No more Groove Tubes

[Mark Hammer]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/va...,6814721.story

Anybody here make it to the closeout sale?
I will note that the area where GT is situated is currently battling some severe brush fires.

[tubeswell]

Sounds like it'd have been a great sale. DANG! (that I live over here and miss these opportunities).

[David Schwab]

Someone needs to slap Fender with an antimonopoly suit. Gibson's not far behind them either.

Both companies have shown that the bigger they get, the more mediocre the quality of their products become, while becoming more expensive. That's what happens when you have no competition.

[Diablo]

Did Groove Tubes really ever manufacture any tubes, or did they just rebadge tubes made in foreign lands? Did they ever own tube manufacturing facilities either in the US or abroad?

Perhaps I should start my own company selling rebadged Chinese tubes.
I think I'll call it ........"The Grooviest Tubes"

[cminor9]

Originally Posted by Diablo

Did Groove Tubes really ever manufacture any tubes, or did they just rebadge tubes made in foreign lands? Did they ever own tube manufacturing facilities either in the US or abroad?

The Grooviest Tubes"

As far as I know, they relabeled chinese and russian tubes. I did read something about them starting to manufacture tubes (http://www.legendarytones.com/groovetubes.html) but I don't know what ever came of it. I have no idea about how legit that site is, for all we know it could be Aspen Pittman astroturfing. Also, I don't know how new that article is. If you have a website that has articles on it, do the world a favor and put a *stinking date* on the article's byline. Pardon the rant.

I am kind of mixed about GT. On one hand they sold hype, with all the rating and matching or tubes. Many uninitiated bought into the whole Groove Tubes thing, not realizing they were usually cheap chinese or russian tubes (like I did, once upon a time.) On the other hand, one could make the argument that they helped keep tubes around, available, and reasonably cheap because of the hype they generated about their tubes.

[tubeswell]

Yeah I too didn't believe the hype for a minute. The first time I ever brought a GT $50 rebranded 12AX7 (because they didn't have anything else in stock that day) it went microphonic on me in 20 mins. However, my dissappointment wasn't related to the re-branded over-hyped 'products' of the former GT. The article mentioned boxes of GE and Sylvania tubes going for a song :-(

[Chuck H]

It's true that GT sold rebranded junk tubes. But they also sold rebranded good tubes. Thats why all those cool NOS tubes were at the warehouse. It was up to the distributors and purchasers to know the designations.
Because GT did indeed sell hype, alot of distributors only carried the lower end GT tubes and marked them to a moderate or high price. Most guys that need tubes for their amp wouldn't know the difference from one GT tube to another. As long as they were marked GT most customers thought they were getting the same tubes as anyone else buying GT tubes. Fortunately for the distributors most players can't HEAR the difference either. So they continued to get away with it.
This really isn't GTs fault. They did indeed hunt the globe for NOS tubes and share spec ideas with prefered tube MFGs. If you read any GT catalog you will see that they never hid the fact that they sell different quality levels. They also give the type designations and descriptions of all the different tubes they sell. Unfortunately most distributors conveniently keep such literature away from the customers. Fender and Mesa have used GT tubes for a long time and I think Korg USA (Marshall/ Vox distributors) got on board later. They use decent tubes. Mostly Russian. But 90% of the crap you find in the music stores with the GT brand is the cheap Chinese garbage that GT describes something like: 'They won't last as long or take higher voltages but they sound OK and we match them up for players on a budget'. These are not the same tubes that came stock in your Fender and Mesa amps. But the stores sell them to you as if they were. The stores in fact have marked these tubes up well beyond MSRP because they know you don't know the difference. Niether do the clerks at the counter selling them. Try asking a music store clerk about the REAL difference between the tubes they sell and others in the GT line. Deer in the headlights.
I too bought a set of crappy GT labeled tubes from a music store once. For WAAAY too much money. And I never bought tubes at a music store again. But it wasn't GTs fault. Many respected techs have been GT distributors. Even Ken Fischer of Trainwreck fame sent many repaired amps out with a fresh set of GT tubes. But HE knew what to order and install from the GT line.

Sorry for the long rant. But I've seen this misconception about GT sooo many times.

Chuck

[jrfrond]

MISINFORMATION!!!

Groove Tubes will continue under the Fender domain, and will be distributed by Fender through their other new acquisition, Kaman Music Corp., who will act as Fender's accessory and merchandise sales distribution point. I know this because we are set up for Fender accessories sales.

[TD_Madden]

Then why hold the sale? Seems like they would want to hold onto the inventory.

[Chuck H]

Originally Posted by jrfrond

MISINFORMATION!!!

What misinformation??? I didn't see anyone say there would be no more Groove Tubes. The article says that the company was sold to Fender and there was a closeout sale. Is this not true?

I think it's fair to expect changes too. Probably not for the better either. Just my cynical .02

Chuck

[Steve A.]

Originally Posted by Chuck H

What misinformation??? I didn't see anyone say there would be no more Groove Tubes. The article says that the company was sold to Fender and there was a closeout sale. Is this not true?

