Just curious if there are any other youngish guys or even gal techs or shop owners

[AudioWorks]

Ive noticed a few posts on a couple sites mentioning how the pro audio repair industry (maybe all electronic repair) might be in trouble because, among other reasons, many of the gurus doing this grew up with tubes all over and in a time when tube testers were inside most groceries, and now alot of that group is getting to retirement with no one to carry the torch maybe.

I'm 26 and had to teach myself most of what i know. My only lasting mentor was an audio electronics teacher when i took audio engineering who i really really liked. He didnt teach anything about vintage audio but gave me a good electronics foundation to begin learning on my own. So i started reading and building circuits and working at an electronics store. Being a musician def helped as well. I then started working at 19 at shop after shop trying to learn more hands on which was extremely difficult because no one had the time or want to intern/teach anyone. The first 2 places told me i didnt have enough hands on exp. yet but by the fourth shop i had really developed the hands on troubleshooting job skills which are of most importance (as well as my might fine book learnins)

Now with my own shop for 4 years ive hired young and older techs in the past to work at my place and iv found that some of the younger guys didnt know what they were getting into and i would spend a deal of time showing them proper troubleshooting skills to go along with thur fancy college degrees. But the older guys on average had better troubleshooting even though they sometimes didnt have the technical degrees. I Kinda feel obligated to intern/teach young less exp. guys if i can make the time, and i usually can figure up ways to make them productive while they are still being taught.

I was just wondering if there were many other under 30 shop owners or experienced techs on here. Or even lady technicians of any age, so speak up if thats you or if you have any fine comments on the subject.

And im always looking for any good advice from other shop owners as ways to keep it successful and long lasting and any success/failure stories to learn from. I plan to continue this as a life long career cause i enjoy it so much. (Ive even bought individual health insurance as of recently)

[AudioWorks]

Obviously im a tad bored

[Enzo]

yeah, get back to work.

You discovered for yourself why a lot of shops just can't take in interns or people needing training. If I take in a green kid, I spend my entire time teaching. I don;t get the work done I used to get done when I was alone. SO having that interen does not help me get more done in the shop.

Your old guys tended to be better troubleshooters because they had more experience. I don;t really think it is because of the era they grew up in so much. Go back and check on those green young kids you had to lead around, and see how much better they perform with 10 years of experience.

COllege degrees are not so much help for a bench tech, unless you mean something like a community college associates degre in electronics repair technology. COllege work is not a lot of practical work, it is fundamentals and abstracts. I'll take the kid who has been fixing amps in his basement for a couple years over a guy with a shiny fresh 2-year vocational college diploma just about every time. That is because the basement kid has a couple years experience, while the school guy has none.


But I do believe in supporting the desire to learn. That is why I spend the hours I do here trying to teach troubleshooting techniques. And here locally, I always take the time to help people learn or give them parts. But it is one thing to host a visitor for a little while versus having one in the shop all day long.

Good luck.

[tubeswell]

Thanks Enzo - good to know that if I was in the states I could get a job in Michigan ;-0

[AudioWorks]

Enzo my sweet Enzo. You do help alot, I need to make more time to talk on here and see if i can offer some more on here. Maybe im just to busy teaching new techs, That or answering the phones ENDLESSLY, no we dont do warrenty work for xyz, no we arent affliated with Amesterdam Audio Workers, no i dont want to rent a water dispenser, yes im happy with my telephone system, no i cant drive to your church to make sure your setting up your amp right after i fix it...
Question, what would you say your ratio of of calls with people saying they will bring a peice by versus how many that actuelly do.
Sometimes mine gets rather high im not counting the ones that say nevermind after they hear its not gonna ever be 10 bucks to fix, or that say im to far or they might be around that area someday.
I feel i lose alot of time to badly wasted telephone useage and i just cant justify hireing an office guy/manager. i just noticed alot of shops lose all their money to a manager that doesnt bring in any profit. Anytime i seam to ask a tech to answer the phone they typically scare off or piss off the customer. So its just got to be me.

[Enzo]

Yep, welcome to the world of be your own boss.

I get those call all day long.
May I speak to the office manager please
This is credit card services, and i want to tell you how you can save a lot on...
Yeah, I need to talk to the person who buys toner
This is a courtesy call (Gee, you are doing me the courtesy of wasting my time? GREAT!)
Our man Nate will be in your area tomorrow, and I just wanted to heads up for you that he will be stopping by to show you how we can save you a lot on health coverage expenses. WOuld about 11AM be OK?
Hello, I need to talk to the person who handles the natural gas account.
Hi, I represent the local (high scool band boosters, police, firemen, veterans group, etc etc)and we know we can count on YOU to help us out.
Hi, I need to talk to whoever buys your flourescent bulbs.


Unless you were just about to pick up the phone and call someone for toner, light bulbs, insurance or whatever the hell is for sale, THEY ARE WASTING YOUR TIME. Don't be afraid to just hang up the phone. And if brusk isn;t your thing, don;t engage them. I can save you a lot on your credit card processing. No, no you can;t. click. Why do you say that? Because I don;t TAKE credit cards. Oh, well can I ask why not? No, you may not.

