Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 36 to 44 of 44

Thread: Active electronics is guitar?

  1. #36
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    10,184
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 219/3
    Given: 239/4
    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    Yea, I've got all that. What I don't get is how a preamp can make a Tele sound like a Les Paul. I must be missing something.

    -rb
    A *buffer* will not change sound, unity gain flat band by definition, but removing huge cable capacitance will let highs reach the amp, instead of dying along the path.
    This will be perceived as "treble boost" although it isnīt so.

    Now a *preamp* can do anything you design it to, from any amount of gain to any EQ you fancy.

    Nobody said "it will sound like a Les Paul" but for example preamps built into a Fender Elite or Eric Clapton are labelled: "mid boost" which gives you a hint they are not flat at all.

    I checked the Fender preamp:


    and itīs easy to see that:
    a) itīs a discrete Op Amp.
    *Maybe* when they designed it 20/30 years ago they didnīt find an Op Amp which was both low power, low noise and low power consumption, although I guess designer was just lazy or old school and did it the old way.
    FWIW design style is similar to what you find in old Japanese Squire amps same era so I wouldnīt be surprised this was also designed there.

    b) gain is 7X (100k/15k)+1 , and 100k is shunted by .001uF so gain is down 6 db at 1600Hz, so flat up to 800Hz ....midrange boost indeed.

    So it will not *clone* a LP by any means, but it may "replace" it in a song, easily having 2X/3X as much power as before, easily overdriving, say, a Plexi, with more midrange and NO "Fender sparkle/chime" at all.

    Besides, full gain boost is 25dB, which is firebreathing dragon gain by any means.

    It will easily surpass any EMG equipped guitar.

    On the other side, today almost forgotten Alembic Stratoblaster offered a HUGE Strat sound with no change in EQ:


    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Juan Manuel Fahey

  2. #37
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Just south of Bawlmer, Merlin
    Posts
    2,359
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 68/1
    Given: 52/1
    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    Nobody said "it will sound like a Les Paul"
    Well, not exactly. But somebody did say this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
    Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive.
    Thanks for your explanation:
    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    So it will not *clone* a LP by any means, but it may "replace" it in a song, easily having 2X/3X as much power as before, easily overdriving, say, a Plexi, with more midrange and NO "Fender sparkle/chime" at all.
    I'm satisfied with that.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts.
    - Dudley Do-Right

  3. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,653
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 24/0
    Given: 3/0
    Indeed, any so-called "clean booster" desperately needs a treble-cut control so that boosting to push the amp a little harder doesn't bring out harshness in the amp.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  4. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Barnegat,NJ
    Posts
    540
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4/0
    Given: 0/0
    There is another tone forming issue that gets little attention, transient response. The research shows that the first 30 milli-seconds of a transient affects the perception of the sound. https://www.researchgate.net/publica...sient_Response

    When a string is initially plucked its horizontal motion will generate increased second harmonics initially until the string rotates to the circular or oblong vibration pattern. Look at the Fender bass pickups with two poles per string, with the string located in the center of it's two pole pieces. The web posted reactions and feeling about these pickups is that they are less muddy than single pole bass pickups. What happens is that the initial horizontal string pulse passes each of string pole pieces once in a full cycle but generate an initial higher second harmonic above the fundamental note frequency with each side to side movement. So, as you can see it is not only equalization that affects the string sound, but also the mechanics of generating the sound with the magnet arrangement relative to the string position and initial string movement direction.

    I have always thought that using a 7 pole piece guitar pickups on 6 string guitar with the string location in between the pole pieces offered a different sound. This is mostly noticeable on the initial transient sound and helps cut through the sound of other instruments when playing live, not when sampling the pickup at low listening levels. I experimented with dual set of .125" diameter magnets (.5" long) per string and could see, on a scope, a definite increase in second harmonic signal on the initial transient.

    I just thought I would offer a new perspective on this interesting discussion. I really like active buffering to expand the tonal spectrum of passive pickups but pole piece location relative to the string is another alternative that should be discussed and considered as well.

    Joseph J. Rogowski

    3 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by bbsailor; 06-17-2018 at 04:25 PM.

  5. #40
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,253
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 18/0
    Given: 2/0
    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    Yea, I've got all that. What I don't get is how a preamp can make a Tele sound like a Les Paul. I must be missing something.

    -rb
    I never said it sounded like a Les Paul - what I said was "Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive." There are many aspects of the pickup's output that can be tailored to give a sound that's good enough to be a functional substitute for swapping guitars - especially where the song has been recorded with a single-coil rhythm and humbucker lead. Bear in mind that most people go to see a band to enjoy the music, not to carry out a forensic analysis of the sound.

    Here's an insight of this with Billy Gibbons rig where different guitars are EQ-profiled to sound as near to each other as possible (8:40 onwards);
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6DrxfrbbF8

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #41
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4,444
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 63/0
    Given: 55/0
    Not mentioned so far in the thread is the use of active electronics with a dummy coil to reduce the hum of a single coil pickup...

    Steve A.

    P.S. With the gain from an onboard preamp you can overdrive and shape the sound of a tele plugged into a BF/SF amp to resemble a Les Paul to some extent. As for a Tele being harsh and bright a great blues player explained to me how he would adjust the unnumbered tele knobs to get whatever sound he wanted... he never just set them to 10 and left them there. D'oh! I used to solder caps and resistors to the eyelets of some of my tele bridge pickups to smooth them out...

    While we usually associate Mike Bloomfield with the 1959 Les Paul he got from Dan Erlewine all of his recordings with Bob Dylan and many of them with Paul Butterfield featured him playing a tele. For one thing there is a lot in common between the middle blend position of both guitars.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  7. #42
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Just south of Bawlmer, Merlin
    Posts
    2,359
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 68/1
    Given: 52/1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
    Here's an insight of this with Billy Gibbons rig where different guitars are EQ-profiled to sound as near to each other as possible
    Wow. Owns well over 450 guitars and EQs them to all sound the same. I don't think I'll ever understand that.
    Think I'll stick to acoustics (mostly).

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  8. #43
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,253
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 18/0
    Given: 2/0
    On thought I had along the way when I was developing preamp circuits was if it would be feasible to take a hearing-aid board and adapt it for guitar use. They have low power requirements and many are programmable with EQ curves that can easily be customized via USB. Off-the-shelf programmable graphic EQ chips (either digital or resistor programmable analogue signal path) are quite bulky compared to those used in hearing aids.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #44
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Just south of Bawlmer, Merlin
    Posts
    2,359
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 68/1
    Given: 52/1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
    ...would be feasible to take a hearing-aid board and adapt it for guitar use
    In the U.S., you'd probably be required to have a prescription for it.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts.
    - Dudley Do-Right

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Circuits involve active electronics and a dummy coil.
    By Alan0354 in forum Pickup Makers
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 04-04-2018, 03:13 PM
  2. Question about active electronics (Brawley bass)
    By glebert in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-15-2018, 11:33 PM
  3. Automatic on/off switch for Active electronics
    By mainechuck in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-16-2012, 09:19 PM
  4. Beginning in Guitar Electronics
    By Jesuselpacifo in forum Music Electronics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-13-2011, 10:32 PM
  5. Onboard Active preamp for guitar?
    By nopainkiller in forum Music Electronics
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 10-06-2008, 08:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •