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Thread: These aren’t real... but it makes you wonder...

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    These aren’t real... but it makes you wonder...

    http://www.tvbdp.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=35

    Even the headstocks look fairly accurate except for the decals...

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    Makes you wonder how they get away with it.

    This $180 special edition pine Telecaster even has a Lollar Charlie Christian neck pickup!
    http://www.tvbdp.com/index.php?main_...roducts_id=914
    [EDIT: Quite a deal, considering that Jason charges $175 just for the pickup.]
    http://www.lollarguitars.com/lollar-...stian-for-tele

    This $109 Martin acoustic-electric costs $999 at Sweetwater. Those greedbags must have a 10x markup!
    http://www.tvbdp.com/index.php?main_...oducts_id=1835

    I do wonder how bad this stuff is. Anybody got some spare cash to find out?

    -rb

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    Last edited by rjb; 06-20-2018 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Fixed broken link
    My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts.
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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    When I first saw this site I first thought they were selling blems, seconds, or something. They flat out say Fender in the description. If you mess around enough you can see the headstocks. But there is no Fender log. Hardly a log at all and blurry... but they look right. I wonder what the quality really is? I'm tempted to buy one just to see!

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    Old Timer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    Makes you wonder how they get away with it.

    This $180 special edition pine Telecaster even has a Lollar Charlie Christian single-coil neck pickup! I wonder if Jason knows about that.
    http://www.tvbdp.com/index.php?main_...roducts_id=914

    This $109 Martin acoustic-electric costs $999 at Sweetwater. Those greedbags must have a 10x markup!
    http://www.tvbdp.com/index.php?main_...oducts_id=1835

    I do wonder how bad this stuff is. Anybody got some spare cash to find out?

    -rb
    Spare cash hahha sure you jest....

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    So you wouldn't have to hunt, I took a screenshot of one of the headstocks for your viewing pleasure.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    I'm tempted to buy one just to see!
    While you're at it, pick me up one of those Martin cutaways, OK?

    -rb

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    My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts.
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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Yep. I'll take a cherry burst Les Paul if we're submitting orders.

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    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

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    Scamadvisor.com gives the site a Trust Score of 4%. What could go wrong?
    https://www.scamadviser.com/is-tvbdp...fake-site.html

    -rb

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    My best guess is that they are Chinese fakes and would be confiscated by customs and end up in a dumpster somewhere at which point you'd have to try to get your money back. You might even have some litigation to contend with for ordering counterfeit merch. I wouldn't risk my $.

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    Old Timer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    Scamadvisor.com gives the site a Trust Score of 4%. What could go wrong?
    https://www.scamadviser.com/is-tvbdp...fake-site.html

    -rb
    What could go wrong the site is only a few days old....

    nosaj

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    That's why you use PayPal... but yeah.. I've had some decent luck using accurate knockoff parts lately. I'm not surprised they are being assembled and sold. As I've said before, I've seen unscrupulous local "builders" assembling from Chinese parts and charging for "boutique" instruments under their own name and saying they are made in USA. Wonder why Gibson is going under, lol!

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Well, I've been involved with PayPal disputes myself. Here's one experience.

    I bought an 8" tom via eBay. I got a 10" tom. The seller measured/listed it wrong. I already had a 10" tom and didn't need or want it. After several attempts to contact the seller and get a refund, I started a PayPal dispute. The seller provided a shipping receipt. PayPal said that, since it was shipped, I had no recourse and there was nothing they could do in the way of a refund. I argued with PayPal. I told them that, by their rules, the seller could have sent me a bar of soap and it would be just fine with them. They didn't care. Luckily, I made the payment with a Capitol One "no hassle" card. I just called them and reversed the charges after which PayPal temporarily banned me.

    I know, long story, but there is a point. If you ordered one of these guitars and the seller could show a shipping receipt, you'd be on the hook to pay whether it was in a dumpster at customs or not. At least, that's my experience.

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    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

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    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
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    You could pick up your guitar in your new...SUPERCAR!

    http://www.supereplicas.com/

    you never get either buuuuut the prices are excellent!

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    Tubewreck jmaf's Avatar
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    Factories in China and Korea build guitars for Western brands. A certain amount of guitars are produced extra, sold to the local market under no brand name. They're the exact same thing you buy in the West for 10X the price.

