Why didn't Ampeg amps become more popular?

[Justin Thomas]

First "Ampeg" amp: 1946. First Ampeg-branded amp: 1948. First "Fender" amp: 1946. First Fender-branded amp: 1948.

Last year an Ampeg featured an Input labeled "ACCORDION": 1973 or 74, on the mighty GU-12. Which was the EXACT same amp as Ampeg's last Accordion amp, the AC-12. They just took out the negative feedback loop.

I don't think it had as much to do with chronology of the companies (they were basically contemporaries) as the willingness (or lack thereof) of the owners to work with the musicians of the day. Leo brought in POPULAR musicians for consultation, of many styles - he didn't care WHAT you played, as long as you did it on a Fender. He also understood aiming at EVERY level of musician - Champ to Twin. Everett Hull brought in JAZZ musicians. We can probably tell which there are more of, and when you are trying to run a growing company to reach a broad customer base, there has to be SOME provision for pleasing as many people as possible.

There's an anecdote about a harmless pop-rock group visiting Ampeg sometime in the mid-60s, and Mr. Hull told the associate with them, "get them out of here by lunch."

I think it's THAT attitude that killed Ampeg, or at least put them at a severe disadvantage. By the time the opposition to Loud Crunchy Guitar got out of the way, Fender and Marshall were already ruling the world... Ampeg was set free to embrace R&R way too late. They also suffered the ravages of the mid-60s buyouts and mergers, but where Fender was bought by a legitimate firm with money to put behind the company, Ampeg was bought by an investment firm who didn't know what the hell they were doing...

Justin

[Leo_Gnardo]

There's an anecdote about a harmless pop-rock group visiting Ampeg sometime in the mid-60s, and Mr. Hull told the associate with them, "get them out of here by lunch."

If I'm not mistook, that was The 1910 Fruit Gum Company. No matter, their arc of popularity was over by lunch time anyway. Probably replaced by The Strawberry Alarm Clock... Thank goodness "Bubblegum Music" had a very short lifespan.

[Justin Thomas]

Correct on the band! But even though their popularity may have been over by lunchtime, maybe they'd have put some cash in Ampeg's coffers had they stayed for dinner... When a business starts dictating who can and cannot purchase their goods, they're in a bad spot. Not saying they won't make it, but you might want step back and ask if your prejudices and principles are really worth hanging onto!

Justin

[rjb]

Why are Ampeg amps not that popular and where did all the vintage ones go?

Most of them are still in New Jersey, used by accordion and Cordovox players who play in Italian wedding party and/or Polish polka bands. And everyone who still owns one of these has a fliptop to go with it.

[Enzo]

And Silvertone? They were cheap to buy, and sold in every Sears store as well as from their catalog nationwide.

[Leo_Gnardo]

And Silvertone? They were cheap to buy, and sold in every Sears store as well as from their catalog nationwide.

I dunno how it was in Michigan & nearby, but there was a period around here when repair shops didn't take Silvertones seriously. If it wasn't an easy fix, tadadump tadadump tadadump dump dump. Same for Airlines, Dano's & similar. I'm afraid a lot of now prized Jensen speakers went that way too. It took until the early 90's for that to change, meanwhile the landfills loaded up with broken cheap but charming amps. Now it's "fix at any cost" in most cases, and the most humble of amps often trade for $300 - 400 - 500(!).

[Enzo]

It has always been that way. Junk toys we had in the 1950s are now collectors items. Or unopened vinyl records. Or...or...

[bob p]

Leo, I think part of the reason that service people were so eager to scrap Silvertones and similar Dano and Valco amps was because they were inexpensive amps that were built with true PTP construction, and those particular amps used a lot of vertical stacking of parts in a tight space. My Twin Twelve chassis is long and narrow, and it seems rather deep compared to a Fender when I'm working on it. I feel like I'm trying to do knitting while sticking my arms into a hole.

