Musical customers

[fixitrightthefirsttime]

To any of you who make a living servicing or repairing audio equipment, I have some general questions on how to handle the customers.

My problem is, after spending decades just down the road from NASA, seriously, in the highest-of-tech environments (plasma reactors, for one) I find myself building and repairing guitar amps. And I love it. Except for one thing: the culture shock.

I mean, the sort of customers who bring a piece of road-weary, 20-year-old, burned up (If I hear, "well, I loaned it to a friend" one more time, it's 'postal' for me) dirty, vermin-infested, abused crap-which sucked when it was new, even--which they swear "was working just fine until two nights ago and it just made a 'funny noise'" and burned down half of the fire-trap blues district (as seen on the news, no doubt.) And they want it fixed in a stupid-short amount of time, for next to nothing, and they want me to guarantee it for 999 years, as if it were brand f'n new.

Here is the thing...five things, actually. I didn't design it, I didn't build it, I didn't sell it (read: "make money on this sub-consumer-grade garbage") I didn't break it, and now you want me to compensate for the previous 4 steps?

I just repaired a hermaphrodite Super-Reverb-Pro-Silverface-Blackface, on which some idiot had wired the hum balance to ground on both sides, and, for extra fun, in the process shorted the filament pin to the plate pin (2 & 3 on the octal socket.) No kidding, the filament AC rode on a 500 V DC bias--for a little while. Hilarious. They had replaced the upper rear "baffle" with plywood and spray-painted the back side of the cabinet black, with overspray on the tolex, naturally. Yeah, I did repair it, just because I could not turn away-like looking at a multi-fatality highway accident.

Now the cretin-owner wants to use his own 6L6 tubes (the condition of which I have no knowledge) to complete the repair, and they expect me to warranty my work? To quote Melvin Udall, "Think ***** and get real."

So, Pros, how do you handle these morons?

[Enzo]

Well if I were going to write a book on the subject... oh wait, I am.

If you walk into a lawnmower repair shop with your dead mower that you tried to fix, with the loose head bolts in a baggie for them, and you start telling them you want it back in an hour, running like new, with a forever guarantee, oh yes and only charge me $20, do you think for one moment that that is what would happen? Of course not. The mower shop sets its rates, it has a warranty on its work as spelled out somewhere, THEY will tell YOU when it will be done. ("Here y'go Buddy, two weeks.")

And culture shock? You're in the real world NOW, not the insular world of NASA. This is what the great unwashed masses are like.

No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

A few standouts aside, most folks are reasonable. Treat them nice, respect their needs, be fair, and it will all work out.

YOu have a bench fee? POst it. You have minimums? Post them. Over the years I have my favorite little analogies, but pick your own. I use cars a lot because everyone can relate. If people balk, try to put it in another perspective they can relate to.

I charge people not based on the value of their thing, but on my shop rates. It takes me just as long to fix a blown up $5 yard sale amp as it does the same amp new. It has to come apart whether I replace "just a jack" or an IC in the middle. Does the auto mechanic charge less to replace the alternator on a beat up car? No.

YOu are paying me:
to know what to do
to know how to do the work
to do no harm to the amp
to have the facility, tools, and materials for doing the work
to have reasonable parts supplies on hand
to have the resources to find what you need for the work.
and so on.

That is what my rate is based upon.

I tell them up front, my minimum charge for this type of equipment is $45 or $60 or whatever. I have a schedule somewhere, though it is in my head mostly. I generously give them my once over for ffree. I'll take the lid off and poke around for a couple minutes with a meter even. Doesn't take long to get an idea what's up.

Sometimes they tell me "don't do any work until you give me a solid estimate." Well, I tell them I have to charge for that estimate (that charge going towards the repair of course) since I have to do the work to determine what is wrong. If you are in a state that requires written estimates, then write up a worst case and offer it, telling them that is worst case and you just have no way to know if it is that bad or not without doing some work.

Almost universally, when I talk with "estimate" people, they tell me all they wanted to do was make sure there was not going to be a surprise $200 repair bill. SO I usually counter the estimate request with asking for a budget - a number I can go ahead without approval. Saves us all time.

SOme basic solid state something came through yesterday, and I told the guy that labor would be $45-60 and parts anywhere from $0 to $30, so basically $75-100 tops.

MY shop minimum for an amp is $45. But some are so easy, like all those practice amps out there, the Crate GX15, the Gorilla, the whatever. TDA2040IC, broken jack, maybe a broken control. I can fix it in 10 minutes. I often relent and charge them $30 labor. I make sure to tell them I discounted things, they like that. "Oh, I just couldn't charge you $45 for this and keep a straight face." It is all about making friends in the marketplace. The guy knows I am looking out for his interest.