    These local circulation guitars should't get branded, ever. They're not supposed to be counterfeits, just made for the local market consumption with no brand.

    There are also rejects. The rejects are exact same thing as the "real" ones.

    What happens if you're a clever local businessman in this region and have some form of access to the factory? You buy decals...

    The real controversy here is the fact that some of the most famous guitars get branded and labeled "Made in XX" when they are not. Maybe some of the guitar was made somewhere, but the rest was made in a slave-labour factory out in the East.

    Ever since the far East entered the game, the game has never been the same. This began in the late 1980's in fact, and I have a feeling a lot of people are holding Chinese mahogany in their hands having paid for Western.

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    The pine Tele pictures are lifted off Fender promotional material. Exactly the same guitar can be seen here; https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-f...caster-natural.

    It looks like a scam and I wouldn't bother. I'd be interested to see what you actually get if anyone does order one.

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
    The pine Tele pictures are lifted off Fender promotional material. Exactly the same guitar can be seen here; https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/fender-f...caster-natural.

    It looks like a scam and I wouldn't bother. I'd be interested to see what you actually get if anyone does order one.
    What's odd is they are also selling Amps.. if you read the site comments people are taking a chance. Everything in the description seems to be taken from the Fender site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmaf View Post
    Factories in China and Korea build guitars for Western brands. ....
    The real controversy here is the fact that some of the most famous guitars get branded and labeled "Made in XX"
    Maybe so, but I happen to know that Martin guitars are still made in Nazareth Pa. It doesn't seem to make much sense to ship a guitar from Nazareth to Baltimore by way of Dongyang City.

    However, since some Fender products are built in Asia, one of those cheap Teles might be worth a shot.
    But if it arrives at all, don't be surprised if it looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -rb

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    Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
    You could pick up your guitar in your new...SUPERCAR!
    Remember these?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Here's a Chibson that even says "Made in USA" and has serial numbers!

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323297441396

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    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    That's why you use PayPal... but yeah.. I've had some decent luck using accurate knockoff parts lately. I'm not surprised they are being assembled and sold. As I've said before, I've seen unscrupulous local "builders" assembling from Chinese parts and charging for "boutique" instruments under their own name and saying they are made in USA. Wonder why Gibson is going under, lol!
    They only take credit cards.

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  21. #21
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Well, I've been involved with PayPal disputes myself. Here's one experience.

    I bought an 8" tom via eBay. I got a 10" tom. The seller measured/listed it wrong. I already had a 10" tom and didn't need or want it. After several attempts to contact the seller and get a refund, I started a PayPal dispute. The seller provided a shipping receipt. PayPal said that, since it was shipped, I had no recourse and there was nothing they could do in the way of a refund. I argued with PayPal. I told them that, by their rules,* the seller could have sent me a bar of soap and it would be just fine with them. They didn't care. Luckily, I made the payment with a Capitol One "no hassle" card. I just called them and reversed the charges after which PayPal temporarily banned me.

    I know, long story, but there is a point. If you ordered one of these guitars and the seller could show a shipping receipt, you'd be on the hook to pay whether it was in a dumpster at customs or not. At least, that's my experience.
    I had similar experiences in the past but since that time eBay has revised their money back guarantee policy. It used to be that they would try to collect from the seller and if they balked you were tough shit out of luck.

    So far I have used their new policy 3 times and was reimbursed what I paid with the seller paying for return shipping. You must present your case to eBay which they review and make a decision. I guess it helps that I have 250+ positive feedback ratings...

    I started a new claim this week for an item that USPS said was delivered in their tracking notice but was not delivered to my house. Normally I'd be up shit creek but eBay is working with the seller to get him to file a claim with USPS so that we both can be reimbursed. (Fingers crossed on this one!)

    https://pages.ebay.com/ebay-money-back-guarantee/

    Steve A.

    P.S. I was reading about the site in Post #1 and they do not take PayPal, only credit cards which they say charge them a 10% processing fee. Bullshit... I really doubt that it is more than 3%.

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    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    Here's a Chibson that even says "Made in USA" and has serial numbers!

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323297441396
    That could be a stock photo and what they ship lacks a logo or serial number. I'd be reluctant to order a guitar with a set neck because if that wasn't done right you would have a boat anchor, or should I say paddle? With a bolt-on neck there are a lot of ways to make it right...

