850 turns of 42 on each coil. As another example the notes I have for a Gretsch Filtertrons is 2000 turns of 43 per coil. So wind something on the low side, like 3000-4000 turns per coil.

Ok, well I think I can modify a humbucker pickup ring, so I can mount it in one of my guitars to test it before I send it to him. The guitar is a semi-hollow body. Would that make it sound any darker? Also the cover on his pickup may be interfering.
I wonder what the big increase is on the odd-ball pickups these days. It doesn't seem like anyone wants me to wind anything normal.

[RedHouse]

...I wonder what the big increase is on the odd-ball pickups these days. It doesn't seem like anyone wants me to wind anything normal.

I hear that!.

[copperheadroads]

i agree .........the only pickup i have not been asked to build is a F-150 . but i probably can ,my dad has enough parts kicking around

[big_teee]

What about the cover? any ideas on that. He's supposed to send me a picture of the matt covers up close, any ideas on getting a matt finish from a chrome cover.
The problem with the mini is limited parts availability. I told him if it was a full size bucker, the sky was the limit. I have some of the old chrome over brass that I took off of pickups in the past. I first tried to scratch them with steel wool. It wouldn't scratch it. The only thing I found was the Scotch brite, that you use on pots and pans.
Terry

[Peter Naglitsch]

Getting more than 6-7 Kohms on a Mini means that they probably used 43 wire on the bridge pickup. if a 6K neck pickup sounds dark, maybe you also should check the volume pot used in that guitar if it is a 250K pot it might help to change to a 500K or 1M pot. For the neck pickup, you might need to step up to a ceramic magnet and keep the resistance low. Finding a magnet that fit might not be the easiest thing for a mini, but if you have been doing pickup work for a while you usually have a bow of old magnets from god knows were and you might find one that fit. I have ceramics that fit with a custom made steel bar. That night be better. Also go hard on the mismatching of the coils to bring out a bit of sparkle for the neck pickup.

OR, maybe you/your friend should try a Firebird type of mini instead, They should bring up the spank in that neck pickup.

[David Schwab]

It doesn't seem like anyone wants me to wind anything normal.

What's "normal"? We can't keep slavishly copying someone else's 50 year old pickup designs. Everything you make should be original in some way. Otherwise it's like a bunch of people sitting in a room, wearing the same clothes, and all playing the same music. Boring!

Obviously "normal" didn't work on that guitar.

[big_teee]

What's "normal"? We can't keep slavishly copying someone else's 50 year old pickup designs. Everything you make should be original in some way. Otherwise it's like a bunch of people sitting in a room, wearing the same clothes, and all playing the same music. Boring!

Obviously "normal" didn't work on that guitar.

I think the guitar would have looked better with full sized pickups, but they chose the mini route. To complicate things further it's a semi-hollow guitar that has no rear access. That's the beauty of a Les Paul or a Strat, at least you can get to everything.
So me being the nice guy that I am. I said that I would build him something if he would furnish the parts. At least he is the one that's going to have to work thru the pickup hole and F holes.
Terry

[RedHouse]

...any ideas on getting a matt finish from a chrome cover...

You're in for some work there, you can try chemicals but they usually dis-color the metal, sometimes the customer will like that look (aged/distressed).

I'd suggest another approach which has worked for me. You'll need a Bead-Blaster which is a sand-blasting machine loaded with glass bead medium. If you don't have one you can find a local autoshop or machine shop that has one, autoshops commonly use them to clean parts such as aluminum castings etc.
(autoshop will usually let you do it for free, machine shop will always charge you money and do it for you)

If they are Nickel plated covers you can (sometimes) get away with just a light (very light) bead-blasting to create the matte finish, I'm talking having the air pressure down fairly low and holding the nozzle about 12" away.

With Chrome plate finish you can break or partially remove the chrome with bead-blasting action which will leave the cover with a patchy two-tone look.

Understand that Chrome is a very very thin coating over Nickel, even a Brass pickup cover is Nickel plated then Chrome over that, also understanding that Chrome is a Blue'ish tinted material where Nickel is a white/yellow'ish tinted material well therein lies the problem.

When you plate something, the shinny surface you see is actually the smoothnes of the underlying base metal, it is highly polished ...then plated, look here for a basic explanation. This fact is the part I hate about plating, the job is all in the prep. Ideally if you want a matte finish you would lightly bead-blast the metal, then plate, but sometimes you can get away with bead-blasting after plating.

Another option is re-plating the covers yourself, I've used this "Copy Chrome" kit from Caswell (in the US) and re-plated vintage parts, covers, and bridges before. The proceedure is to de-plate the existing finish by reversing the electrodes in a pickle bath, then bead-blast the covers and re-plate. Caswell has a book available that has all the instructions in it, and a forum like this for getting peer help.

Probably the best/easiest way to go would be to find someone who can provide Nickel covers in the raw, then you just bead-blast them and you're done.

It's a lot of extra work, I've been there, good luck with that.

[big_teee]

Thanks, Brad for all the Ideas on the cover. His covers and the whole guitar has the matt look but it's not like a matt finish like on a rifle scope.
Its got a stripe grain to it, more like a buffing mark. That's why I came up with just taking the shine off with scotch brite. I may send it to him and let him screw it up instead of me. Only thing it needs to be done while the cover is off.
If we can make it sound good enough maybe he will look over a few cosmetic issues.
Isn't it Ironic? We have the aged look, where you take a great looking new guitar and beat the hell out of it to make it look old, or you have the I can't make it look pretty enough approach! My project at hand seems to be the latter!
Terry

[RedHouse]

Thanks, Brad for all the Ideas on the cover. His covers and the whole guitar has the matt look but it's not like a matt finish like on a rifle scope.
Its got a stripe grain to it, more like a buffing mark.

Ahh yes, they call that a Brushed finish, which is still done before plating, usually by either an actual fine brass wheel or by a fine grain belt sanding machine (usually the latter) then plated.

[David Schwab]

I think the guitar would have looked better with full sized pickups, but they chose the mini route.

I thought the same thing.

To complicate things further it's a semi-hollow guitar that has no rear access. That's the beauty of a Les Paul or a Strat, at least you can get to everything.
So me being the nice guy that I am. I said that I would build him something if he would furnish the parts. At least he is the one that's going to have to work thru the pickup hole and F holes.
Terry

That's never any fun. I've had a few of those instruments. I did a lot of rewiring to the Gibson EB-2D I had and it was a real pain!

[RedHouse]

What's "normal"? We can't keep slavishly copying someone else's 50 year old pickup designs. Everything you make should be original in some way. Otherwise it's like a bunch of people sitting in a room, wearing the same clothes, and all playing the same music. Boring!..

Well this picture sure comes to mind, we can each get a matrix style overcoat, close down the kitchen and start eating Soilulent Green while we PAF ourselves into the hereafter.