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Any small- pedal size guitar Power amplifier layout?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tedsorvino View Post
    Thanks a lot but I just need a power amp since I already have a superb ss pedal pre amp and several other pedal stuff (klon etc).
    So just a plain POWER amp. Nothing more.
    And preferably something that will cost under or around 100 euros. Otherwise it has to be something really amazing.
    I have never had any luck running a guitar preamp or pedalboard into a hi-fi audio power amp — perhaps someone here has had better luck as I have not tried doing it for many years — which is why I suggested something like an MXR 10-band EQ with input and output sliders ahead of an audio power amp.

    BTW I forgot to mention that the Vox MV50 amps use a real dual triode vacuum tube (a Korg NuTube with a rectangular plastic "bottle") in the preamp section. IMO the NuTube technology is the biggest advance in vacuum tubes since perhaps the 1950s... I can't wait for them to become readily available at a decent price for the DIY community!

    https://korgnutube.com/en/

    Steve A.

    P.S. So do you have a real Klon or a Klone? I bought a modded EHX Soul Food pedal with a switch for germanium diodes (or no diodes at all) plus a Bass control... one of my favorite "dirt" pedals which has wonderfully enhanced clean tones, too!

    P.P.S. The datasheet mentioned in the FAQ excerpt below is NOT available on the NuTube webpage. I had to request one by pretending that Blue Guitar is a company. Hopefully they will send me the link to the file which I will post here at MEF.



    [ATTACHED=CONFIG]48950[/ATTACH]
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Steve A.; 05-24-2018, 10:55 PM.
    The Blue Guitar
    www.blueguitar.org
    Some recordings:
    https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
    .

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
      I have never had any luck running a guitar preamp or pedalboard into a hi-fi audio power amp — perhaps someone here has had better luck as I have not tried doing it for many years — which is why I suggested something like an MXR 10-band EQ with input and output sliders ahead of an audio power amp.
      Sure, using hi fi amps has been done, and most famously by some of your Bay area neighbors back in 1973-74. In the lower photo you'll see five McIntosh MC2300 stereo power amps, just a fraction of the collection they used. I've done much smaller rigs for guitar, bass & keyboard systems. Of course there's no prohibition, and no shame, in using signal conditioning equipment like the graphic EQ you suggest to dial in the tone as necessary for the musos & audience.

      This isn't the future I signed up for.

      Comment


      • #18
        Ah, the "wall of sound". An interesting fact about that sound system: Instead of separating instruments merely by a subgroup on a mixer and sharing amps and speakers like they do with current sound systems, each instrument and vocals had their own complete independent sound system. In other words, guitar came out of some speakers, bass others, vocals others, etc. An interesting concept in live sound production.
        "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Dude View Post
          Ah, the "wall of sound". An interesting fact about that sound system: Instead of separating instruments merely by a subgroup on a mixer and sharing amps and speakers like they do with current sound systems, each instrument and vocals had their own complete independent sound system. In other words, guitar came out of some speakers, bass others, vocals others, etc. An interesting concept in live sound production.
          Right, they did have a mixer for vocals, and the semi-cylinder of 10 inch speakers plus EV tweeters midstage carried that. A mini version of the cylinder served piano above stage right. The mixer was an early Gamble with 18 channels. I had a chance to buy it - cheap - about 30 years ago. Drat & I should'a done it. Some well heeled aging Dead head would probably have paid a fortune for that relic. Oh well.... sic semper estimated profits.

          In any case this is all a thousand times bigger than the sort of system they're trying to hash out in this discussion so I'll butt out & leave 'em to it.
          This isn't the future I signed up for.

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          • #20
            Sorry for , but one more quick interesting tidbit. I found a graphic of what speakers did what in the system. It's certainly an unconventional approach to live sound.

            Click image for larger version

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            "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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            • #21
              Some of these look like decent projects.

              Something like this could even accommodate a stereo out from chorus or delays on the pedalboard.
              Valvulados

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              • #22
                You don't know what it's like to have Attention Defi... hey look, there's a squirrel!

                Way
                Originally posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
                In the lower photo you'll see....
                Because I've lived under a rock all my life, I was about to ask... but found the answer myself.
                Click image for larger version

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                We now return to the program in progress...

                -rb
                DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

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                • #23
                  Take a look here:
                  https://tonereport.com/blogs/tone-ti...-on-your-board

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                  • #24
                    I broadly categorize guitar players into two camps; Ones that steadfastly refuse to mic up their amps and rely on a narrow death-ray of sound from a loud setup to deafen one side of the audience, and ones that use the PA for the 'heavy lifting' and have a balanced sound and low-to-moderate stage volume. That doesn't mean to imply that the latter don't have larger setups, it's just that they don't run them to military levels. I have a customer with a 200w 4xKT88 amp and 2 2x12" cabs. I set it up with him to the level he has live and I had to ask him twice if he was certain that's where he has it - I measured just a little over 12W. All of his drive and EQ comes from his pedalboard. I have another setup that was used two years ago at the Reading festival, a Tone King Imperial used clean, again with all the drive from pedals. I checked the output and it was peaking at 9W. The owner asked me if he could turn it up (he usually has it at about 3 1/2 to 4 on the lead channel). He got the volume to 8 and said he'd never had it turned up so loud. This is a guy that plays all over the world to some very large crowds.

