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  • Neo magnet procedures for magnetizing

    I have read and seen a few posts on using Neo magnets for magnetizing. Some say create a circuit some don't. Use a vice, watch your fingers, explosions and the list goes on and on. Don't forget toxic gas from the explosion. Maybe we can get this into a single post. I am less interested in the jigs themselves than the magnetizing procedure.

    I have been looking at Neo's on several sites and checking size price and Gauss values. How high a value do you really need to charge ceramic and Alnico's? Been looking at Bar VS round shapes and this information seems like it would eliminate a lot of wrong Neo choices.

    The second question is charging procedure for the two types of magnets, Bar and cylinder magnets. I know you pass the bar through the two Neo's but I am unclear of the correct procedure to charge the Rounds. I am lead to believe you just place the magnet in the field and then remove it, do not pass it through. But I am not sure these procedures are correct. How close should you get the magnets to the Neo's?

    Also discharging Alnico's with ceramics, any tips?

    Your help and debate is always welcomed.

  • #2
    No one has any info to provide.

    I was reading the Bill Lawrence web site and he says you pass the entire pickup through the magnetic field after it is done?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Woodenspoke View Post
      No one has any info to provide.

      I was reading the Bill Lawrence web site and he says you pass the entire pickup through the magnetic field after it is done?
      Didn't you see the other thread?

      http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ad.php?t=12638

      You slide the assembled pickup (if it's a single coil) through the neos. Otherwise you can charge bar magnets by passing them through.

      If you use a small metal vice with a neo on each side you will have a more efficient magnetic circuit, and the vice allows you to change the space between the magnets.

      I posted a photo of a drill press vice with neos re-charging a Fender Mustang pickup.
      It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


      http://coneyislandguitars.com
      www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
        Didn't you see the other thread?

        http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ad.php?t=12638

        You slide the assembled pickup (if it's a single coil) through the Neo's. Otherwise you can charge bar magnets by passing them through.

        If you use a small metal vice with a Neo on each side you will have a more efficient magnetic circuit, and the vice allows you to change the space between the magnets.

        I posted a photo of a drill press vice with Neo's re-charging a Fender Mustang pickup.
        I read a lot of the threads that came up on a magnetizing search as you should have surmised in my original post. But if you read most of the posts on this forum you are (at least I am) left with more questions than answers. You say you don't use the magnets in a vice but refer to them countless times in countless posts. What do you use then? No offense but it reminds me of Project Guitar posters who always refer back to using torch tip cleaners to cut nut slots. Sounds good until you actually try it.

        Have you ever magnetized single rod magnets prior to assembly or is it customary to only charge a completed assembly.

        If you are charging single rod magnets do you pass them through the field like bar magnets and assemblies or just place them in the field in a stationary position. I guess this would be the same question with any magnet and assembly. If you only hold the magnet in a Magnetizer (commercial charger) in a stationary posistion why would you pass the magnet through the field using Neo's.

        How many Gauss do you recommend minimum if you are using Neo's as a charger. If you dont know what Gauss what size then.

        How close do you need to get the magnets to the Neo to properly charge them.

        What is the procedure for discharging Alnico's using a ceramic magnet and what size ceramic magnet do you use.

        I think these are pretty basic "I will not be giving away any secrets" questions for the first time pickup maker. It is possible most of this information is strewn about on this forum but it is certainly not in a single post or is searches using specific keywords that I have found. I guess I could experiment but why have a pickup makers forum if it isn't to learn from experienced pickup makers.

        Comment


        • #5
          I never said I don't use a vice... you can see it in the photo. You must be thinking of someone else. And I use nut files for cutting nut slots!

          So far I rarely make guitar pickups, so I don't use many alnico magnets, and I never work with uncharged magnets. But I did set up that little jig with a vice to try recharging a '72 Mustang pickup that had been sitting for years in a box with ceramic magnet pickups, and it worked great. I was even able to recharge a weak ceramic magnet. I also did a few alnico bar magnets.