    Steve A.

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    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    Scamadvisor.com gives the site a Trust Score of 4%. What could go wrong?
    https://www.scamadviser.com/is-tvbdp...fake-site.html

    -rb
    Here is a screenshot...





    Steve A.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Old Timer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    Here's another
    http://www.rmfkm.com/

    nosaj

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    So, is anyone not yet convinced that this "vendor" is a scam artist?

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  27. #27
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    So, is anyone not yet convinced that this "vendor" is a scam artist?
    Is there one like it, that is not a Scam?
    Someone that orders the guitars, and sells them from the USA.
    I guess if they did that, it would no longer be out of country?
    T

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    That could be a stock photo and what they ship lacks a logo or serial number. I'd be reluctant to order a guitar with a set neck because if that wasn't done right you would have a boat anchor, or should I say paddle? With a bolt-on neck there are a lot of ways to make it right...

    Steve A.
    I'm not sure what you would get. I do know I've gotten a couple of usable necks.. but I did the neck set. You can tell its Chinese made by looking at the neck joint on the back side. Not sure if I would order one assembled either. But... what the unscrupulous boutique builders in my neighborhood seem to be doing are buying a bunch similar to this for cheaper, picking the best ones to build out, and selling the rejects cheap on Craigs List.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    I'm not sure what you would get...unscrupulous boutique builders....
    OK, so you got some usable necks. And it definitely is possible to buy usable Asian guitars for cheap. For example, some folks swear by Rondo- which, according to their website, imports guitars from China, Taiwan, and Korea. So perhaps unscrupulous "builders" are buying Chinese guitars and passing them off as their own.

    But I very, very much doubt that they are buying guitars from this website.


    How can I say that?

    Go to the bottom of the main page and click a few of the links listed under "Corporate Information" and "Customer Service". If you can read that crap without your bullshit alarm going off, your bullshit alarm is broken. Would you do business with someone who expects you to believe that nonsense?

    Or peruse their product selection. They claim to carry guitars by every major manufacturer. And not just a few standard models- but all kinds of hotrod configurations and limited editions. The product descriptions are copied (stolen) directly from the actual manufacturers. They clearly cannot be selling the described products for the listed prices. One example already mentioned: How can they sell a pine Telecaster, with a $175 Lollar "Charlie Christian" neck pickup, for $180?

    Also, they claim to be "importers" of guitars that are made only in North America. Martin makes its guitars in just two locations — company headquarters at 510 Sycamore St. in Upper Nazareth, PA, USA, and in Navojoa, Mexico. Martin has been battling Chinese counterfeiters for years. http://www.mcall.com/business/manufa...103-story.html

    As you indicated in the thread title, no sensible person would expect these guitars to be "real". But given the obvious sleaziness of the operation, I suspect the guitars are entirely imaginary. As in, you'd be lucky if they sent you an empty box.

    -rb

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    Last edited by rjb; 06-25-2018 at 05:02 PM. Reason: wacky -> hotrod
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  30. #30
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    OK, so you got some usable necks. And it definitely is possible to buy usable Asian guitars for cheap. For example, some folks swear by Rondo- which, according to their website, imports guitars from China, Taiwan, and Korea. So perhaps unscrupulous "builders" are buying Chinese guitars and passing them off as their own.

    But I very, very much doubt that they are buying guitars from this website.


    How can I say that?

    Go to the bottom of the main page and click a few of the links listed under "Corporate Information" and "Customer Service". If you can read that crap without your bullshit alarm going off, your bullshit alarm is broken. Would you do business with someone who expects you to believe that nonsense?

    Or peruse their product selection. They claim to carry guitars by every major manufacturer. And not just a few standard models- but all kinds of wacky configurations and limited editions. The product descriptions are copied (stolen) directly from the actual manufacturers. They clearly cannot be selling the described products for the listed prices. One example already mentioned: How can they sell a pine Telecaster, with a $175 Lollar "Charlie Christian" neck pickup, for $180?

    Also, they claim to be "importers" of guitars that are made only in North America. Martin makes its guitars in just two locations — company headquarters at 510 Sycamore St. in Upper Nazareth, PA, USA, and in Navojoa, Mexico. Martin has been battling Chinese counterfeiters for years. http://www.mcall.com/business/manufa...103-story.html

    As you indicated in the thread title, no sensible person would expect these guitars to be "real". But given the obvious sleaziness of the operation, I suspect the guitars are entirely imaginary. As in, you'd be lucky if they send you an empty box.

