Alnico 8?

Stan H · 11-19-2006, 12:16 AM

Anyone had any experience with Alnico 8? I'm just wondering how it compares to Alnico 5 or Ceramic.

~Stan

Spence · 11-19-2006, 03:51 PM

I think Wolfe used that fairly exclusively for a while.

NightWinder · 11-19-2006, 06:45 PM

Alnico 8 is like the push of ceramic, but has the a5 flavor still retained. Try 'em ouy. Alnico 8 has really nice qualitys,,, but like everything experimentation is the key.

Pep · 12-15-2006, 07:32 PM

From what I know, Alnico 8 is very similiar to A5. It goes through a process where they align the metal grain in one way or another. Overall strengh is slightly less than A5, but it is supposed to be a lot less resistant to demag. Never used it however so I can't really speak of the tone it produces.

Zhangliqun · 01-09-2007, 08:43 PM

I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses.

To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in).

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness.

I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point.

Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story...

soundmasterg · 01-09-2007, 09:28 PM

And whats the other story of Alnico 6?

Dave's been too busy with other orders to really experiment with the A6 I got from you. I got a set of custom shop Seymour Duncan lipstick pickups with A6 magnets in them, and they sound way better than the stock ones, but thats a completely different pickup. I tried one in my Pearly Gates bridge pickup that I put on my Epiphone Dot briefly, but ended up settling on A3. To my ears it had some of the qualities of A5 but its hard to say.

Care to share more about A6?

Zhangliqun · 01-09-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmasterg

And whats the other story of Alnico 6?

Dave's been too busy with other orders to really experiment with the A6 I got from you. I got a set of custom shop Seymour Duncan lipstick pickups with A6 magnets in them, and they sound way better than the stock ones, but thats a completely different pickup. I tried one in my Pearly Gates bridge pickup that I put on my Epiphone Dot briefly, but ended up settling on A3. To my ears it had some of the qualities of A5 but its hard to say.

Care to share more about A6?

Those lipstick tubers are about 4k so A6 makes sense for them. Outputwise, A6 is about halfway between A5 and A8, maybe leaning a little more toward A8. Bass is pretty big though not quite as big as A8, and pretty tight.

Its strongest point is big honkin' mids that would be great for getting Pagey's Zep I tone out of a bridge humbucker. Its weakness is a lack of sizzle and presence on top (which probably explains why you yanked yours and went with an A3 in your PG), which might make it a little too "smooth" for the average humbucker to my ear. Sort of like A4 on steroids.

It's probably best used in either a really low output pickup like the lipstick, or in a P90 or humbucker for a guitar that is really bright and sorely lacking in mids. I have some A6 rod mags and want to try them out in a +/-5.5k Strat bridge pu, but haven't had the time yet.

You could probably get away with it in a neck pu -- made one for a guy who really likes it -- but still watch out for the string pull.

NightWinder · 01-09-2007, 11:18 PM

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu.
Oh, man. I get some fabulous results with A8 in the neck. It is a hybrid of 42 and 43. You do have to back it of, but not as much as you would think. I'm now wondering if the Hybid with the different gauges makes it work. Usually right at 10.3k DCR.?

Zhangliqun · 01-09-2007, 11:54 PM

Sounds like a real flame thrower of a neck pu.

I know 10.3k isn't as hot as it sounds with one coil #43 wire, but it's still roughly equal to 9k all-42, which would be hot even with an A3.

You could back it away but my concern is that most customers either won't understand that or will think it just looks too weird to back it off if it has to go significantly below the pu ring surface.

NightWinder · 01-10-2007, 07:18 AM

A good starting point is at 3mm. Micro adjustments from there, and I do Mean Micro. Looks would depend on the design of the guitar....from the fretboard height to the face of the mounting ring. I know what you mean, if its sinking past that. Very true on the customer issue. Its funny....Presentation is 50% of the battle, 20% is apperance, and the actual tone is 20%. Packageing alone plays a bigger part than the actual tone......WTF Go figure/....

soundmasterg · 01-10-2007, 06:21 PM

The A6 that I tried was partially degaussed, and I thought it sounded similar to A5 but with more mids and the top was smoother. Fully charged I have no idea what it sounds like. I'm loving the A3 in the PG though. That pickup was bright with A2 but now it's perfect for a blues lead tone.

I plan to experiment with A6 a bit when I actually start winding. I've got some ideas for what to do with it. The Danos are right at 4k and they definitly need the A6 magnets to sound authentic as that was used originally.

Zhangliqun · 01-10-2007, 06:31 PM

At 4k, they'd need the A6 just to be heard at all.

NightWinder · 01-10-2007, 07:07 PM

How did you degauss?? Did you measure for repeatable results?

soundmasterg · 01-11-2007, 07:46 PM

Dave degaussed the A6 magnet for me. I don't remember how far he degaussed it, but it was down a bit from what an A6 is capable of. The A3 that I finally settled on was fully charged.

