Millennium bypass...as good as true BP?

[daz]

Is it truly as transparent as true bypass? I hear degradation in pedals that even use buffers, so i've always seeked out TB or built my own with TB. But from my reading i'm hearing Millennium BP is good enough that you couldn't possibly hear a difference. What doth thou say?

[R.G.]

I "invented" it, to the extent that it was invented. The original posting is still there (albeit updated) at my web site, Geofex.com. So I guess I have standing for the question.

The signal switching part of it **is** one variant of true bypass, so there is not and can never be a difference between the Millenium and "true bypass".

What the Millenium Bypass does is to use the output of the effect, which is disconnected from the signal path in bypass, as a means to light an LED for indication, while using only a DPDT switch, making a 3PDT switch unnecessary. At the time I came up with this, 3PDT switches were $15 and up. That price has changed...

The precursor to this was one variant of the Ratt, which used a bipolar for the LED switch. My minor contribution was to run the turn-on current down so low that there's no possibility of causing a switching pop.

[daz]

Well, like usual that was over my head, but what i never ally thought of till now is that effects with DPDT true bypass cannot have a LED. So those TB effect of the old days had no LED i guess. I just don't recall that far back but i don't see how they can do it with DPDT. Thats where the 3PDT you mentioned comes in, but i never saw an effect that had that so i guess i never had a TB effect.

So while what you said was over my head, what i think i DID get from it is that you basically figured out a way to use a DPDT to get a bypass scenario that is NOT true bypass because it needs some of the switching potential for the LED, but is as transparent as TB because the amount of resistance is so high it can't make any audible difference due to loading. Is that about right?

[frus]

no, the input AND the output of the effect are actually physically disconnected from the signal path
the LED is just switched over to effect out when in bypass, and uses its output impedance to light (or something, it was over my head also )

[daz]

no, the input AND the output of the effect are actually physically disconnected from the signal path

That is the definition of true bypass, so then why isn't it? I assume because the LED is still connected to the signal path even when bypassed?

[daz]

Ok, I think i see now. In the image linked below it shows that it IS true bypass. It's just that theres a LED on when active and it is turned off when in bypass via a control with that is shorted to the board out. But it IS ture bypass in that the signal is 100% disconnected from the device wghen bypassed. the only difference between true bypass and this is this controls a LED w/o needing dedicated switch contacts. So when it's said this is NOT true bypass, thats a bit of a misnomer because it is actually TB, but with a LED circuit that TB till this couldn't have unless theres a 3P switch. Millenium Bypass 2 gif by roballey | Photobucket

[Mark Hammer]

The MBP makes use of the fact that the volume pot provides a useful path to ground for the LED subcircuit. The switch itself disconnects the input and output jacks from the effect circuit.

Much of the to-do about TB stems from the shortcomings of pedals in the 60's and 70's that only used SPDT switches and ended up loding down the signal because their input impedances were not high enough. Many contemporary pedals provide high-impedance input buffers, such that using a SPDT to select between the buffer and the effect out really is sufficient...as long as you don't need to switch a status LED.

[frus]

That is the definition of true bypass, so then why isn't it?

I meant to say that it IS tru ebypass, didn't make myself clear, sorry

[cjlectronics]

Check this youtube video out. I think it is a good example of when true bypass works and when it doesn't.

[Mick Bailey]

I've been using the millennium bypass for quite a few years - ever since I read R.G's original article and I've found it to be totally transparent. But then again, I know a person who can 'hear' the tonal differences between the pickup selector positions on a Les Paul when it's unplugged and strummed acoustically......

[daz]

I've been using the millennium bypass for quite a few years - ever since I read R.G's original article and I've found it to be totally transparent. But then again, I know a person who can 'hear' the tonal differences between the pickup selector positions on a Les Paul when it's unplugged and strummed acoustically......

Even if your ears ARE eric johnson ears, no one could hear a difference because there IS none between MB and TB except when the effect is on. I can't imagine that either, but when bypassed the signal goes straight from in jack to out and nothing in the circuit is in any way connected. Looking at that drawing it's exactly the same as TB when off. So anyone that says they can hear it is apparently either experiencing placebo effect of they're hearing bad switch contacts.

[daz]

Check this youtube video out. I think it is a good example of when true bypass works and when it doesn't.

I get that, but i use pretty short cables so it's not a concern. Plus a little loss wouldn't necassarily be a bad thing. I once did a gig where i ended up without a short 1' patch cable that i usually used to go from a small rack to my amp. And i used wireless so that was the only capacitance happening. All i had to use in it's place was a spare 20' cable and i remember getting the best tone i had gotten with that rig due to the slight top end roll off. However, i did an A/B test with a few tube screamers and a clone i have, the clone being millenium bypass and i could w/o a doubt hear the opposite of what i should have with one of the screamers. It sounded slightly muddy in the lows vs a straight cord. I only used a 2' cord to go from pedal to the amp, so i can't imagine that extra 2' made it noticably muddier. I guess if i were running a lot of cord then i might be better off with a buffered pedal, which i assume the TS7 that i tested is.

[Mick Bailey]

That's the point I'm making; people hear what they want to hear - even if there is no difference in sound. There's always the psychology of knowing one pedal is MB and another is TB, and that alone will cause some individuals to hear differences and argue in favour of one or another.

[J M Fahey]

placebo effect