Possible tone issues due to huge gauge wire?

[daz]

Is it possible that using say 16 gauge wire throughout an amp could cause any tonal abnormalities or affect the final tone in any negitive way? I have my reasons for asking, but i don't want to influence your answers so i will explain later after i have some replies.

[Enzo]

In a word, no.

Now if the excess size wire made it harder to dress down the runs, to locate the wires where they best should be, then perhaps, but wire size really should have no effect.

If you built something with that large wire and it now has problems, I sincerely doubt the wire size is the issue

Much more is what you did at the ends of those wires.

[PRNDL]

There are minor differences in tone between single-stranded and multi-strand wire and guage. The idea is high frequencies are carried on the outer edge of the wire.

The counter argument is that this applies to microwave frequencies, not really to audio, although it may fit in the tonal category where only certain people that can hear the difference.

The simple truth may be that if you're building a clone to get a certain tone, it's easier to copy everything exactly. That way you reduce the number of variables.

In my experience certain wires are more important than others. They are more prone to feedback and oscillation due to lead dress and wire type.
For instance, some wires (solid core) stay in place and don't move.

What are those certain wires?

It depends on the specific amp, but usually they carry lower power signals, such as the one from the jack to the first preamp tube, or the one going from the tone/volume to the preamp tube.

Usually these wires are routed underneath the board or on the side of the chassis to avoid stray RF.
Sometimes wire is coiled around them as a shield. Some use coax for them.

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Originally Posted by PRNDL

There are minor differences in tone between single-stranded and multi-strand wire and guage. The idea is high frequencies are carried on the outer edge of the wire.

The counter argument is that this applies to microwave frequencies, not really to audio, although it may fit in the tonal category where only certain people that can hear the difference.

The effect of signals at high frequencies traveling on the surface of a single conductor is called "Pelle" effect, after the name of the Danish scientist who studied this effect. when dealing with radio frequencies the turnaround is to use multi-stranded wire, called "Litz wire" ( After the name of a German scientist ). As correctly noted by PRNDL this is not a concern when dealing with audio frequencies, although it may fit in the tonal cathegory where only certain people BELIEVES or CLAIMS to be able to hear a difference ( read : Audiophiles ).

A funny footnote generated by a coincidence : "pelle" means "skin" in Italian, so many Italian techs erroneously think the "Pelle" effect to bear a relation only with the current traveling on the conductor's outer surface ( skin ), while, as I said, it refers to the last name of the scientist who studied this phenomenon.

Anyway,
I believe that when it comes to tube amps it's much more important to use shielded cable at the right places rather than worrying about the gauge itself ( provided the gauge is enough to cope with the current demand ).

Maybe using a thicker gauge makes a difference, because the lowered specific resistivity enhances the upper frequency response on the high side a tiny, and I mean tiny, bit ( stray capacitance being the same ) but I sincerely doubt any human ear can hear a difference ( while a dog maybe could ).
Anyway, I think that it cannot affect tone in any "negative" way.

Best regards
Bob

[Steve Conner]

In the English-speaking world, we call it skin effect. I think someone might be pulling your leg about the "Pelle" thing.

I don't believe wire gauge matters, except if your heater wires are too thin and your tubes end up starved of heater voltage.

The routing of the wires is far more important, since tube circuits are very prone to instability from capacitive coupling. It only takes less than 1pF of stray capacitance between, say, the output tube plate and the input tube grid on a Boogie lead channel, to get oscillation. You really need some feel for electric fields and stray capacitance to get the layout right. If in doubt, shielded cable kills capacitive coupling stone dead.

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Originally Posted by Steve Conner

In the English-speaking world, we call it skin effect. I think someone might be pulling your leg about the "Pelle" thing.

Hi Steve,
Well, apart from strange coincidences in "Italian" I must admit I made a wrong statement in my post. Talking about "Litz" wire ( used in RF coils to minimize the skin effect ) I seemed to remember it came from the name of a German scientist - well, my memory and brain are starting to betray me, as the term "Litzendraht" is a German word used to describe this kind of wire. My apologies.
Best regards
Bob

[Enzo]

REminds me of Joe Xerox, the man who invented the Xerox Machine....

[Steve Conner]

Also, how us Brits call a vacuum cleaner a "Hoover", after its inventor Hubert Booth.

The Litz wire thing causes confusion, because in German "Litzendraht" just means any stranded wire, whereas in English, Litz wire means specifically stranded wire with the strands insulated from each other to reduce skin effect. (You make it by twisting hundreds of strands of fine magnet wire together into a kind of copper rope, and you'll see it in high-end switching power supplies: the cheap consumer grade usually use plain magnet wire to save money, and take the efficiency hit.)

So you get Germans telling you they wound a RF transformer with Litz wire when they really mean that they bodged it with regular stranded hook-up wire.