I respect everyone's stuff. It may be some little Gorrilla piece of crap amp, but it is still the guy's amp. You gonna give him crap if his girlfriend is ugly? Or his mom? One day they may need service on something real. you want them to think of you. I don't lie to them. "IS this Gorilla a good amp?" I tell them it is a basic amp intended for practice, and it does that well enough.

The last thing you need is to have a confrontational or adversarial relationship with the customer. I take the tough customer with a chip on his shoulder as a challenge professionally. I'm gonna make that guy my friend by the time he leaves the shop.

SOmetimes the back stories are lies, but so what? If the customer wants you to think it wasn't HIM that broke it, OK, who cares? It showed up here in the condition it was in. We fix THAT, not what it should have been. If they insist on telling a story, fine, I listen and nod. OK then, I'll take care of this.

If a guy brings you some cobble job mod gone wrong, I gotta believe that one was blowing fuses. I tell them I work for time and materials. AS to warranty, I warrant THE WORK THAT I DID, NOTHING MORE. Explain to them that warranties are not the same thing as insurance. If I replace the power cord, the shop warranty doesn't cover the input jack.

preemptive comments help. Tell him for example that the ONLY thing that can burn up a screen resistor is the tube it is connected to, so if his unknown tubes burn one up, that would not be covered.

But the solution to supply your own tubes guys is to require them to supply them to you up front. Now during the repair, if one is crappy - or all of them for that matter - you can point it out to him. If he wants new Groove TUbes and you don't sell those, then fine, let him buy the Grooves and bring them to you. You can then make sure the bias is right and so on.

Then there are the guys who come back 10 months lateer claiming it sat in the closet the whole time and the JUUUUUUST now fired it up and it isn't working... Have a shop warranty POSTED, and if you print tickets, print the warranty on every ticket. 30 days 60 days, whatever, stick to it. 10 months later, tell him it worked when he picked it up and you will have to charge him now. If it becomes apparent that you really DID miss something or made a bad repair, then DO extend the warranty. That guy will sing your praises forever.

I prefer to fire up amps when they are picked up to show the customer it is working, and to let them make sure it is to their satisfaction before they take it. If it comes back looking for a freebie, you can point out that they themselves heard it working.

Ever have someone bring in just the circuit board from something and expect that you will somehow be able to fix it? Then there are the guys who take things apart and want to bring it in in pieces "to save you some time." I tell them that it won't affect the bill when I take it apart myself, and I want things assembled when they come in. I can move an assembled amp around the shop. WHat am I supposed to do with a pile of loose crap?

[Tom Phillips]

Well...Based on the tone of every paragraph in your post, I think that
1) You had just been through a bad sequence of events and were really pissed off when you wrote your post and you needed to vent or...
2) You are not suited to the MI amp repair business and will never be happy dealing with the equipment or the people.

Yes there are some cretin-owners and some real losers but most of the people I deal with are really grateful for the service I provide. I get along with most of them just fine just as well as I get along with the people who build equipment for NASA.

Regards,
Tom

[Mars Amp Repair]

Customers

Well I think anyone in this field for any time can appreciate all that has been written.
I have been in the field for 25yrs, but only been running my own business of guitar/bass amps etc for 2yrs this June.
I find as Tom has mentioned that most folks are very appreciative of your efforts as long as you (as Enzo has mentioned) show concern for them & their equipment.
I reluctantly repaired an old Onkyo power amp for a guy along with his Line6 amp. I received a call back from the guy after a week & he mentioned that I was going to have to learn what kind of customer he was & what he expected.
It seems because one of the meter lights was out when he got it home, he figured that I just breezed over the old amp & just got it working as fast as I could & missed the meter lamp as well as the manner in which these particular meters were working.
He wanted me to know that he expected me to find EVERYTHING wrong with his equipment & then let him make the judgement as to what he wanted fixed. He just really went way over the top in his head that I somehow ripped him off. (I actually really enjoyed working on a quality piece of equipment from my solid state formative years). BTW, the lamps & the meters did work when it left.
After I let the hair on the back of my neck settle down, I asked him if he knew that 20yr old lamps can sometimes go bad just from being bounced around & did HE know just what to expect from these meters.
He had to admit that the old bulbs could have opened on his way home & no, he really didn't know what to expect out of the meters.
Some folks just seem to get all panicy when they feel they've somehow been 'taken'.
I could have easily just gone off on the guy, but thought I'd give him a chance to get reasonable. He did & I hope he'll have more confidence in my business next time...he probably experiences the former most of the time.

Anyway, If you spend time talking to most folks & show concern while also being firm about your shop policies (as Enzo indicated), I think you'll find that most customers respond respond favorably.
Some folks as we all know are just tweaky & require some kid glove handling & there are some that are just hopeless.
My policy; People are just no damned good! ...and we're all people glen

[fixitrightthefirsttime]

Good comments! Well said!

Good comments; well said.

First, to clarify, I truly was not P.O.'ed...I was laughing, actually; and I was just venting with attempts at humor. But reading my post again, I see how it looks like I was livid. Wow. Wow. (note to self: "re-evaluate writing skills.")

