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1967 Super Reverb sounds harsh

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  • #31
    Originally posted by bob p View Post
    And as good as my ears may be, they can't tell a Vibrolux from a Super on a recording.
    Well what is a Super Reverb other than a Vibrolux Reverb with 4 speakers instead of 2. Generally you're putting the mic on one speaker so yes they would be hard to tell apart.

    On that Badfinger TV video I can hear out of tune guitars & performance errors, also I can see a mic on one of the amps so I believe it is really a live performance, not a lip sync.
    This isn't the future I signed up for.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
      Well what is a Super Reverb other than a Vibrolux Reverb with 4 speakers instead of 2. Generally you're putting the mic on one speaker so yes they would be hard to tell apart.
      Yes, that's my point. The VR and the SR both had the same circuit with clean preamps and clean 6L6 based power amps, and they both used the same low power 10" drivers. The difference was 2 vs. 4 speakers, and the effect that you'd get from speaker distortion, as both amps used cheap 10" speakers where the speakers would start distorting before the amp distorted. My position is that even if you have dog ears you'd never be able to tell a 2x10 from a 4x10 when the amps are being mic'd.

      I also think that the TV performance was live. When I compare it to the pressed recordings I also think the performances are different. I had originally thought about posting a video of the studio recording but I decided not to do that, primarily because I preferred the TV video that showed them both playing Supers.
      "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

      "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TigerAmps View Post
        TOne guy plugged a stock mid 1960's strat into my '64 Super Reverb and was disappointed in the distortion and sustain (or lack there of). He normally played a Les Paul into Marshall Super Lead 100's.
        I prefer to say he's a fancy pud But seriously, even a guy with a preference, if he/she is a real player, should be able to plug into an amp like that and instead of thinking "I'm disappointed in the lack of distortion and sustain" should think "Wow! What a cool vibe this amp has for THAT tone. I'm having a $h!t ton of fun noodling around with it."

        To put it another way, if you're the sort of player that would plug into ANY amp that is known for it's tone, and therefor you know what to expect, and therefor you shouldn't judge it based on criteria for something it's not, and you find no merit in it, you are a pathetically limited player and artist. I consider myself a limited player and artist and I have no trouble appreciating and enjoying the tonal experience of playing through the venerated tone machines.
        "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

        "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

        "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
        You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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        • #34
          Anyone who plugs a mid 60's strat into a proper '64 Super Reverb and is disappointed, doesn't know much about much.
          It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Randall View Post
            Anyone who plugs a mid 60's strat into a proper '64 Super Reverb and is disappointed, doesn't know much about much.
            Right! And if your a guitar player how could you know NOTHING about THAT!?!
            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

            Comment


            • #36
              I think that some of what Chuck is talking about (the hate thing) has to do with peoples' changing guitar idol benchmarks for tone. Times have changed. The metal kids like different tones than us classic rock old farts, and they don't even have the same guitar heroes. It's no surprise that they don't want the same amps, or think that our favorite amps suck.

              I haven't heard a lot of records today that are being produced with that classic Fender amp sound. Many players don't need it or find it useful. It won't thrash so they don't want the amp. Today the kids are happy with plugging into Pods or modelling amps and their guitar hero probably used a digital effects station that was DI'd, sampled, and re-amped. I can think of a lot of fast chuka-chuka rhythm and riff playing on current guitar records, but I can't remember the last time I heard a new record that featured sonic bloom.

              If someone is looking for modern tones I can understand why they might say that an old Fender amp sucks. All it takes is a trip to Guitar Center to see what the young kids are playing and you'll know what I mean. When I start playing they can't even associate the song with the artist who made it famous. I'm that funny old square dude in the corner. When I tried doing a little call and response by trading licks with a kid on the other side of the guitar department, I tried to match his chukka-chukka thrashing by playing "Eruption." The kid stopped playing and nudged his friend who said, "Hey! That's the theme from Guitar Hero!" They both laughed. When I said it was Van Halen they looked at me like I had horns. They had no clue who he was because Van Halen is now a has-been. It was my fault. "Van Halen I" came out in 1978. Almost 40 years ago. Their mothers weren't even born yet.

              <Sigh.>


              This can only mean that your BF Fender has topped out in price appreciation -- All of the people who might be interested in buying it probably have one already, and as they start to die off the amps won't bring as much because none of the kids will want them. I'm a seller now.
              Last edited by bob p; 01-10-2018, 02:46 AM.
              "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

              "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

              Comment


              • #37
                But it's still the chosen sound to represent "Guitar Hero" Maybe these kids, like us, will look into HOW those tones were made and try to recreate it.?. One can hope. And, incidentally, the reason we have pretty decent vintage Fender type tones on some recordings today isn't that it's old timers with vintage amps playing studio gun. It's because the reissue Fender amps actually sound pretty damn good. And that can't hurt either. A recent poll of the ten best guitar amps in Guitar Player magazine included two vintage reissue models and two vintage style (as in NOT channel switching) boutique amps. That's 40% of the top ten representing the real deal as "we" see it here on the forum. I think that's pretty good. And encouraging. Unfortunately the ubiquitous Line 6 made the list at number ten. That's down on the top ten list, but it still puts a digital modeler in the top ten.
                "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                Comment


                • #38
                  Maybe there's a selection bias. Guitar Hero was developed for "kids" by "old people". And I'm willing to bet that GP has some old farts on the editorial staff. Old farts like old designs, the designs of their youth.

