Tube Education for Blues Deluxe

[titanxt]

Hello. This is my first post on this forum.

Let me describe the tone I am after and then ask my question. I play a lot of church music which is largely clean, with a pretty frequent need for something a little more edgy, but not to over driven. I am looking for a big clean tone and the ability to push it to a gray, thick, beefy tone - without the fizz and whonk associated with too much drive.

I would like to replace the stock tubes in my Blues Deluxe Reissue, but I know little about tubes in general. What should I look for and can you give me a little education on how tubes effect sound?

Thanks!

[black_labb]

your going to have to ask a more specific question. some people here have textbooks worth of information on tubes in their head. they arent going to type a textbook worth of information for one person to read on a forum. i's suggest reading some books/sites that talk about tubes and then ask questions on what you've read. this will get you much more meaningful results.

The Guitar Amp Handbook: Understanding Tube Amplifiers and Getting Great Sounds by Dave Hunter is a great book to read to understand the basics, circuits and how it all effects the sound. there may be some useful websites for your level, but i dont know of them as i read that book for my basic knowledge.

[titanxt]

Ok, I guess the first thing I would like to know is what do the five tubes in the Blues Deluxe do individually? There are 3 12AX7's and two larger power tubes (of which I do not know what they are actually). What do the three 12AX7's do? One for clean and two for drive???? And do both power tubes run together or is one for the clean channel and the other for the drive channel?

Thanks!

[black_labb]

there are 2 triodes per 12ax7. each triode can be wired up for voltage gain, current amplification (cathode follower) a phase inverter, oscilator for tremolo ect. the big tubes are used for power amplification, so that you can power the speakers. clean and gain/drive/distortion channels are similar with the main difference is the former has more gain (voltage amplification) so that it overdrives some of the tubes.
theres the whole circuitry around the tubes that determines what the tube does, how it does it and what the results are.

tubes are just the technology before solidstate transistors, but essentially do the same thing.

[rockon1]

Ok, I guess the first thing I would like to know is what do the five tubes in the Blues Deluxe do individually? There are 3 12AX7's and two larger power tubes (of which I do not know what they are actually). What do the three 12AX7's do? One for clean and two for drive???? And do both power tubes run together or is one for the clean channel and the other for the drive channel?

Thanks!

Simply put-Two of the 12AX7's are gain stages. Im not sure of the signal flow on the amp but generally the first 12AX7 called the input tube(and usually closest to the input jack) is used for the clean channel and the second 12AX7 is added to it for additional gain for the the dirty channel.The last 12AX7 usually closest to the power tubes is the phase inverter and part of the power section. The two 6L6's(big tubes) are power tubes. Both power tubes work together (whether your using the clean or dirty channel) to produce the 40 watt of power the amp delivers. The first two 12AX7's are part of the pre amp section. The last 12AX7 and power tubes are part of the power section. HTH Bob

[titanxt]

So, If I were to change 12AX7's then I would need to change all three at once? What about if I went with 12AY7's?

[rockon1]

So, If I were to change 12AX7's then I would need to change all three at once? What about if I went with 12AY7's?

Nope. You could try one at a time. You can mix and match. For instance a lot of guys will put the"best" sounding tube(for instance an NOS Mullard) in the V1 as it has an affect on all channels. An 12AY7 will reduce the gain a bit. If your looking to lower your gain(less distortion) it might be what your looking for. Bob

[titanxt]

I plan on using mainly the clean channel in the future with a Tube Screamer TS808 pedal for a little extra boost when needed. So, the clean channel is the most important thing for me. Would going with the 12AY7's be effective in the clean channel or is the reduction in gain they provide better suited for cleaning up the gain channels?

[rockon1]

The best way Ive found to try lower mu substitions is,well ,to try them! Of coarse thats easy for me since I became a "tubaholic"! I own about 1300 pre amp tubes. After re-reading your initial post it sounds like your after more clean headroom I take it? You might pick up a couple of 12AY7's and try them in different positions.-even the PI. KCA has some ANOS GE's that wont break the bank(17$) you could try. Im not sure about new production ones. Might ask Mike if he has any recommendations. Bob

http://kcanostubes.com/products/565/...E-12AY7-17.htm



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[mac1amps]

If you're trying to avoid the "fuzzy" overtones you were previously referring to, I would strongly suggest that you avoid using the lead channel with the master set low. One factor that's often overlooked with lead/"clean" channel amps (especially the ever so popular Fender "Blues" and "Hot Rod" series), is that the [so called] "clean" channel is fully capable of getting a nice Bluesey break-up at higher settings (and without having to bring a master volume into the mix, which is what "provokes" the fuzzines when overused), but [in my experience] most players who use these models only think of the "Normal" channel for strictly undistorted playing. Try to think of the "Normal" channel as a channel on a "classic" model Fender (i.e. without channel switching features), like a Vibrolux (for example). I get beautiful "clean" as well as overdriven sounds on both of my Vibrolux's (using only one channel).

[Enzo]

I'd agree about not using the lead channel with the master down. Then again I am not all that happy to use the lead channel at all in those Fenders. I like the clean channel a lot though.

I don;t think you have to worry about tube selection as much as you think. The amp will sound like a Fender no matter what brand tubes you stick in it, just as your Fender Strat will sound like a strat whether you mount D'Addario strings or Fender strings. There are tonal differences between tubes, but they are comparatively subtle, just as with strings. And in my opinion those differences are more pronounced in overdriven situations than in playing at polite levels.

The large power tubes are a set, like tires on your car. They tend to wear out together more or less. The small tubes can last years and years, and each one does a different job anyway, so there is no "set" of them in any real sense. They don't match each other in anyway, any more than my distortion pedal matches the snare drum.

[titanxt]

Are you calling the "Drive" channel the "Lead" channel? My amp has a volume knob, a master knob, and a drive knob.

[iamjared]

Stupid question

Sorry for asking such a simple question, but I want to do this (a 12AY7 or 12AT7) to reduce gain on my BDRi. But, when I look at the back there are 3 12AX7s... how do I know which is "V1"?!

Thanks =)

[rockon1]

Sorry for asking such a simple question, but I want to do this (a 12AY7 or 12AT7) to reduce gain on my BDRi. But, when I look at the back there are 3 12AX7s... how do I know which is "V1"?!

Thanks =)

The V1 is usually closest to the input jack. The V3 (phase inverter)is closest to the power tubes. Bob

[iamjared]

Thanks a ton!