The labor cost for rewiring a Twin Twelve would be huge. On an amp like that just about any fix becomes expensive in time charges. Compare that to the ease of working on a Fender eyelet board in it's wide open spaces and it's easy to see why things happened the way they did ... those eyelet boards and wide open Fender chassis are a dream to work on. Some of the reasons that Fenders came to rule the market are because they sounded good, they were well built and easy to service. Of course I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

One of the reasons I'm so fond of old electronic gear is because it can be serviced to last a lifetime, rather than being set out on the curb on garbage day like today's consumer electronics. The problem is that back in the day the cheap amps like the Dano and Valco products weren't intended to last a lifetime. They were just the disposable electronics of their day.

I ended up doing a dumpster dive of sorts to get my Twin Twelve. I was volunteering at a senior center, helping to clean up after a broken radiator flooded the gym. I found that Silvertone head sitting on a shelf in the boiler room, caked with bits of plaster and plaster dust. As we were mopping up the facility's director decided it was in the way and going into the garbage ... it had been there for years and nobody wanted it. So I took it home that day. It ended up having a loose volume knob on the front panel and a bad 6L6. Other than that it was just fine.

Back in the day many people would scrap cheap amps when they only needed to be retubed. If that amp had been given the proper TLC it would have been put back into service at a minimal cost.

[Axtman]

I would like to officially semi-retract what I said. I stopped in at my local vintage guitar store and was amazed at how many vintage Ampeg amps they had on the floor. Though it did not measure up to the amazing assortment of vintage Fender amps. There were even a few vintage Gibson amps.

[olddawg]

I remember putting six 1484 chassis in a dumpster. They didn’t have a 70’s-80s sound, we’re cheap, and weren’t worth putting tubes in... much less fixing. We would use the speakers in home made wedge monitors until they blew. VOXs were the same way... especially the Super Beatles. AC30s always had some value, but anything else was just landfill. I tossed a lot of VOX stuff. Even Magnatones were just Goodwill Store amps.

[Chuck H]

Even Magnatones were just Goodwill Store amps.

I've actually been impressed with some of the Magnatone designs. Though I've never had the opportunity to play through or work on one. So I can't say if they were cheaply constructed or how they actually sounded, but from a design perspective, looking at schematics, I saw many of their circuits as "ideas" and out of the box as well as being reasonably eloquent. Since they're not coveted like some other brands I can only assume they weren't hitting the mark with the gen pop. But I've always been intrigued.

[The Dude]

I overhauled a Magnatone for a customer a while back. I forget the model, but it was a stereo amp with a true stereo tremolo that was very cool. The thing sounded really wide with the tremolo engaged.

Edit: Ooh! I found it. It was a 280 like the brown one here.

MagnatoneAmps.com

[bob p]

I recently noticed a Magnatone like that one sitting on the bandstand on one of the late night TV talk shows. I don't remember whose talk show it was, I was just channel surfing and noticed that someone had an old Magnatone, which I thought was cool. Their vibratos were good. I think they're being reissued now.

[J M Fahey]

In fact the very successful and respected JC120 stereo chorus thingie series is "a Solid State version of Magnatone".
Exact same concept: a clean "Jazzy" amp with true stereo vibrato (not tremolo but the true phase shifting type) which was complex to make with tubes and specially with hard to setup varistors used as modulators, but easy peasy with FETs (the original JC were based on them) and Chorus-in-a-box ICs.

From:
MagnatoneAmps.com

The key component to the Magnatone design was the varistor. At minimum, the design required three triode sections and for the more advanced, six triode sections were required.

[drewl]

Wasn't it because Ampeg gave the Stones the stuff for free, while Hiwatt wanted them to pay for them?
You know how cheap Mick was/is.

Having owned a VT40, they are killer amps. Crank it and it has that wonderful tubes on fire/melting sound like "Can't you hear me knockin"

Some of the very early Ampegs just seemed cheap in comparison to Fenders of the early 60's.
Crappy wood cabinets and flimsy chassis. Silvertone would be a good comparison.

And don't get me started on the oddball tubes.

I have like one of each of the compactrons, for testing only since they're pretty microphonic.