I want to help you reduce your health care costs. No. Well who is your current insurance carrier? Well, that would be none of your business now, would it?

Our records show it is about time to reorder toner for your copier. Really? And what make and model copier do those records say I have?

We can save you a lot on your flourescent tube purchases... Really? How illuminating, goodbye.


Don't you want to support the local fire fighters who risk their lives to protect you? We don;t respond to phone solicitations, thank you. click.


Customers? Yeah, a few of them manage to get through the cold callers. I get a few tire kickers, we all do, but I don;t think I get all that many who say I'll be over and then disappear from the face of the earth. I want to get them into the shop. I tell them that they can have my quick once over for free. I won;t charge them $30 to tell them they should take it elsewhere. They like that thought. All that means is a countertop inspection. PLug it in and see what it does. When a guy says on the phone that his amp hums, you never really know what he means. Is it real hum, or is it a reverb feeding back, or is it some sort of whining tone from a digital circuit, microphonic tube ringing? If I can see it, hear it, lay my hands on it, then I can better diagnose it to tell the customer better what it needs. They like that I am willing to do that up front, and we are all on the same page, and I can point out things we would do for him. PLUS the thing is already been lugged into the place, so it is more likely to stay and get fixed.

Classic call: what do you charge an hour? I don;t just say $60 an hour. I won't lead them around and try to avoid the question, but I do usually respond to that with "Well, tell me what it is doing first." Or "what does it need?" Because they have no idea how long a job will take. If you let them just chart the varuious shop rates around towm they will stop either at the lowest hourly or the last guy on the list. But you and I know that my 1 hour at $60 is cheaper than the other guy's 3 hours at $45. SO I ask them what they need to have done and tell them a reasonable range of cost without breaking it down into how many hours. I think if more people finish the call with a clear idea of what it will wind up costing, more of them will show up. Yes there are always people who don;t understand that the repair will cost more than $10.


I know what you mean about doing the phone yourself. I used to have a tech who went through life thinking conversations were something to win. I quickly realized he shouldn;t be my phone "face."

It can be hard to justify an office manager - did someone say "intern?" True, the manager doesn't directly generate income. But when an organization reaches a certain size of volume, a manager takes all those non-productive activities off the people who DO generate income. If I have someone sitting at a $60 per hour bench, if he spends an hour answering calls, filing paperwork, ordering parts, and so on, that is $60 less in your till. If a manager does all those things, that fees up the tech to make the extra $60. Now we have to think you are not PAYING the manager $60 an hour, otherwise my resume is attached hereto. And clearly no one hires a manager to back up one tech, so the value of such a staff position is more than one to one on the hourly rate.

EVer call Loud Technologies to order parts after 3PM their time? "All our representatives are in a staff meeting." Leave a message or call back or whatever. They aren't in a meeting, they just don;t take calls after 3. Gives them a couple hours to get everything done without interruption. That is a trendy business concept that has been around a long time - establish certain no-call times. Maybe an office closes the switchboard from 10AM-noon or whatever. Then the employees can count on that daily block of time where there will be no interruptions. Not as easy to do in retail, but it is an idea to consider or adapt.

[micri5446]

nice thread...all i can say is treat your clients how you would like to be treated and you shall reap the rewards. we do no advertising here and in 10 years i have a solid client base.
please keep teaching the kids how to do this thing we call electronic repair cause it is a dying art (think clock makers).

i'm 40 and have been in the industry since 1990..went to a trade school..apprenticed in various forms of electronics( video games, home stereo car stereo and always musical electronics (my parents owned a music store when i was a kid and i remember my mom sitting me there on the bench with a hundred cables and i went through and replaces broken ends,wire breaks ect..point being i knew how to solder before any classmates in trade school...thankx mom....

ithe only thing that scares me is that most techs now do not or cannot troubleshoot to component level. please teach em correct..lol

as far as phone i use call id and if i do not recognize # my machine has a message in the effect that we are working on the bench and will return calls in a half hour....everyone who is serious will leave a message..

peace......mike

[darrellcheng]

Started amp repair when I was 21, found an old univox u45b dead and brought it back to life. Then I went to look at a Twin on Craigslist and the seller was an amp repair guy, also an ex-deadhead. He taught me how to fix a Twin and eventually I became his helper. Worked with him for about a year in Brooklyn on a lot of different amps, some really old ones, learned a lot and now I just work a 9-5, and do some occasional repairs on the side for friends and people I know, and tinkering with broken craigslist / trash finds and reselling them if I can, or just amassing a large supply of old amps/parts. I'm 23 now, wish I fixed amps for a living but I don't think it pays as well as asbestos inspecting.

