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Do different brands of transistors sound different?

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  • Do different brands of transistors sound different?

    I hear all the time that Brand X vacuum tubes sound way better than Brand Y vacuum tubes. I have never heard anybody say that Brand A transistors sound way better than Brand B transistors.

  • #2
    I don't even consider the brand, in fact even different types of transistors can usually be subbed for one another.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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    • #3
      sure can be a problem if they're counterfeit.
      "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

      "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Axtman View Post
        I have never heard anybody say that Brand A transistors sound way better than Brand B transistors.
        Transistor are too cheap right now for anyone to have business in making the effort in such claims.

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        • #5
          They don't sound any different, in principle.

          HOWEVER, different brands of the same numbered transistor, and even different batches of the same numbered transistor from the same manufacturer (brand) CAN result in a different sound in the same circuit, simply because they have different specs, such as hfe. That said, the question is why would they "sound different"? And the answer is that the components around the transistor are predicated on the transistor having certain specs. Changing those surrounding components to compensate for those transistor specs can result in the identical "sound" across different transistor batches and makes.

          It's a bit like asking "What colour is the brightest?". The answer will depend on what the background is. In the case of transistors, the "background" is whatever components are used to bias the transistor and set its gain, in addition to supply voltage, etc.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by darkfenriz View Post
            Transistor are too cheap right now for anyone to have business in making the effort in such claims.
            Sounds like the kind of pitch we've come to expect from Mercury. I'm sure their sales team could work up a campaign.
            This isn't the future I signed up for.

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            • #7
              Plenty of mojo claims for transistors if you go looking. Also pedals. Stick in an AC128, OC44, OC71, BC108, GT308 or whatever and make a snake oil claim. Especially if its a Mullard or something.

              I bet it sounds 'organic', has a 'wide sound-stage', and is 'detailed'.

              Mummy, I feel sick.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                ...has a 'wide sound-stage',....
                Without losing intimacy, of course.

                -rb
                DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Axtman View Post
                  I hear all the time that Brand X vacuum tubes sound way better than Brand Y vacuum tubes.
                  ...and yet we hear all the time about the Child-Langmuir law (three-halves law), which apparently applies quite broadly to diodes and triodes regardless of differences in electrode shapes and spacings. If all triodes follow the same law, they should all be able to sound exactly the same (if you drive each one over the same part of it's three-halves-law curve).

                  On the other hand, we know there are always manufacturing tolerances to deal with - if you pick up ten 12AX7s from the same manufacturer, each of the twenty triodes will have slightly different transconductance, anode resistance, and gain. If you happen to stick a higher-gain triode in the same circuit, it will distort more. If you stick a lower gain triode in, it will be distort less. Depending on your taste, you may then decide that one of them sounds better than the other. And then you might notice that the one you happened to like better says "Mullard" on it, and draw the wrong conclusion - that all Mullard 12AX7s sound better than all Brand Y 12AX7s.

                  So I've always wondered if these differences people say they hear between brand X and brand Y valves, really come down to nothing more than normal minor variations due to manufacturing tolerances, and are not due to brand difference at all. I might be lynched for actually coming out and saying that on a forum, though.

                  Originally posted by Axtman View Post
                  I have never heard anybody say that Brand A transistors sound way better than Brand B transistors.
                  As has been mentioned, some people do in fact attribute magic mojo to some brands of transistors. Invariably, those are old, out-of-production types.

                  When it comes to transistors, there is something beyond superstition to consider, though. The very oldest and most primitive transistor circuits were very sensitive to normal manufacturing variations in transistor parameters. This is a very bad thing for mass-production, so smart engineers got to work, and figured out how to design solid-state circuits that were very robust to changes in transistor parameters. Negative feedback is one of the elements that make this possible, but circuit topology is also involved.

                  The end result is that a properly designed (and properly used) solid-state amplifier will behave almost exactly the same whatever transistor you use (as long as the transistor can actually handle the voltage, current, power, and frequency demands placed on it). That, of course, means that it will also sound the same whatever transistor you use.