          The magnets I used probably should have been larger, but I didn't buy them for the purpose of charging alnicos. This was just something I threw together to see if it worked.

          If you do a search you will see other jigs set up in a similar fashion. I think most of the pickup makers here that use rod magnets assemble the magnets into the flatwork first and then charge them. Probably after the pickup is wound as well.
          It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


          http://coneyislandguitars.com
          www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

          Comment


          • #6
            Jupp, why first charge the magnet? It makes the assembly much harder as they whant to cling to each other (or puch each other away). And why charge the magnets if you are not 100% satisfied with the wind. Anyway that is the way I do it (charge the mags in an assembled and winded pickup).

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE]
              Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
              I never said I don't use a vice... you can see it in the photo. You must be thinking of someone else. And I use nut files for cutting nut slots!
              Given all your posts I just assumed you have made many and "a few times" meant it was not your standard practice. Yes most people use nut files, worst case a thin razor saw and needle files, but torch cleaners, absurd.


              If you do a search you will see other jigs set up in a similar fashion. I think most of the pickup makers here that use rod magnets assemble the magnets into the flatwork first and then charge them. Probably after the pickup is wound as well.
              Making a jig is the least of my problems so is the least of my worries. The proper charging distance from the Neo's will give me enough info to make a working jig.

              why first charge the magnet
              Well for a humbucker it may just be easier to pass a bar through the Neo charger, For a Fender style it may be an advantage to charge each magnet to a specific Gauss rather than the entire assembly. Just a thought that opens up a whole host of questions. I will be planning on not screwing up the wind if I can help it. But you never know.
              It makes much harder as they want to cling to each other (or push each other away).
              Then you don't buy charged magnets?


              I just picked up a Gauss meter so I am very interested to see differences in gauss readings vs sound, as the type of magnet you use effects the gauss output and thus sound, different gauss levels within the same magnet type like Alnico V should also effect tone, if I am reading these posts correctly. So I am very interested in magnetizing pickups and also demagnetizing them. I will be checking my current retail pickups as well for any differences that I can find.

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE=Woodenspoke;99783]
                Given all your posts I just assumed you have made many and "a few times" meant it was not your standard practice. Yes most people use nut files, worst case a thin razor saw and needle files, but torch cleaners, absurd.
                I make guitar pickups for myself, but haven't decided to sell any yet. It's a crowded market. I haven't made any single coils, except stacks, and I used blades and not poles. I appreciate traditional Fender pickups for what they are, but I don't use them. My Mustang had Bill Lawrence pickups in it which is why the original ones got messed up.

                Making a jig is the least of my problems so is the least of my worries. The proper charging distance from the Neo's will give me enough info to make a working jig.
                I had them touching when I did it. It's hard to not have them touch, so I set the vice slightly wider than the pickup. I just slid it in one side and out the other. I did that a few times. Making some kind of wooden jig to hold the pickup and give it some space would make it easier to slide. But it wasn't that hard. I was using fairly small magnets, 1" X 1/4" X 1/4". They are Grade N42 and the surface field is listed as 4480 Gauss. I had one on each side.

                Well for a humbucker it may just be easier to pass a bar through the Neo charger, For a Fender style it may be an advantage to charge each magnet to a specific Gauss rather than the entire assembly. Just a thought that opens up a whole host of questions. I will be planning on not screwing up the wind if I can help it. But you never know.
                I would think you would want all the magnets the same, but as I said I don't make pickups like that.

                Then you don't buy charged magnets?
                The guys that make single coils buy the magnets uncharged, and then charge them after assembly. Even Duncan does that.
                It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                http://coneyislandguitars.com
                www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                Comment


                • #9
                  For now my experimentation will be limited to off the shelf suppliers and I assume I will be dealing with charged magnets.

                  I am also not one for Fender single coil but will be experimenting with them anyway.