                    By contrast some of the pub setups fall into the first category. A few weeks ago I had a 100w stack with 2 4x12" cabs and a boost pedal that made 156w. The guy said he always plays it at that level regardless. It was way to loud for me even with my best ear defenders (used for marshalling jets on aircraft carriers).

                    So, a pedalboard-sized amp comes down to what you want to achieve. Bear in mind that a typical Marshall 100W amp will deliver about 80W before clipping. If your sound comes from pedals and you just need some volume, are you relying on numbers to come up with a power output; is 50w-100w what you actually need? Most players I see are actually running about 18-20w actual clean volume that rely on pedalboards for sound. That's a big difference in sizing, power requirements and heat dissipation.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                      I broadly categorize guitar players into two camps; Ones that steadfastly refuse to mic up their amps and rely on a narrow death-ray of sound from a loud setup to deafen one side of the audience, and ones that use the PA for the 'heavy lifting' and have a balanced sound and low-to-moderate stage volume. That doesn't mean to imply that the latter don't have larger setups, it's just that they don't run them to military levels. I have a customer with a 200w 4xKT88 amp and 2 2x12" cabs. I set it up with him to the level he has live and I had to ask him twice if he was certain that's where he has it - I measured just a little over 12W. All of his drive and EQ comes from his pedalboard. I have another setup that was used two years ago at the Reading festival, a Tone King Imperial used clean, again with all the drive from pedals. I checked the output and it was peaking at 9W. The owner asked me if he could turn it up (he usually has it at about 3 1/2 to 4 on the lead channel). He got the volume to 8 and said he'd never had it turned up so loud. This is a guy that plays all over the world to some very large crowds.

                      By contrast some of the pub setups fall into the first category. A few weeks ago I had a 100w stack with 2 4x12" cabs and a boost pedal that made 156w. The guy said he always plays it at that level regardless. It was way to loud for me even with my best ear defenders (used for marshalling jets on aircraft carriers).

                      So, a pedalboard-sized amp comes down to what you want to achieve. Bear in mind that a typical Marshall 100W amp will deliver about 80W before clipping. If your sound comes from pedals and you just need some volume, are you relying on numbers to come up with a power output; is 50w-100w what you actually need? Most players I see are actually running about 18-20w actual clean volume that rely on pedalboards for sound. That's a big difference in sizing, power requirements and heat dissipation.
                      I run into this conundrum constantly. I generally, anymore, use a (maybe) 20 watt open back combo with one inefficient 12” speaker and a speaker attenuator so I can crank it and (maybe) mic it slightly. The guy across from me plays an Ibanez with EMGs into an old VHF wireless into a processor rack into a Marshall rack preamp into the main amp input on a JCM 2000 into an oversized 4x12” sealed cab... AND uses a DI into the PA off of the preamp. I say in small clubs use a small amp with a equivalent extension cab on the other side each. Automatic stage balance and level. But it will never happen. The guy has to have HIS rig to get HIS tone and has absolutely no conceptions how the pile actually works together. That the VHF wireless is a white noise generator. That the wireless and the buffer on the a/d converter on the processor doesn’t care about his EMGs. That a rack preamp isn’t necessary. I doubt that 100 watt JCM2000 ever gets pushed past 20 Watts. Certainly not clipping. But it’s one hissy effected bucket of bees going into it most of the time, lol! The damn pig of a cab is VERY directional so it hard to hear unless you are standing in front of it. I hate the sound of it in the monitors. But it’s always like this. Guitarist get pissed off if you try to explain anything to them. It’s like “speak English!” Or.. but “but the preamp has a tube in it”.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by olddawg View Post
                        The guy has to have HIS rig to get HIS tone and has absolutely no conceptions how the pile actually works together....But it’s always like this. Guitarist get pissed off if you try to explain anything to them.
                        That personality disorder is not exclusive to guitarists. Hell, I play with a fiddler who reminds me of your bud.

                        -rb
                        Last edited by rjb; 05-27-2018, 06:36 AM.
                        DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Well, here it´s different, in Argentina people play LOUD, everywhere, from Pub to Stadium.
                          Very good reason behind that being that both we have very good drummers all over the place and they are respected and given free reign.
                          Best ones even play in more than one band, go figure, and nobody complains; my granddaughter´s Father plays in 3: a Metallica type band, a Punk one, he plays full blast in both, and a modern Techno Pop one, where he plays somewhat softer, because much of the Music is synthetic Notebook-into-PA stuff. And even so .....