                  And I'm wiling to bet that one of the reasons that boutique builders build simple amps is because they don't want to put all the R&D expense into developing modern modelling amps or amps with "complicated" channel switching on PCBs. Developing those kinds of amps costs a lot more than soldering up a boutique Fender or Marshall circuit derivative on an eyelet board and calling it "point to point".

                  On the subject of the vintage reissue Fenders, I'm glad we have them. But I'm not sure that the Fender marketing guys are building them for the same reason that you or I like them. To be honest, I don't think the marketing guys at Fender are just doing the same thing that Marshall did with the reissues. They realized that their modern amps were selling at a price below what their vintage amps were selling for, and they wanted a cut of that fatter vintage amp money. So they created a line of vintage reissue amps and priced them a lot higher than the modern amps, but they aren't really any more expensive to make. I think the vintage reissues are all about fat profit margin. If the vintage amps couldn't bring higher prices I think they wouldn't bother selling anything other than Hot Rod Deluxes and Devilles.
                  Last edited by bob p; 01-10-2018, 03:46 AM.
                  "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                  "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    MY pedal board has 12 pedals. OH yeah? MY pedal board has an even 20. Foo, you kids, If you don;t have at least 24, you are nobody. 40 years ago no one had huge pedal boards. No one wants to sound like a Fender any more, they want to sound like Green Day, or whoever the current generic band might be.

                    "What setting should I put on my Gorilla to get that Terry Kath sound?"


                    (I can't believe I even typed that...)
                    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                      MY pedal board has 12 pedals. OH yeah? MY pedal board has an even 20. Foo, you kids, If you don;t have at least 24, you are nobody. 40 years ago no one had huge pedal boards. No one wants to sound like a Fender any more, they want to sound like Green Day, or whoever the current generic band might be.

                      "What setting should I put on my Gorilla to get that Terry Kath sound?"


                      (I can't believe I even typed that...)
                      You´ll be surprised

                      Why spend U$50000 on a Dumble when there are 6 (six, count´em) which claim to give you exact same sound for ... what? ... U$200 to 400?

                      Pocket change:

                      The Dumble Legend: 6 Boxes That Get it Right | Tone Report

                      So you can thank me for saving you U$49600 or more
                      Juan Manuel Fahey

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        Maybe there's a selection bias. Guitar Hero was developed for "kids" by "old people". And I'm willing to bet that GP has some old farts on the editorial staff. Old farts like old designs, the designs of their youth.
                        But the kids like it anyway.

                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        And I'm wiling to bet that one of the reasons that boutique builders build simple amps is because they don't want to put all the R&D expense into developing modern modelling amps or amps with "complicated" channel switching on PCBs. Developing those kinds of amps costs a lot more than soldering up a boutique Fender or Marshall circuit derivative on an eyelet board and calling it "point to point".
                        That's about as untrue as it can be. Of course, you have to be a company with some clout but it's much cheaper to R&D an amp of ANY design and then have them churned out overseas. Designing an uber gain channel switcher isn't as hard as all that. And the cottage industry guys aren't only selling clones. They have R&D too. You'll need to trust me om this one. I've been on both sides of that coin in real life. I'll concede that the R&D that goes into a mass production amp could well be greater than what goes into a small builders individual design because the expense can't be spread over ten thousand units. But R&D never sleeps with the small operations and those guys often continue to refine and develop their flagship models rather than abandoning them in favor of current trends. In the end you can have a very refined product indeed. Also, some of the smaller guys are so good at designing that they can STILL make a superior product. Witness Suhr and Fuchs. And both use PCB's, not eyelets

                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        On the subject of the vintage reissue Fenders, I'm glad we have them. But I'm not sure that the Fender marketing guys are building them for the same reason that you or I like them. To be honest, I don't think the marketing guys at Fender are just doing the same thing that Marshall did with the reissues. They realized that their modern amps were selling at a price below what their vintage amps were selling for, and they wanted a cut of that fatter vintage amp money. So they created a line of vintage reissue amps and priced them a lot higher than the modern amps, but they aren't really any more expensive to make. I think the vintage reissues are all about fat profit margin.
                        Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine.?. The bottom line, no matter how you slice it, they're giving the people what they want. Because if people didn't want them they wouldn't be able to sell them. You have to do that as a company to the exclusion, if necessary, of personal ideals if you hope to stick around. And my point above was that people want them.
                        "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                        "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                        "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                        You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bob p View Post
                          I can't see the amps in this video, but the tone is unmistakable.

                          I used to play No Matter What in my band but I haven't played in a band since 2008. I miss it
                          Never mind, carry on. I'm just thinking out loud.

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                          • #43
                            IIRC, the SR has different value caps in the tone stack, and the % of NFB is different, owing to the usual resistor values being used with an OPT with a different turns ration. I wonder if this is why I generally prefer the SR to the other Fenders?

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                            • #44
                              All I know is, I had 6 BF Fenders in my little shop at the same time last week, all owned by "old farts". They represent 90% of my business, I hardly see a young guy with a modern amp. I just took in a 66 Supro 2x12 that may be the cleanest vintage amp I ever laid eyes on. The guy paid a premium for it, because he just retired and has the coin, and this amp doesn't look like has every even been played it is so clean. A joy for me to play with. point being, these old amps aren't going away anytime soon.
                              It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Randall View Post
                                Anyone who plugs a mid 60's strat into a proper '64 Super Reverb and is disappointed, doesn't know much about much.
                                Ahhh, some guitar players are 'tone guys'. They get used to, are or looking for what is to them the holy grail sound. They can go through a dozen or 20 of the same amp same year and hear little things that I sure can't hear.
                                The only good solid state amp is a dead solid state amp. Unless it sounds really good, then its OK.

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