                  I agree the market is saturated, however the low cost to make your own for your own instruments is worth the investment. certainly less that all my woodworking and metal working equipment.

                  I just ordered two 3 x 1.5 x .5 inch Neo's charged on the faces (almost missed that tidbit of info when I was looking) I will look for a ceramic magnet capable of discharging the Alnico's, I may have something in my shop that will work.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Woodenspoke,

                    I too use Neos in a vise for charging most of the time. I charge humbuckers pre-assembly and single coils with magnetic slug rods post-assembly. The reason I do this for single coils becomes obvious once you try to assemble flatwork with charged Alnico slugs…one or more magnets will try to flip itself over…what a pain keeping the orientation correct!!!

                    I bought a large supply of pre-magnetized rods years ago, before I knew how to magnetize them myself, but I’ve even gotten to the point of de-magnetizing all these prior to flatwork assembly.

                    I understand one's logic in wanting to vary each magnet’s strength in a single coil unit. My suggestion would be to selectively de-gauss the poles you want to weaken once you assembled and charged the pickup.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by Jim Darr; 03-30-2009, 10:30 PM.
                    =============================================

                    Keep Winding...Keep Playing!!!

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Woodenspoke;99783][QUOTE]Then you don't buy charged magnets?QUOTE]
                      Your initial question was (partly):
                      Originally posted by Woodenspoke View Post
                      I am unclear of the correct procedure to charge the Rounds. I am lead to believe you just place the magnet in the field and then remove it, do not pass it through.
                      And that is what I answered to. A HB magnet is more or less always charged before assembly, even thou I have seen a youtube clip of a complete HB being charged by an electrical charger.

                      One way to alter the magnets strength is to use different Alnico grades. A really good sounding strat pickup is A5 for the bass strings and A2 for the treble strings. Charged them all to the max.

                      BTW woodenspoke, we know each other from the PG forum, I’m SwedishLuthier over there. Welcome to this forum.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=Peter Naglitsch;99820][QUOTE=Woodenspoke;99783]

                        BTW woodenspoke, we know each other from the PG forum, I’m SwedishLuthier over there. Welcome to this forum.
                        Hey Swedishluthier a friendly voice from the crowd. I have posted here in occasion but my forte is wood and metal work(also a new adventure but much further along). I need to expand my horizons. A guitar is not complete until you make the pickups as well, LOL

                        I saw that charging of the whole pickup video on U tube as well and the posts here showing bar magnets ready to pass through the Neo's.

                        I do want to experiment with different charges on the same magnet. I have several Alnico V and II's on order to play with, bar and rod. Now I just have to figure out what technique will work to discharge them only a small fraction. That is once I figure out how to fully charge them.

                        I still feel I have only half the information I need but I will plod along as I go. I still have a winder to assemble that has been sitting complete in a drawer for more than a year, due to a move across the country and my never ending projects that always get me sidetracked.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Woodenspoke View Post
                          I saw that charging of the whole pickup video on U tube
                          Can you post a link to it? I can't find it...

                          Thanking in advance,

                          Yours truly,
                          Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
                          Milano, Italy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LtKojak View Post
                            Can you post a link to it? I can't find it...

                            Thanking in advance,

                            Yours truly,
                            It was mentioned that they charged the whole pickup

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCR4w4hAtRo

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is how I discharge magnets: I throw a bunch of magnets together in a box and let them sit there for 6 months

                              No seriously, I more or less reverse the charging process; pass them through neo or ceramic mags but with a much higher distance between the neo and the pickup mags. Taka bit of experimenting with distance to get the hang of it, but as you have a gauss meter you can have instant feedback of what is happening with the gauss level. But if a jig speeds up/simplify things when you charges the magnets, then it will really help you get consistent and repeatable results when degaussing. Having that said I should also state that I am probably not the most experienced guy here when it comes to controlled degaussing. I have only played around with it a bit. I’m sure there are alternative and better ways to do this.

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