                          So they *do* play loud, nobody even dreams of asking them to play softer, and rest of musicians simply gear up to match them ... and rise own volume as needed.

                          That means at least a 2 bottle (6L6 or EL34 of course, 6V6 are unknown here and "EL84 are for sissies") amp full blast at least into a "good" 12" (think Celestion G12T - V30 ; Eminence Legend or one of my own 12") preferrably 2 x 12" combo (Laney/Peavey/Crate) or straight into a 4 x 12" ... the "kid´s dream made true".

                          My own bread and butter amp, sold steadily since 1970 or so, more than 10000 of them by now, is an SS 100W head into 2 x 12" cabinet.
                          Which of course can be used at any level keeping sound the same, obviously all Tone comes from preamp, not much Mojo in 2N3055 or TIP142/147
                          That said, it also has a "sweet spot" and I chose it to be around 6 or 7 Volume setting which means "quite loud" and that so "Musicians use it as-if it were a Tube amp".
                          Juan Manuel Fahey

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
                            Well, here it´s different, in Argentina people play LOUD, everywhere, from Pub to Stadium.
                            Very good reason behind that being that both we have very good drummers all over the place and they are respected and given free reign.
                            Best ones even play in more than one band, go figure, and nobody complains; my granddaughter´s Father plays in 3: a Metallica type band, a Punk one, he plays full blast in both, and a modern Techno Pop one, where he plays somewhat softer, because much of the Music is synthetic Notebook-into-PA stuff. And even so .....

                            So they *do* play loud, nobody even dreams of asking them to play softer, and rest of musicians simply gear up to match them ... and rise own volume as needed.

                            That means at least a 2 bottle (6L6 or EL34 of course, 6V6 are unknown here and "EL84 are for sissies") amp full blast at least into a "good" 12" (think Celestion G12T - V30 ; Eminence Legend or one of my own 12") preferrably 2 x 12" combo (Laney/Peavey/Crate) or straight into a 4 x 12" ... the "kid´s dream made true".

                            My own bread and butter amp, sold steadily since 1970 or so, more than 10000 of them by now, is an SS 100W head into 2 x 12" cabinet.
                            Which of course can be used at any level keeping sound the same, obviously all Tone comes from preamp, not much Mojo in 2N3055 or TIP142/147
                            That said, it also has a "sweet spot" and I chose it to be around 6 or 7 Volume setting which means "quite loud" and that so "Musicians use it as-if it were a Tube amp".
                            Maybe making generalizations for a whole country is a reach .. and maybe it’s a cultural shift/demographic thing Juan? Back in the day we said “If it’s too loud you are too old!”. I remember my drummers using the back ends of their sticks and always having a stack, lol. But as far as clubs go where I play nowadays mostly... the drummer sets the stage volume and isn’t a monster (maybe because he’s old too ). If you are too loud you don’t get asked back. It’s about bar sales and not pissing off the owner/manager.. AND they are usually out front with a dB meter because of noise ordinances. You can’t drive people out and you can’t break the law. And with a “house” pa you have no idea how many times a sound guy has told me that the level on the FIVE WATT amp I was using cranked a while back had to come down. It’s why I started using an attenuator. Doesn’t seem to be a local phenomenon either. I live on the West Coast. Last week I was hanging out in NYC at Cafe Wah. The “House Band” had 3 Deluxe Reverbs. I was worried at first because in the bar light before they started I thought they were Twins and I was seated up front. Doesn’t mean large gear doesn’t have its place. Very large rooms or huge outdoor events, yeah. But I’ve had several bass players and even drummers say I’m to loud with my small open back rig and prefer to be next to the skyscraper on the other side of the stage. I just assume it was his closed back cab being more directional and me not being overcompressed with some bite. A lot of people tend to confuse bite and clarity with volume.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tedsorvino View Post
                              Thanks a lot but I just need a power amp since I already have a superb ss pedal pre amp and several other pedal stuff (klon etc).
                              So just a plain POWER amp. Nothing more.
                              And preferably something that will cost under or around 100 euros. Otherwise it has to be something really amazing.
                              I knew I saw this somewhere, so I called a local musician & this is what he bought.

                              MicroBlock 45 | Quilter Performance Amplification

                              45 watts the size of a standard pedal.
                              Power supply is 24 volts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
                                I knew I saw this somewhere, so I called a local musician & this is what he bought.

                                MicroBlock 45 | Quilter Performance Amplification

                                45 watts the size of a standard pedal.
                                Power supply is 24 volts.
                                Quilter MicroBlock 45 45W Guitar Amp Head https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDYB3QG..._CmYcBb6RERWK0

                                Yeah I was going to second that... the only issue is the power supply is larger than the pedal. It’s like a laptop supply and probably why they don’t show it. But it comes with the pedal for that price.

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