I differentiate between the good guys who need a hand, and the outright pricks who pop up from time to time. I don't see the the good guys as competition, they're just trying to get along and there's enough work for everyone. The pricks are another matter and they even have the face to ring me up and ask for advice. They're the bodgers whose work I get second or third time round. Shipwreck amps and guitars that had the misfortune to end up on their rocky shores. The tale is often "They replaced X,Y and Z, and it still isn't right". Sometimes the work is so bad I zip it up and hand it back, no charge. Just when I think I've seen the most unbelievable thing, there's another that comes along even worse.
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Oscilloscope, necessary tool or nearly worthless? Battling other shops
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An oscilloscope is just a tool. I have repaired many amps with just a multimeter and no scope. Occasionally I will need to use more sophisticated tools like an oscilloscope to diagnose a problem. I once used a thermal imaging camera to track down an overheating output transformer. The problem turned out to be an intermittently shorting winding that only showed up when voltage was applied. It showed up on the camera as a bright red spot.
When I go to get my oil changed the mechanics do not use a timing light. But if I take my car in for timing issues, they had better use the timing light and computer diagnostic equipment!
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A scope is a visual volt meter. I think the analogy is more like: when I take my car in for timing, do they use the Radio Shack timing light, Or a sophisticated auto ignition analyzer?
You can fix most repairs without a scope because most repairs are simple anyway. I can flip the meter to AC volts and measure ripple, or I can scope the ripple, either way I detect it, but the scope will tell me I have that ripple because of weak filtration or because I am missing one side of the bridge. A meter won;t show you asymmetrical clipping or even distortion.
And using a scope teaches you more about the circuits.Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.
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Well said Axtman. It's not always necessary but I consider it essential (to at least have) for anyone charging at a 'pro' level.
Anyone I've ever come across that puts energy into arguing against them have either been a joke or a scam.Originally posted by EnzoI have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."
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The least a tech could do is keep an oscilloscope around for a stage prop. You know, have a bunch of equipment with knob /a dials, oscilloscope with wave forms, Jacobs Ladder crackling away, maybe even a theremin playing 50's Sci Fi spooky music!
The picture below is from Mr. Carlson's Lab. Check out his YouTube videos!
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I'll have to be the one to buck the Conventional Wisdom here regarding shop rates for store farm outs. I do all repairs for a local music store here, and they make nothing on it. I know this because I provide them with my itemized bill that they then forward to their customer. They do it just to be able to say they do repairs as a service to their clientele. But, I know this is not the norm.It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....
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Originally posted by oc disorder View Post40% on the bill. SKIMMERS!
What bugs me is some techs who add an up charge when they employ their oscilloscope. Or other shops (sleazy chain auto shops like Firestone) that add $3 for a shot of lube spray. If I was a plumber would I add an up charge to use my wrench? Hm, maybe I oughta give up being so customer-friendly, start chiseling them $3 for a shot of Deoxit, $30 for scope work. Might move my income up a couple grand per year.This isn't the future I signed up for.
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Originally posted by Leo_Gnardo View PostWhat bugs me is some techs who add an up charge when they employ their oscilloscope. Or other shops (sleazy chain auto shops like Firestone) that add $3 for a shot of lube spray. If I was a plumber would I add an up charge to use my wrench? Hm, maybe I oughta give up being so customer-friendly, start chiseling them $3 for a shot of Deoxit, $30 for scope work. Might move my income up a couple grand per year.
I know a little bit about this -- a friend of mine owns an auto shop and he got audited by the state sales tax people. It turns out that you can thank them for the existence of those itemized "chemical and supplies" charges.
It used to be that auto shops never charged for incidental chemicals and supplies. They'd buy chemicals, shop rags, etc. using their tax-exempt certificates to lower their out of pocket cost and then they'd use them in their business without paying sales tax when they bought them, without paying use tax when they consumed them, and without charging sales tax to the customer.
A state sales tax auditor who was doing a fine tooth audit of an auto repair shop figured out that they were buying their supplies tax-exempt, and then consuming them in the business without paying use tax on them, and without charging sales tax to the customer. Basically, the State auditor decided that the State was being cheated by the auto shops out of it's sales/use tax. Auditors don't like that.
Once the auditor figured out the ruse, the State charged them back taxes and assessed penalties for the non-payment of tax on that year's sales tax return, which ended up being a significant amount of money. Then, once they realized that the process had been going on for years, the auditors examined every one of the business' previous tax returns going back 10 years. So not only did they flog him once, they flogged him 10 times.
When the auditors realized that most auto shops operated this way, they created a specialized task force to target auto repair shops for audits. Basically, the audit people realized that there was a lot of easy money to be made in this way, so they started performing 10-year audits of auto shops as a method of picking low-hanging fruit. When the auto shops started getting hammered with unpaid taxes and penalties going back 10 years the word spread through the industry like wildfire.
The shops wanted to continue to buy their supplies exempt from sales tax because they wanted to lower the cost of their supplies. The accounting industry decided that if the shops were going to continue to buy their supplies tax-exempt, then they had to create a line item on every bill to account for the disposition of those supplies, and to collect sales/use tax from the customer to satisfy the State.
We have the bean counters and the auditors to thank for this. It's not as if the auto shops came up with this idea on their own."Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest
"I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H
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this reminds me of a song:
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet
Taxman!
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
Don't ask me what I want it for (Aahh Mr. Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more (Aahh Mr. Heath)
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me
Taxman!"Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest
"I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H
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Originally posted by bob p View PostLeo, it's not fair to place the blame on the business owner....
We have the bean counters and the auditors to thank for this. It's not as if the auto shops came up with this idea on their own.
-rbDON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
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Originally posted by rjb View PostThat still doesn't explain why they charge $3 for a shop towel when I can buy a roll of them for $2.
-rbExperience is something you get, just after you really needed it.
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