It never ceases to amaze me....

[cjlectronics]

how a few people don't understand that the information provided on this forum and other forums comes at at cost to the moderators and those that contribute to their lack of knowledge. That cost is time and the knowledge they have gained throughout the years.

I want to be clear, this is only a small few but there will always be somebody expecting others to give them something they want for free and from their posts don't realize it takes time to type and explain every detail they're expecting to receive.

Go get a book and sit down and READ! That's where the moderators and contributors got their start!

Don't get me wrong, I get lots of satisfaction out of contributing to posts where I can help others with knowledge I have gained, but please ask your questions after you have exhausted all of your resources.

OK, I feel better now... Who needs help?

[Mark Hammer]

This topic always comes up whenever a schematic for a desirable pedal, whether vintage or recent, becomes publicly posted and people go "That? I could make that for $25 in parts, and they're asking $250 for it!!".

I hasten to remind people that the production cost of the pedal not only includes the parts and labour, and all those various overhead costs like rent, tools, website maintenance, shipping, and attending trade shows, but all the money and time devoted to acquiring the requisite knowledge.

Personally, I can produce a pedal fairly cheaply....NOW. But if you only knew how much time and money was spent on the books, the endless photocopying (yes, life DID exist before the net, but it was 10 cents a page!), the magazines, the trial and error builds, and all the rest of it.

As I have learned time and again as both a teacher and an employee, when you make things like easy, people THINK it's easy.

[Steve Conner]

This never ceases to amaze, rather bug me. It seems to be the same in every forum I've ever used, and it's only got worse as the barriers to getting on the Internet have lowered.

It used to be that only academics had Internet access, and because of this unspoken bias, every forum post (or mailing list post, we didn't have forums back then) read like a little research paper. It was good, and it felt like you were actually doing something worthwhile and getting something back out of it.

Now everyone has a computer and DSL, the average poster is a teen with green hair and more body piercings than IQ points, and the average post more or less says

"i got drunk an smashed f**k out of ma 5150 and it stopped workin plz help lol"

If this sounds horribly snobbish and elitist, well, it is, and I'm not ashamed of it. On the other forum I moderate, we actually made a rule against asking for schematics for anything.

[Enzo]

Sure. I post to someone that I have their old AMpeg schematic or whatever, then I can expect requests for it for the rest of all time as future readers discover it. SO for the most part now I use AMpix or attachement here. But sometimes I send a guy a drawing, then I get a steady stream from him asking for this that and everything, as many as six models in one email. Most people don;t do that of course, most are polite and thankful, but there are the few.

I enjoy helping people learn troubleshooting, and I try to write so that others just watching can learn as well as the person whose thread it is. But I had to turn off my PMs, because so many guys would write expecting private lessons. The email bin is full every day in similar manner. I tell them to open a thread in the forum. Apparently every day in the forum is not fast enough and they expect every day in email will somehow be faster - it won't.

At first I used to wonder why certain helpful people here didn;t include contact me info or email address on their web sites. I don't any more. I like hearing from people, but this is not a free service like google.

That said, I don't discourage professional courtesy between us techies.

[Mark Hammer]

I might also point out that the increased connectivity and web-access in the world has also brought in people that one would not have previously thought might participate. One poster who has shown up in several forums and driven people nuts is likely an individual with Asperger's Syndrome (http://www.aspergers.ca/). I say this based on extensive consideration of both the style and content of his postings and off-line messages to me. A harmless and inquisitive (but ultimately exasperating) guy, his relentless questions, and tendency to completely ignore or overlook the obvious - whether it was an answer to his question in the very post he was responding to, or an overt insult that seemed to not deter him or affect him in the slightest - led many to suspect he was some kind of conversational bot, directed by some malevolent soul.

What they failed to realize is that with a web open to the wide world (just like it says), the statistical odds were that eventually people with intellectual handicaps were going to start getting computers and showing up in forums. I think that's a good thing, but at the same time it can be an unkind and unpleasant thing if people don't expect it and react antagonisticly to such posts as if they were being deliberately provocative or intended to be annoying. I found the explicit slagging of the individual described here rather unpleasant. I imagine that if posters had known more about the person, they would have been a little less unkind and inconsiderate.

And just so we're clear, I am not implying in the least that this is what CJ is reacting to. My point is that the net and forums will expose one to people who DO expect too much for nothing, but it can also expose you sometimes to those who have literally no conception of what ought to be expected. I suppose one needs to keep an open mind, and a keen eye, just to be sure one is classifying people appropriately, and responding appropriately.

[Old Tele man]

...the GOOD, the BAD and the UGLY.

