F-spaced vs. not

[Matt T.]

I have asked a couple of winders to build me an F-spaced (aka trem-spaced) bridge humbucker and both have told me that they either can't get parts or that they can't put a particular wind on the bobbins they get because they get too full.

Since the F-spaced p'up is physically larger, I was surprised that the bobbins couldn't fit as much wire on them as a regular spaced p'up. It seemed to me that the only way that could be the case is if the trem-spaced bobbins were 'fatter', which would mean that the inside windings would be farther away from the polepieces. Having the inner windings farther away just (intuitively I suppose) seems bad but that may be completely wrong.

So my questions are: Is it more difficult to make a trem-spaced p'up sound good? Do trem-spaced p'ups tend to have a different tone if all else is equal (which it never is but...you get the idea) and if so...what differences? Does anybody here make trem-spaced humbuckers? The 'recipe' that I have been digging lately is basically an A5 PAF that is wound until completely full...like 9.5K or so...but I've had at least one guy tell me he can't make that p'up using the trem-spaced parts he gets.

[David Schwab]

I'm sure someone here who actually makes these things will have a definitive answer... but as someone who has installed plenty of F spaced pickups... I can't imagine there's that much of a difference. The spacing is not all that much wider.

I just made a pickup for a 9 string guitar... it has a 9 cm (3.5") string spacing. It has blade pole pieces. The customer plays metal and wanted a very hot pickup... so I wound 6,000 turns of 43GA on each coil. Now granted this pickup is a totally different size and shape from a standard humbucker, but the bobbin dimensions were not that different, just wider, and I sure didn't have a problem winding a lot of wire.. if anything it gave me more room.

I can see maybe that since the poles are wider there might be a bit less room, but not that much... or you go with thinner wire.

Sounds like the guy who you talked to didn't know where to get the parts.

[Matt T.]

Thanks David. One guy said he couldn't get parts (or maybe he just didn't like the parts he could get) and the other said he could do trem-spaced but couldn't use the same 'recipe' that he had used on a p'up I bought from him before (~9.5K A5 overwound PAF-type).

Right now I'm using a Duncan Custom 5 which is ~14K and A5 (the only specs I know of it) but it's middy/compressed; not open enough. Not bad for legato leads but not so great for anything else. I have a couple of ~9.5K A5 humbuckers (like a way, way overwound PAF) in regular spacing in the bridge of 2 of my Les Pauls and wanted something similar for a dual-hummer Strat.

[David Schwab]

Right now I'm using a Duncan Custom 5 which is ~14K and A5 (the only specs I know of it) but it's middy/compressed; not open enough. Not bad for legato leads but not so great for anything else.

Well I would think so with something wound that hot! The 9-string pickup is similar, but I was surprised how nice is sounds with the coils wired in parallel. It gets a nice snarly stratish tone. it's two good tones. It has a big ass ceramic magnet.

[Stan H]

All of my humbuckers are available in standard or f-spaced. I haven't had any problems winding the same model in either configuration. My Helix is an A5 PAF style humbucker that weighs in at around 10k which I sell about the same amount of in both spacings. My customers say they sound just alike.

-Stan

[Matt T.]

Thanks Stan, I checked your site, nice.

A few of your models raised another question: This Strat uses a 5-way Mega-switch and a wiring scheme that I made up and have never seen before (but I'm sure it's been done because it's quite simple). I'm not sure I can properly explain it (or even understand it ) but I'll try. The #1, #3, and #5 positions are just like a Les Paul. The #2 position (usually the neck/middle combo on a Strat) is the screw coils of both pickups in parallel, then that's in series with the slug coil on the neck p'up. The #4 position (usually the middle/bridge combo on a Strat) is both screw coils in parallel, then that's in series with the slug coil on the bridge p'up. This give 5 different humbucker tones that sort of 'correlate' to the 5 single-coil tones on a Strat. I'm using a Duncan '59n in the neck and it's OK, not great. Any ideas on how to mismatch (or not) the coils on a neck/bridge humbucker pair?

I tend to like the thicker tones as opposed to more hollow tones (eg - prefer Billy G. over J. Page tone).

[Stan H]

Well, I started out a little confused but after reading your post a couple of times, I understand. Position 2 is the full neck humbucker in parallel with the outside coil of the bridge and position 4 is the full bridge humbucker in parallel with the outside coil of the neck. Whew...sometimes it takes me awhile

I don't really understand your question though.

-Stan

[Matt T.]

You have several different winds, some have mismatched coils some don't. Since position #2 and #4 use a non-standard combination of coils, would it be beneficial to use p'ups with mismatched coils and if so, mismatched in what way? Stronger screw coils or stronger slug coils?

FWIW: when you select position #2 or position #4 and tap on the coils with a screwdriver, the screw coils have noticably less output than the one slug coil being used.

[Stan H]

Generally I wind my slug coils hotter. I just think that they sound better that way because of proximity to the bridge. If the customer requests it (sometimes they do), I will wind them the other way around making the screw coil hotter.

-Stan