[darrellcheng]

nice thread...all i can say is treat your clients how you would like to be treated and you shall reap the rewards. we do no advertising here and in 10 years i have a solid client base.
please keep teaching the kids how to do this thing we call electronic repair cause it is a dying art (think clock makers).

i'm 40 and have been in the industry since 1990..went to a trade school..apprenticed in various forms of electronics( video games, home stereo car stereo and always musical electronics (my parents owned a music store when i was a kid and i remember my mom sitting me there on the bench with a hundred cables and i went through and replaces broken ends,wire breaks ect..point being i knew how to solder before any classmates in trade school...thankx mom....

ithe only thing that scares me is that most techs now do not or cannot troubleshoot to component level. please teach em correct..lol

as far as phone i use call id and if i do not recognize # my machine has a message in the effect that we are working on the bench and will return calls in a half hour....everyone who is serious will leave a message..

peace......mike

Mike, looks like we're both in long island...if you ever need an extra hand, let me know.

[micri5446]

Mike, looks like we're both in long island...if you ever need an extra hand, let me know.

i might need that soon as my tech is going to california to make music soon so i might be looking......
pm me and ill give you my website and myspace info...if i look for an apprentice, i usally post on myspace so that would be the best.
peace...................mike

[Wilder Amplification]

I don't QUITE run a shop but I'm 30 and have been building tube guitar amps since I was 17 (started general electronics at 12).

Electronic troubleshooting is in fact becoming a dying art. Moreover, it seems the dumbing down of America is starting to become the "American way" now and people have zero interest to actually "learn" something. I guess I've just always been a gluten for information so I've always been the exception to those people. Not sure if my upbringing had anything to do with that or not as I was always curious about things since I can remember.

Good to see other young ones out there "keeping the torch lit".

[Enzo]

Some people have curiosity and some don't. SOme poeple can deal in abstract and some can.t. SOme people are problem solvers and some are not.

You can never see electricity, everything we do is abstract. Every aspect of the circuits we work on is something you have to have in your head. Unseen phenomena are only inferred by the readings we take. Troubleshooting takes a lot of reasoning, a lot of analytical thinking.

And there is tool sense. You can of course learn, but some people have a natural understanding of tools. One time a long while ago, our kid had a friend over. They were maybe 8-9 years old. They had some sort of Hungry Hippo game or some other action toy, and it broke. This kid popped the botom off, looked over the mechanisn, decided the rubber band needed to go back over some hook, and immediately searched his surroundings for something that would serve as a tool to fish the rubber band spring through a small space and over a hook.

Not anything huge if you or I faced the repiar challenge, but these kids don;t have that experience. It was fascinating to watch this guy's mental processes churning. He had natural tool sense, and I was amazed. I told the kid's mom he had a natural gift. She looked at me like I was from outer space. Hard to describe, but he was perfectly at home reaching for things that could be used for the purpose.

If you follow the engineering magazines, it comes and goes, but they often lament there is little interest in electronics among the youth. How can we interest kids in electrical engineering? Hobby magazines are all but gone Nuts and Volts and not much else on the news stand. What used to be the great breeding ground of amateur electronics - HAm Radio - sems to be a shell of its former self. Kids would rather play on the internet than on the air waves.

Part of the problem is that now days ANYTHING you might want in electronics already exists. 50 years ago if it wasn't a TV or a radio, you pretty much had to build it. "How to build a sensor to tell you if the lights are still on out in the garage." What is there left to build? and things we might have made simple a while back are now available for a couple bucks with color displays, or god forbid, now just another iphone app.

DUmbing down? Maybe. WHat I see from my old fogie perspective is a generation of people who must have constant amusement. Have to have their nose in some portable electronic thing their entire waking life. If they are not yakking on the phone 24/7, they are staring at it playing a game or looking at pictures or watching movies or TV. Or playing computer video games WHILE yakking and texting. In my humble analysis this service all interruptions approach to life really boils down to one thing. Think about it. We drive one handed so we can yak non-stop, we text to someone across the room, we take cell phone photosw to send cross town in real time. In short, we have turned "hanging out at the mall" into a full time activity. We no longer need the mall itself.

[gbono]

I've worked in the test equipment world for 20 years and now that most manufacturing (and the taxes that were normally spent in the US) is conducted offshore - there is no need for techs or institutions that train them. Very sad situation that has been going on for decades. The trades -machinists,welders, plumbing, electrical, automotive are still barely hanging on. Sacramento State had (has?) a EE program where you apprentice in the trade - you graduate with an EE and as a journey man.

Moral of the story - learn chinese.

[Enzo]

Here, someone in Houston needs you.
• View topic - Amp Tech Recommendations in Houston

Go over there and tell them Enzo sent you.

I don't know that I;d agree that the manufacturing world held the majority of electronic tech jobs. A lot of EE stuff, engineering positions may be offshore these days, but I always associate electronics technicians with maintenance and repair. As far as I know there is no good way to send those functions offshore. SOmeone has to install and maintain, telephone, security, cable and satellite systems, ever more complex environmental controls (translated: HVAC). people complain that TVs are disposable. Yes $100 TVs are. But I don;t see a lot of those $1500 HDTVs being thrown away. Having spent some time in hospitals lately, I see tons of electronics stuff there, and NONE of that is cheap or dispoable. Automotive systems are more and more electronic. Mr. Goodwrench needs Mr.Goodtech to help him out. We still have an avionics program locally.

There are indeed fewer and fewer jobs for techs, but there is still a need for some.

[gbono]

Having spent some time in hospitals lately,

Hey, you better not be getting sick on us