Back to the customer thing, I appreciate the responses more than you know, and am aware that most of the people are fair and appreciative (and hasten to add that the people who are the most trouble often provide the lesser business benefit.) Honestly, I agree with what was written, and am already doing most of what was suggested.

The rules and practices I use are:
1. Never be confrontational, ever. No good will come of it.
2. Never berate someones gear ("never tell someone his dog is ugly.")
3. Use problem customers as an opportunity to practice social skills. Like the response comment above, I try to turn their attitude around to the positive. I let them see that I am on "their side." Usually the "problem" people have real "needs" far beyond the condition of their gear. And those in that category respond best to a sympathetic, patient and understanding approach. Rarely are they treated that way, and you just made their day, and they will tell everyone that you "are the man."
4. Always vent frustrations away from the business place. Decades in corporate America have taught me to smile the most when someone lets yu down or tries to screw you over.
5. Keep it all business.

Thanks again for all the comments. The words were very supportive.
L

[Amp Kat]

One thing I've noticed is there aren't many of us out there and lots of musicians realize this and are very appreciative that we are around. I give these guys a breaks if I can. I was once a playing for a living musician and know it's tough as hell tstl so I do my part for society. If you get to me in a bad way I'll find a way to get rid of you in a somewhat nice manner. Had a store owner was taking my repairs and tacking on twice that amount to the customer after he paid me. That didn't sit well and I found a way to stop it. If I get an amp that is infested I tell them after they clean it I'll work on it. Guess it all boils down to how bad you need the work and can you afford to be pickey. No matter what sometimes you have to bite your tongue but overall most customers are ok and some just downright cool. Take it for what it is and do the beat you can and the rest will all work out in the end.

[Euthymia]

To any of you who make a living servicing or repairing audio equipment, I have some general questions on how to handle the customers.

....customers who bring a piece of road-weary, 20-year-old, burned up (If I hear, "well, I loaned it to a friend" one more time, it's 'postal' for me) dirty, vermin-infested, abused crap-which sucked when it was new, even--which they swear "was working just fine until two nights ago and it just made a 'funny noise'"

I just laugh along with them at how equipment on loan gets treated with disregard. I've loaned stuff to bandmates and friends, and know that it DOES sometimes take a beating.

People who are borrowing equipment don't care enough about gear to have their own in the first place, right?

And they want it fixed in a stupid-short amount of time, for next to nothing, and they want me to guarantee it for 999 years, as if it were brand f'n new.

They can "want" all day long. Shit into one hand and "want" into the other and see which one fills up first.

A good test of "want" is to have a rush charge.

As for guarantees, my policy is that if the repair I did fails, I make it right for no extra charge.

If the amp breaks due to something I should have caught when I had it on the bench, then I fix it as if it were part of the original repair. No new bench fee, that is, I only charge for the new labor and whatever parts.

Sometimes I explain what I call the "13/14 rule" That states that if there are 14 things wrong with an amp, and I find and fix 13 of them, it'll have to come back.

Here is the thing...five things, actually. I didn't design it, I didn't build it, I didn't sell it (read: "make money on this sub-consumer-grade garbage") I didn't break it, and now you want me to compensate for the previous 4 steps?

If the client seems to expect a level of performance (including durability) from the amplifier that it is not capable of delivering, I try to educate them as gently as possible, and if that doesn't stick, flat out say "I can't make it do that."

I had one guy not too long ago, nice kid, brought me a Marshall Valvestate head with about 30% of the pot shafts broken off, cracked phenolic circuit board, shredded tolex. Chatting revealed that he was gigging the poor thing constantly, including Vans Warped Tour side stages (everybody and the equipment in one vehicle, lightning fast load-in, etc.).

I explained to him that while his amp was a "Marshall head," it was simply not designed for road use, that it didn't have too many Vans Tours left in it, and that if he was playing out that much, maybe it was time to invest in a more rugged piece. Y'know, time to graduate.

Now the cretin-owner wants to use his own 6L6 tubes (the condition of which I have no knowledge) to complete the repair, and they expect me to warranty my work?

Nobody loves the customer who brings their own tubes. Fact of life, though. Throw 'em on your tester, check 'em for current draw. If they don't pass and/or don't match, you can't use 'em. If they pass, they'll probably be okay.

Finally, I've learned that sometimes I have to turn people down. Can't be afraid to let 'em walk if it's something I can't do or don't want to do. If I look at the piece and it's beyond my help (or I just don't feel like it), I "no bid" it.

I'm under no obligation to work on things that I don't want to work on. It's one of the great advantages of being my own boss.

Even if I've already taken their money and the thing has come back, as a last resort I can give them back their money and send them on their way. Haven't had to do that yet, but the existence of Ampeg "SVT's" with IRF9240's in the output stages makes me reserve it as a possibility.