[TD_Madden]

I'll just list this forum as one of the things I'm thankful for.

[cjlectronics]

Originally Posted by Mark Hammer

I might also point out that the increased connectivity and web-access in the world has also brought in people that one would not have previously thought might participate. One poster who has shown up in several forums and driven people nuts is likely an individual with Asperger's Syndrome (http://www.aspergers.ca/). I say this based on extensive consideration of both the style and content of his postings and off-line messages to me. A harmless and inquisitive (but ultimately exasperating) guy, his relentless questions, and tendency to completely ignore or overlook the obvious - whether it was an answer to his question in the very post he was responding to, or an overt insult that seemed to not deter him or affect him in the slightest - led many to suspect he was some kind of conversational bot, directed by some malevolent soul.

What they failed to realize is that with a web open to the wide world (just like it says), the statistical odds were that eventually people with intellectual handicaps were going to start getting computers and showing up in forums. I think that's a good thing, but at the same time it can be an unkind and unpleasant thing if people don't expect it and react antagonisticly to such posts as if they were being deliberately provocative or intended to be annoying. I found the explicit slagging of the individual described here rather unpleasant. I imagine that if posters had known more about the person, they would have been a little less unkind and inconsiderate.

And just so we're clear, I am not implying in the least that this is what CJ is reacting to. My point is that the net and forums will expose one to people who DO expect too much for nothing, but it can also expose you sometimes to those who have literally no conception of what ought to be expected. I suppose one needs to keep an open mind, and a keen eye, just to be sure one is classifying people appropriately, and responding appropriately.

Mark, your psych background and extensive knowledge in this field definitely shines in the above post and I had to reread it multiple times to interpret your explanation. Hats off to you, Dr. Hammer

What I got out of that was that I do understand that my interpretation of one's writing skills can be easily misunderstood. However, most people write like they speak... (i.e. read a Japanese service manual) so I can only assume that the person doesn't realize what my grip is all about. Usually I choose not to respond to a request if it looks like it will require a small book to explain every little detail or if they are demanding information.

CJ

[Jag]

Mark, I understand, I have a young nephew with Aspergers. He's high functioning but, even being aware of his condition, it can be quite diffcult to remain understanding when he has a meltdown. He's only 9 and things can get quite tough for him. I always try to think of him before I take a knee-jerk reaction to an incoherent or demanding post.

With respect to the original post here, this is exactly the reason I don't often let on that I'm an IT specialist. There are WAY more people with computers than tube amps and many of them have a far larger illusion of entitlement.

I've actually had clients refuse to pay a bill because they really didn't think their Internet browsing habits could have possibly had andything to do with the cause of the malware infestation that nailed their ENTIRE network.

In that industry, I've learned to tell very early on when to specify EXACTLY how far I'm willing to go to be helpful for free. Beyond that, there needs to be discussion.

I appreciate, greatly, the help I get on this site and never feel I'm entitled to answers.

Thanks to you all!

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Hmmm......
It could indeed be simple to "bias" the level of the forum's members by adding a kind of "written exam" to gain membership, but the worthwhile points raised are ( righteously ) questioning other aspects of the matter.....

While I know it's a lot more than that, I consider Internet a tool to share ( and possibly gain ) knowledge. Many times I've received help ( for which I AM thankful, more on this later ) and a few times I've been able to help others; sometimes I've made mistakes....they call this "growing up" - and I mean it, even if I'm in my mid-forties ( someone said growing old is mandatory, growing up isn't ).

I can understand and sympathize with the frustration and disappointment some of you feel when reading some lo-level posts, or when facing some ungrateful reply to a help offer. As a matter of fact, nerds and trolls DO live with us on this planet, and sometimes they get out of their holes, but I still consider them a minority, and their ways don't come to the point of endangering the joy of learning something I didn't know, remembering something I have forgotten or the nice sensation I get when I manage to help someone.

What I would like to say is, when we share our time and knowledge we must think we're sort of throwing stones in a pond, the stone sinks, but the waves propagate on the pond's surface, and they can indeed reach faraway shores, so there's a tiny chance we have contributed to make the world a better place. We've done our best, regardless if the pond is going to understand the importance of what we did or said, and regardless if it's going to thank us or not ( never heard a pond talking so far, but who knows.....these are crazy times )

I know how it feels when dealing with ungratefulness, and I deal with trolls ( supposed to know better than me ) at work every day. It can make things harder but it does not takes me away from the responsibility to do my best.

This said, I wish to formally and officially express my heart-felt thankfulness to the forum and all the good people who populate it. I feel myself proud to belong to this community, and I thank you all for bearing with me when I go wrong.

Best regards

Bob