I think it's fair to expect changes too. Probably not for the better either. Just my cynical .02

Chuck

Ummm... the headline of the article *is* "Music gear maker Groove Tubes is closing after nearly 30 years". But you are right- when you read the article it suggests otherwise.

GT used to sell GE NOS 12AX7's from the mid-80's for about $18- I kept buying them until they eventually ran out because they were very nice tubes.

I've been very happy with their Mullard reissues that a factory in China was making for them (these are the GT 12AX7M and GT 5751M tubes). These are NOT the same as the Mullard reissues that New Sensor is making in Russia. I've been A/B-ing the 5751M's with a few GE NOS 5 Star 5751's I have from the '50's and they sound pretty damned close! Much better than the Sovtek 5751's and I even like them better than some Phillips JAN 5751's that I have...

But most of the GT tubes are just the same tubes you could get from JJ, Sovtek, et al with their logo stamped on them. As for pretesting their tubes I think that Ruby does as good of a job, and their prices are much more reasonable.

GT did offer a consistency to the buying process- you could find their tubes in Podunk, Kansas and know that they would sound as good as the tubes you bought from a dealer in Chicago or New York. And I think that for the average guitarist there was an attitude that tubes are like light bulbs- they either work or they don't. At least until Groove Tubes came along to raise their awareness a little bit.

Those of us who are tube connoiseurs always knew where we could get the "good stuff", and at a much better price than GT.

Steve Ahola

[jrfrond]

FWIW- Groove Tubes had it's day, and became synonymous with the business of tube-matching, when no one else was really doing it. Now, we can buy our tubes matched and grade them ourselves. For instance, if you purchase from New Sensor, and you are familiar with Gamma ratings, you can ask for specific Gamma ratings when you order matched power tube.

[Steve A.]

Originally Posted by jrfrond

FWIW- Groove Tubes had it's day, and became synonymous with the business of tube-matching, when no one else was really doing it. Now, we can buy our tubes matched and grade them ourselves. For instance, if you purchase from New Sensor, and you are familiar with Gamma ratings, you can ask for specific Gamma ratings when you order matched power tube.

Speaking of New Sensor, I noticed that the sites for many of their individual brands were blocked for visitors from the US...

If tubes were meals then you might say that Groove Tubes would be the Black Angus- a step up from McDonalds and Denny's but not in the same league as a 4 or 5 star restaurant.

Pro guitarists with more money than street smarts about tubes will buy a lot of GT tubes. And probably kids with rich parents who want to be like their guitar heros. Not to mention the baby boomers for whom price is no object- and neither are their skills!

I got the impression that the GT brand will still be around but that Fender is closing down their separate facilities in LA. And that Ashman Pittman has moved on. So they probably will still import tubes and put their own logo on them, only this will be done at Fender facilities, and obviously without all of the NOS tubes that were sold off...

Steve

[Diablo]

I did some surfing on the internet and discovered that GT had some tube manufacturing equipment from the GE plant in Owensboro KY. So, it appears they did at least try to manufacture tubes in the CA plant. I don't know how successful they were.

[jrfrond]

Originally Posted by Diablo

I did some surfing on the internet and discovered that GT had some tube manufacturing equipment from the GE plant in Owensboro KY. So, it appears they did at least try to manufacture tubes in the CA plant. I don't know how successful they were.

The GT 6L6GE tubes were some of the most unreliable I've ever used. The acquisition of GE's old machinery was only one part of the formula. Tube making is part science, part black art, part artisan. You need to have all of those factors in place and aligned to make it happen.

[Enzo]

Kinda like, here's a Ferrari, kid, now you are a race driver.

[Diablo]

Originally Posted by jrfrond

The GT 6L6GE tubes were some of the most unreliable I've ever used. The acquisition of GE's old machinery was only one part of the formula. Tube making is part science, part black art, part artisan. You need to have all of those factors in place and aligned to make it happen.

Yeah, but I bet they were nicely matched, with fancy labels and pretty boxes....

All of this lost technical skill and manufacturing capability for tubes in the US makes me sad.

[jbltwin1]

Yeah, and they probably looked real nice when they cherried up and went up in smoke. They are probably the WORST tubes to depend on that I EVER installed. I think they relabled all the Radio Shack leftovers!

[bnwitt]

It is my understanding that though GT did in fact buy the old GE machines for making 6L6 power tubes, that they never went into production in the U.S. due to restrictive California EPA laws associated with the nasty stuff generated by the tube making process. The story I heard was that the 6L6 tubes were subsequently manufactured in China.

[drewl]

To their credit they were providing tube services and information when there wasn't alot of it out there.
With the internet and message boards people like me can access information and help from people with many years experience with tube equipment.
They sure didn't teach it in school! Just some theory of how they worked and that was it.
The GT tube amp book was a handy guide with some helpful information when there was little to be found.
Of course now you can find out any minute detail at the click of a finger.

[pila]

I had a couple of catastrophic failures of Groove tubes, 6V6s, which came apart internally with big-time shorts. I do have some 6L6s which are still working though. I haven't bought any more from them for a long while. Fender is not the outfit it used to be, so Groove tubes will fit right in.