Rail Pickups low output?

[mcsilvio]

Hi all,
I am new to guitar wiring but not soldering.

I bought this rail pickup for the neck and middle pickup of my strat copy.

http://store.guitarfetish.com/nenemaourhon1.html

i just wired them and they worked but are quiet. noise is at a low level. but the output is quiet! significantly less than the single coils.

now these rails have a metal thing of posts so it looks like a single coil pickup. and i accidentally ripped those off. long story. and i could see that a tiny tiny wire that ran between the coils WAS connected to it but now severed. looks like a coil wire actually. ALSO there was one lead (of four) coming out from the coils wrapping. this severed and i reconnected it using thicker gauge wire. then i put the whole thing back together and that when i found that the pickups work fine but sound very quiet.

my question is, is it possible that by one of my errors i have made them perform quietly? or is it a matter of "if they work then they work"
because the original single coil at the bridge is MUCH louder.

thanks,
marco.

[Magnut]

It sounds at though some of the coil wires are shorting together. So the signal is not going the full distance through the coil but shortcutting somewhere. That would cause the problem you describe.

Can you take the larger gauge patch wire out and resolder the two coil wires together again? You may need to carefully unwind the wire one wrap and do this. Then cover the solder joint with some scotch tape or fingernail polish. It is important that the new solder does not have any pointy bits. This will dig into the coil and short it.

[mcsilvio]

This really sounds right to me. I've got a feeling. the thing is: these rails have a plate along the top to look like posts from a single coil pickup. and this ripped off (i accidentally did) and i could tell that one of the wrap strands was attached to this and my accident disconnected it. and the strand came from a groove going along the centre top of the pickup (under the plate). if anyone has any further ideas let me know. tomorrow im gonna try and fix this stuff.

thanks for all your help!
m

[spud1950]

You may need to carefully unwind the wire one wrap and do this.

I doubt that you'll be able to do that.According to the GFS site:

" Each Neovin is precision assembled and vacuum epoxied for noise free performance, for years to come."

[Sweetfinger]

If the output is very low and very bright, the pickup may have an open coil. Seeing broken wire is never good! An open coil pickup will sometimes work due to capacitance. The test(other than checking with a meter) is to turn down the tone knob. With an open coil pickup it will cut all the signal almost immediately.

[spud1950]

Seeing that the Neovin pickups are single coil size humbuckers with four leads,two for each coil, there's also the possibility that you have them wired incorrectly so that only one coil on each pickup is working, which would severely cut down the output.

[antiunderscores]

Seeing that the Neovin pickups are single coil size humbuckers with four leads,two for each coil, there's also the possibility that you have them wired incorrectly so that only one coil on each pickup is working, which would severely cut down the output.

he may have also joined the 4 conductor cables wrong and be running it out of phase which, especially in a mini humbucker, would also severely cut the volume.

[spud1950]

Right.Out of phase is another possibility. Whichever,it seems to me that it most likely that some sort of mis wiring is causing the problem.

[David Schwab]

Let me guess, you were trying to take the cover off?

The wire to the fake pole tips was probably a ground wire. The pole tips might actually be a working part of the pickup, so that might account for the lack of output.

Unless the pickup is wired out-of-phase with itself, it sounds like you broke it.

[spud1950]

Yes,the "pole pieces" are a ground plate.From the GFS site:

"Neovins are dual coil humbuckers that are encapsulated in a unique ground shield array. The exposed polepieces are not magnets, but rather part of this array."

Re reading the original post,which I didn't quite grasp at first,I agree with David. You may have very well damaged the pickups.I remember reading that with Fender noiseless pickups,you should also never attempt to remove the covers because,due to the way they are constructed,you will damage the pickups.That's why if you want the covers in a different color,you have to buy a whole new pickup in the color you want.Is the pole piece plate actually glued to inside of the cover?

[mcsilvio]

Hi all,
THANKS so much for helping me out here.

I had the chance to bring my guitar back to its shop and the guitar tech looked at it (he seemed very knowledgable and friendly). he even felt the need to shake my hand because i chose such a sexy guitar! haha its damn good llooking though.

ok. after he checked the connections he agreed that the contacts are all wired fine. i told him more about the problem. that they seem to work but are about half the volume. he says "half the volume of what" this made me think. well i told him that they sounded about half the volume of the bridge pickup which is a real humbucker.

first thing is that he said that these are not rail pickups (which seemed weird to me). then he put all my pickups on the ohm meter.

the two pickups im having trouble with (neck and mid) come in at 8.7k and the humbucker that came with the guitar comes in at 17k!

he said that its likely that they are working but just not high enough output to match the humbuckers output.

does this make sense? also, about the tone pot test, the pickups work fine with the tone cut.

any further ideas? i REALLY appreciate all of the feedback! ill be on this site frequently with the guitar mods i wanna try (on my not-so-good-looking guitar).

EDIT***
in retrospect, we metred the pickups that were originally in these two spots. they came in at just over 4k. and i really dont remember having a volume problem at all. at least not a noticeable one. soo, should 8k pickups match the volume of the 17k humbucker? maybe i should be ordering a humbucker from guitarfetish that has around a 14k output
cheers,
marco.

[David Schwab]

It's possible those pickups were wired in parallel, which would make sense if there was a wire from between the coils to the ground plane. That would give a low reading.

The only thing I don't get about that is that they show four conductor wiring on the pickups in the photos. I think you broke a coil connection and are only reading one coil. Or maybe you have them wired out of phase with themselves.

They don't give the DC resistance, but they write:

Wound as big and fat as possible- A Neodymium magnet allows the NEO9 to really overdrive an amp while still retaining lots of "Strat" character.

So the low reading you are getting sounds wrong.

I think these pickups are toast, and you get to get a new set.

[mcsilvio]

yeah i found that strange too. these pickups look like rails, have 4 leads at the bottom. two have to be connected directly (ok), but this tech said that they are just single coils? i know little about that so i dont know. im gonna have a look at that tiny wire going down the middle and ill connect it to the ground plate.

you guys ROCK.

[David Schwab]

yeah i found that strange too. these pickups look like rails, have 4 leads at the bottom. two have to be connected directly (ok), but this tech said that they are just single coils?

You need a new tech that knows what he's talking about. They are rail humbuckers... two coils. They are just made to look like one coil.

He might have them wired up wrong.

[mcsilvio]

ive been talking to a gentleman at guitar fetish and he says theyre the loudest hes got like that. says that theyre noiseless. i asked him if 17k for my humbucker was a little high and he agreed that it was very high. i think to even things out im going to grab a 14k humbucker or something.

is a 9k humbucker not realistic. i figure to make the output as even as possible, i should get all my pickups with the same resistance(?). or would i do well to just grab a slightly lower output humbucker? 14k? less even?