early Gibson firebird pickup (1963-1964) info wanted...

[trioderob]

what can you guys tell me about the first version of the
gibson firebird pickup.


any and all information wanted


1) wire type / bobbin construction / materials

2) ohm readings

3) special constructon details

etc,,,,,,

[J S Moore]

I think it was the same bobbin material as the mini ( which was nylon) but I'm not sure. Instead of screws and a bar polepiece magnets were used in the coils. One south up and one north up, of course. There was a ferrous shim under the coils as part of the design. It wasn't the full width of the baseplate, just wide enough to go from magnet to magnet.

[Sam Lee Guy]

Have seen several versions of these, some with one magnet and some with two (Alnico 5). All parts just like Epiphone mini pickup but no screws. For repair, Sam use 44 gauge wire, about 4,500 turns each bobbin.

[J S Moore]

The ones with the screws and a magnet instead of a stud bar are the Johnny Smith version. They've got a ferrous plate underneath to transfer the magnetic field to the screws.

[trioderob]

info

any more info on these pickups ?

has anyone else started winding themm now ?

[billyz]

I took one apart one time, pretty sure the coils were sideways with a bar magnet sandwiched between. Same size coils as a minihumbucker, but sideways. But it's been many years ago, I do remember being surprised because i figured it just be a standard minihumbucker without adjusting screws.

The only thing holding all together is the soldered on cover and tape around the coils.

[David Schwab]

I took one apart one time, pretty sure the coils were sideways with a bar magnet sandwiched between. Same size coils as a minihumbucker, but sideways. But it's been many years ago, I do remember being surprised because i figured it just be a standard minihumbucker without adjusting screws.

The only thing holding all together is the soldered on cover and tape around the coils.

That's the Bill lawrence version of the Firebird pickup.

He got a patent on that, #3902394. It's an interesting design.

[billyz]

might have been a Bill Lawrence design, But it came out of my original Firebird V and was the original pickup. I was prone to taking the covers off in those days and thought I could do it to my Firebird, NOT. I also had a 1964 Epiphone Riviera which I did take the Covers off. But it did not look as cool as a full size humbucker, the coils were kind of clear and the slug side had a bar in it instead of pole slugs. Also, tape around the middle of the bar slug side.
The Firebird was different than the minihumbucker for sure.

[spud1950]

Here's a description of the earliest pickup used in the Firebird.The Lawrence designed Firebird sidewinder appeared in the 1970's. He joined with Gibson in 1971.

"The Firebird mini-humbucker appears outwardly like the mini-humbucker used on other Gibson guitars such as the Les Paul Deluxe, except for its solid cover. Underneath, however, critical differences are revealed. Whereas the standard, Epiphone-derived mini-humbucker is designed like a PAF-type humbucker but narrower, with a bar magnet placed beneath the two coils and in contact with the individual steel pole pieces running through them, the Firebird pickup is constructed with two alnico bar magnets, positioned one each within the two coils, in a dual-blade-styled design."

[David Schwab]

might have been a Bill Lawrence design, But it came out of my original Firebird V and was the original pickup. I was prone to taking the covers off in those days and thought I could do it to my Firebird, NOT. I also had a 1964 Epiphone Riviera which I did take the Covers off. But it did not look as cool as a full size humbucker, the coils were kind of clear and the slug side had a bar in it instead of pole slugs. Also, tape around the middle of the bar slug side.
The Firebird was different than the minihumbucker for sure.

The pickup with the coils on their side is the Lawrence design. As spud1950 mentioned, the earlier Firebird pickups were mini humbuckers with alnico magnets as blades.

The sidewinder is interesting because the coils are sitting in the magnetically neutral area between the poles. Bill likes his sidewinder designs! The Gibson Ripper pickups are sidewinders as are Bill's L-250 pickups.