                  As usual, there is an exception - it lies in the two words "properly used" in the preceding paragraph. In music electronics, we sometimes do things that fall outside the bounds of proper use. Overdriving the heck out of an op-amp is an example - they were never designed to do this, and therefore, some will overdrive more gracefully than others.

                  One last thing to keep in mind - we are very fallible creatures. If we pay more for a valve, or transistor, or car, or loudspeaker, we will automatically hear/feel/see that it is better than the cheaper alternatives. This is why very few Yugo owners would refuse an even swap to a Mercedes, even if it turns out that that particular Mercedes model was a lemon.

                  -Gnobuddy

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                  • #10
                    Wait a second -- if silicon all sounds the same, then where does Tube Screamer mojo come from ?!?!

                    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

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                    • #11
                      From its tube, of course.
                      Juan Manuel Fahey

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        Wait a second -- if silicon all sounds the same, then where does Tube Screamer mojo come from ?!?!

                        My logarithmic transfer function sounds better than your identical logarithmic transfer function!

                        (And my daddy is bigger than your daddy, too!)

                        -Gnobuddy

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                        • #13
                          my previous post was a reference to the Op-Amp Mojo attributed to the Tube Screamers that contain the "magic" JRC4558. there are guys that are so hung up on Op-Amp Mojo that they rip apart Japanese electronics looking for an original vintage JRC4558. RG's even written a tech paper on this.

                          The Technology of the Tube Screamer

                          Me? Never owned one, never built one. But if you believe the lore, the Mojo comes from the Op-Amp. Or maybe it's the magic clipping diodes ... I'm surprised that nobody has recommended using FRED instead of signal diodes for smoother tone ...
                          "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                          "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bob p View Post
                            Me? Never owned one, never built one. But if you believe the lore, the Mojo comes from the Op-Amp.
                            I'm in the same boat, never owned one, never built one.

                            In my twenties, however, I did build several diode-clipping circuits of my own design, as well as a variety of transistor clipping circuits. I eventually gave up when I realized that I really didn't like the sound of any diode-clipper thingy I could devise.

                            Years later, I stumbled across the fact that following a diode-clipping circuit with a dollop of delay, and maybe a sprinkle of reverb, can take most of the ugliness away.

                            A few superhuman guitarists - David Gilmour, Eric Johnson, and maybe one or two others - have managed to create truly beautiful sounds from diode-clipping circuits. All of them seem to have used a stew of multiple other signal-processing ingredients to transform harsh diode clipping into something beautiful and ethereal. I've tried once or twice, but never managed to duplicate their magic myself.

                            Here is a rare case of Joe Bonamassa not suffering from his usual frantic widdly-widdlies, and actually slowing down long enough to showcase some really lovely "50-lb violin" tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iChc...ABE54DAE4C1802

                            I have no idea what Bonamassa was using to create that tone, though.
                            Originally posted by bob p View Post
                            ... I'm surprised that nobody has recommended using FRED instead of signal diodes for smoother tone ...
                            From what I've seen on the 'Net, people have tried all sorts of things. In addition to garden-variety germanium and silicon small-signal diodes, also Schottky diodes, small-signal MOSFET body diodes, LEDs, JFETs, you name it.

                            My suspicion is that most all diode-thingies will sound about the same, minor differences in low-pass filtering aside, as they all have the same logarithmic transfer function. MOSFETs and JFETs do sound distinctively different than the various diode clippers, which isn't too surprising. To my ears, they generally produce less harshness.

                            The mystery, to me, is that an unwanted and unloved NOS $1 TV valve will so often end up sounding better when overdriven, than anything solid-state.



                            -Gnobuddy

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                            • #15
                              Gilmour uses a wide variety of effects, and pretty much all of them set quite low. Low gain, high volume, big amp in a big room, little amp in a little room. Real acoustic feedback is a major ingredient in his sound, which I find much cleaner than many most of the time, since Wish You Were Here. But he's the only one I know anything about.

                              I think the "sound" that most of us are really chasing is something largely out of reach, due to grumpy neighbors, families, and friendly neighborhood law enforcement... But I keep on trying, anyway; sucks to the neighbors!

                              Justin
                              "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                              "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                              "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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