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  • #16
    Originally posted by Axtman View Post
    To answer my own question.....my thought is that bass players like a clean sound with lots of headroom...
    [Rant On]
    And then there is me. Screw that. I come from the Geddy Lee/John Entwistle/Lemmy school of bass playing. So I plug my Mustang Bass into a grungy old 50W Bassman head w. 2x15" CTS speakers. Sound guys bitch CONSTANTLY that I'm too loud. I usually play on 3. When I get to play on 4, though, (insert "heavenly angel choir" sound here). But you know what else? Folks all the way in the back can tell what notes I'm playing. I have zero problem slicing through a mix.

    For the record, I HATE that super clean hifi bass sound, and I hate the amps that help make it all possible. And what the $#!+ with all the "bass" cabinets & amps having HORNS? The SVT (the REAL ones, like the 70s) are the pinnacle of bass technology, followed by the B-15N, with the 400PS behind, but since I've never played one, maybe it's better. Lower power, EFFICIENT speakers, and lots of them, and who needs your battery-powered basses and kilowatt amps?

    9V batteries are for smoke detectors, transistor radios, and for making your bass sound like a transistor radio.

    [Rant Off]

    Justin
    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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    • #17
      Just for you Justin.


      Last edited by Chuck H; 06-13-2018, 01:36 PM.
      "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

      "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

      "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
      You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

      Comment


      • #18
        That musta put me in a really good mood, cuz I just danced across my kitchen several times. I haven't danced in 15 years!

        Justin
        "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
        "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
        "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

        Comment


        • #19
          @Justin Thomas
          Lots of bass players I know favor higher value pots and smaller caps in the passive electronics over going with active pups for gaining higher EQ in the mix. The impedence/tone suck problem is more easily addressed with active pups. It's all about trade-offs for circumstances.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
            Guitar amps are specifically designed to make guitar pickups sound a certain way and certainly NOT as reference amps. Most guitar amps would be much poorer reference amps than bass guitar amps for exactly this reason...
            And yet... the best compliment I ever got about one of my amps was my Spitfire clone built into a Stromberg-Carlson PA, with a lot of from you, Chuck...
            We were using it plugged into a Craigslist $10 4x10" Chinese speaker grqy-carpet-covered column cab, as a PA. My friend asked for a bit more highs in his vocals, and our acoustic player asked, "wait, you're Mic'ed?" So, even as a misapplied guitar amp, it still sounded more aesthetically pleasing than our actual PA, and obviously more natural a l and faithful to my friend's voice. So, reference amp or not, a guitar a small tube guitar amp makes a killer PA, too - the flaws inherent to the beast are what give it the sonic edge, specs be darned.

            Justin
            "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
            "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
            "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

            Comment


            • #21
              You ask a reasonable question. I suspect one of the reasons is that basses are less likely to be used with outboard pedals, other than for tone-shaping and maybe limiting/compression. That is, bassists often aim for the most straightforward, clearly audible, tone. Whatever they do stick into the instrument usually doesn't have much gain associated with it.

              In contrast, guitarists can often use a lot of effects. And that introduces some challenges. Whatever you stick in the guitar is always "first", with no way to re-arrange the order, so you better damn well like whatever is in that order because you're stuck with it. Many guitar-oriented effects can suck more battery-current, and nobody wants to keep changing batteries or have to remember to pull the cord out of the jack to disable the battery between sets.

              As well, a simple volume/treble/bass arrangement on a bass can be enough whereas most guitar effects can often benefit by adding juuuuuuuussst one or two more knobs or switches. By virtue of their longer-scale necks, bass bodies are generally bigger, offering more real estate to spread out controls. In contrast, guitars with onboard effects often have cramped spaces for knobs, or are forced to situate them where they are awkward to access. My advice to those wanting to stuff FX in their guitars is "If the effect can be better implemented on the floor than in the guitar, why put it in the guitar?"

              Having said all of that, an onboard low-gain preamp that can buffer long cables from the guitar to whatever the next-thing-in-line is, can be a real blessing. Of course, you have to like a nice bright crisp clean guitar signal for that to be true.