    -rb
    No doubt... I was already referencing a different offering on eBay. There’s tons of stuff out there. Some more “real” than others...

    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    Here's a Chibson that even says "Made in USA" and has serial numbers!

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323297441396

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    Last edited by Boss; 06-26-2018 at 02:02 AM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    No doubt... I was already referencing a different offering on eBay.
    But others were still discussing the original site. I got confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    There’s tons of stuff out there. Some more “real” than others...
    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    Here's a Chibson that even says "Made in USA" and has serial numbers!
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323297441396
    Personally, I'd rather have a guitar with no ID than one with a bogus headstock. But that's just me; I used to buy polo shirts at a Lacoste outlet & remove the alligators with a seam ripper.

    Not to be an Eeyore, but besides the questionable legality of a Chinese neck marked "Made in USA", I might be concerned with the recent CITES crackdown on rosewood. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/guit...-rosewood.html

    -rb

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    Last edited by Boss; 06-26-2018 at 02:01 AM. Reason: Separate paragraph

  32. #32
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    OK, so you got some usable necks. And it definitely is possible to buy usable Asian guitars for cheap. For example, some folks swear by Rondo- which, according to their website, imports guitars from China, Taiwan, and Korea.
    Rondo is a very reputable company that came up with their business plan many years ago (1985 per their website)... contract with overseas factories to produce guitars that they sell in the U.S. and Canada. I don't know if they have any input on the designs or just order them "cafeteria style" but they get decent user reviews (especially for Agiles which I did not know was one of their lines.)

    I bought 2 of their SX lap steels around 2010 and one of them had a bad bridge. I called them up and talked to a guy with a NJ accent who mailed me a replacement bridge.

    I figured that their business plan was built around stocking a warehouse rather than actually producing the guitars themselves.

    Steve A.

    P.S. Some of the boutique lap steel makers have contracts with Chinese factories to produce a less expensive line than their hand-built models. They check out the factories to make sure that their product is acceptable. Once the CNC program is finalized the resulting product should be the same assuming that decent quality wood is used. (One of the builders has China make the body which they then finish by hand in the U.S.)

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  33. #33
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    More on the eBay claim I mentioned in Post #21... I had called eBay [1 (866) 540-3229] last Friday to make sure I didn't screw things up and the agent took all of the information to start the claim. As promised she just now called me back to say that they ruled in my favor and that I would be getting a refund. Hooray!

    I am a very honest person for very selfish reasons... if I try to keep or claim something that actually isn't mine it will come around and bite me in the butt! Instant karma or an overactive unconscious guilt complex... it doesn't really matter. Butt bites hurt!

    In 2009 I ordered a 60's Squire Classic Vibe tele from Sam Ash which they double-shipped... same invoice number, etc. They really screwed up and I'm sure that I could have kept the second one but of course I called them up to report the extra guitar I received. (They rewarded me by refunding the Fender strap locks I ordered with the guitar... made by Schaller but with bigger holes for longer screws and only $13 at that time.)
    *
    Steve A.

    >>> We have decided to issue you a courtesy refund for this case on Jun 28, 2018 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please*log in to PayPal*to get your refund.<<<

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by Steve A.; 06-30-2018 at 06:15 PM.

  34. #34
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA and Kona, HI
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    I actually think this is real:

    https://m.banggood.com/38-Inch-22-Fr...m3&utm_ho=2565

    Can you imagine some fool with some Gibson Reproduction water slides, a $12 number punch set from Harbor Freight, and a can of clear lacquer?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  35. #35
    Old Timer nosaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Pace, FL
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    Received: 100/20
    Given: 20/5
    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    I actually think this is real:

    https://m.banggood.com/38-Inch-22-Fr...m3&utm_ho=2565

    Can you imagine some fool with some Gibson Reproduction water slides, a $12 number punch set from Harbor Freight, and a can of clear lacquer?
    Now I have ordered from them before takes like a month to get anything though.

    nosaj

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Binkie McFartnuggets‏:If we really wanted to know the meaning of life we would have fed Stephen Hawking shrooms a long time ago.

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