              Years back, I made myself a clone of an Ibanez TS0808 Tube Screamer. Could not for the life of me see what the big deal was. Pretty much hated it. Then, I got a new guitar that did NOT have the onboard preamp of the previous guitar, and suddenly the lights came on for me. The preamp only had a gain of 4x, but that was enough to render it nigh impossible to extract mild overdrive from the TS808. So that's something to keep in mind: guitar pedals are often designed in anticipation of a particular input signal level, and if the guitar outputs something hotter than that the outboard pedals may clip in undesirable ways.

              Comment


              • #22
                Don't forget, some guitar 'purists' strip all the controls out of their guitar and simply wire the pickup straight to the jack. No messin' with stuff, there. Then plugged into something loud.

                Tangentially, I saw Vintagekiki's recent post on a Fender vol/tone pedal. Looking at the schematic, I thought "why, I have one of those built right into my guitar!"

                Fender Vol/tone pedal
                If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by eschertron View Post
                  Tangentially, I saw Vintagekiki's recent post on a Fender vol/tone pedal. Looking at the schematic, I thought "why, I have one of those built right into my guitar!"

                  Fender Vol/tone pedal
                  I was given one of those pedals when I swapped out the pickups for Nashville studio musician Bobby Thompson's son's bass back in the late 70's. I was under the impression that it was designed for pedal steel which normally has no controls at all...

                  Steve A.
                  The Blue Guitar
                  www.blueguitar.org
                  Some recordings:
                  https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
                  .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
                    I was given one of those pedals when I swapped out the pickups for Nashville studio musician Bobby Thompson's son's bass back in the late 70's. I was under the impression that it was designed for pedal steel which normally has no controls at all...

                    Steve A.
                    Well, that would make sense, then. :stunned:
                    If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                    If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                    We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                    MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Steve,
                      thanks for chiming in. I was looking for the thread where you mentioned using the EMG afterburner as a built-in secret weapon. I had one in a squier strat a while back, a great way to turn my <1W 'living room' amp into a fire-breather.
                      If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                      If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                      We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                      MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by eschertron View Post
                        Steve,
                        thanks for chiming in. I was looking for the thread where you mentioned using the EMG afterburner as a built-in secret weapon. I had one in a squier strat a while back, a great way to turn my <1W 'living room' amp into a fire-breather.
                        My Charvel model 4 has a JE-1200 mid boost. I leave it at maximum settings either for single coil clean sounds or for humbucker distorted sounds, it just fattens up all the right frequencies.

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                        • #27
                          Many of the bass players I know use active electronics to increase the low-end when using older amps/speakers that have a roll-off that diminishes that low B fundamental on a 5-string or when using a detuned 4-string. Kind of a brute-force approach.

                          I fit preamps into guitars (mainly Teles) to give a more versatile instrument. The self-discharge rate of the battery is greater than the circuit's current consumption so lasts at least 5 years (mine has been in since 2011 and still works fine despite daily use) and a bypass toggle means flexibility and reliability. I position the amp between the selector and the volume/tone. This buffers the pickup output and gives a wider tone control operation. The mild boost just lifts the output for soloing, or gives a little more drive to an amp/pedal and more clarity. Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive.

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                          • #28
                            WRT bass players and pedals, thousands of bassists have posted to the "Post Your Pedal Board" threads on Talkbass.com:

                            https://www.talkbass.com/threads/pyp...ables.1063732/

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                              Many of the bass players I know use active electronics to increase the low-end when using older amps/speakers that have a roll-off that diminishes that low B fundamental on a 5-string or when using a detuned 4-string. Kind of a brute-force approach.

                              I fit preamps into guitars (mainly Teles) to give a more versatile instrument. The self-discharge rate of the battery is greater than the circuit's current consumption so lasts at least 5 years (mine has been in since 2011 and still works fine despite daily use) and a bypass toggle means flexibility and reliability. I position the amp between the selector and the volume/tone. This buffers the pickup output and gives a wider tone control operation. The mild boost just lifts the output for soloing, or gives a little more drive to an amp/pedal and more clarity. Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive.
                              Doesn't seem a whole lot different than having a TS or "Clean Boost" type pedal right after the guitar. I guess positioning it before the tone controls could have an affect.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                                I fit preamps into guitars (mainly Teles) to give a more versatile instrument.....This buffers the pickup output and gives a wider tone control operation....Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive.
                                I'm not getting it either. I would "think" the toggle would give you a choice between "standard Tele" and "really bright Tele" sound. ?????

                                -rb
                                DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

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