NightWinder · 01-11-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmasterg

Dave degaussed the A6 magnet for me. I don't remember how far he degaussed it, but it was down a bit from what an A6 is capable of. The A3 that I finally settled on was fully charged.

What are your sonic evaluations of the A3? Compared to the A5 or A2. The A3 is Tricky. But in the right application, can be delivered by God himself. Just looking for another view point.

Spence · 01-11-2007, 11:38 PM

I find A3 in the absence of AlNi is great for very early Fender tones. A3 makes a nice neck bucker and tele neck pickup. Also it's the ideal P90 magnet.
It does have a tendency to be overpowered by pickups with other grades of alnico so be careful what you match it with. tonally it's very similar to A5.

Zhangliqun · 01-12-2007, 12:18 AM

To me, A3 is like A2 with more sparkle (clean) and sizzle (overdriven) and a touch less low mids. A3 rod mags do make for wonderful vintage-flavored Tele and Strat pu's.

I have heard that A3 doesn't hold a charge as well as the others but I don't know if that's true.

soundmasterg · 01-12-2007, 07:37 PM

Well, with the Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates bridge pickup which has A2 in it stock, the pickup was aggressive and sparkly, with lots of harmonics, but was too bright and kind of thin. Putting the A3 in it definitly brought the power output down to where I had to back the neck pickup (SD Alnico 2 Pro)down a bit to balance the volume. It also changed the tonal spectrum a bit and made the whole thing more aggressive, with the highs still there but not so present. The lows are tight, the mids are rich....its very balanced now and sounds to my ears a lot like Dave's Broadcaster pickup in overall character. Listen to the sound samples on his site for that one. I'm hoping to get some sound samples of the PG with the A3 but haven't had a chance yet. To me its the perfect magnet for a vintage style PAF in the bridge position as long as the neck pickup isn't too powerful.

11-19-2006, 12:16 AM	#1
Stan H Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sunny South Florida, USA Posts: 343	Alnico 8? Anyone had any experience with Alnico 8? I'm just wondering how it compares to Alnico 5 or Ceramic. ~Stan __________________ -Stan Stan Hinesley Pickups My Space

11-19-2006, 03:51 PM	#2
Spence Old Timer Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Dog House Posts: 1,338	I think Wolfe used that fairly exclusively for a while. __________________ www.shedpickups.com

01-11-2007, 11:38 PM	#16
Spence Old Timer Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Dog House Posts: 1,338	I find A3 in the absence of AlNi is great for very early Fender tones. A3 makes a nice neck bucker and tele neck pickup. Also it's the ideal P90 magnet. It does have a tendency to be overpowered by pickups with other grades of alnico so be careful what you match it with. tonally it's very similar to A5. __________________ www.shedpickups.com

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11-19-2006, 06:45 PM	#3
NightWinder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 1,070	Alnico 8 is like the push of ceramic, but has the a5 flavor still retained. Try 'em ouy. Alnico 8 has really nice qualitys,,, but like everything experimentation is the key.

12-15-2006, 07:32 PM	#4
Pep Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bend, OR Posts: 66	From what I know, Alnico 8 is very similiar to A5. It goes through a process where they align the metal grain in one way or another. Overall strengh is slightly less than A5, but it is supposed to be a lot less resistant to demag. Never used it however so I can't really speak of the tone it produces.

01-09-2007, 08:43 PM	#5
Zhangliqun Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 593	I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses. To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in). Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness. I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point. Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story...

01-09-2007, 09:28 PM	#6
soundmasterg Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cornelius, Oregon Posts: 669	And whats the other story of Alnico 6? Dave's been too busy with other orders to really experiment with the A6 I got from you. I got a set of custom shop Seymour Duncan lipstick pickups with A6 magnets in them, and they sound way better than the stock ones, but thats a completely different pickup. I tried one in my Pearly Gates bridge pickup that I put on my Epiphone Dot briefly, but ended up settling on A3. To my ears it had some of the qualities of A5 but its hard to say. Care to share more about A6?

01-09-2007, 11:18 PM	#8
NightWinder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 1,070	Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. Oh, man. I get some fabulous results with A8 in the neck. It is a hybrid of 42 and 43. You do have to back it of, but not as much as you would think. I'm now wondering if the Hybid with the different gauges makes it work. Usually right at 10.3k DCR.?

01-09-2007, 11:54 PM	#9
Zhangliqun Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 593	Sounds like a real flame thrower of a neck pu. I know 10.3k isn't as hot as it sounds with one coil #43 wire, but it's still roughly equal to 9k all-42, which would be hot even with an A3. You could back it away but my concern is that most customers either won't understand that or will think it just looks too weird to back it off if it has to go significantly below the pu ring surface.

01-10-2007, 07:18 AM	#10
NightWinder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 1,070	A good starting point is at 3mm. Micro adjustments from there, and I do Mean Micro. Looks would depend on the design of the guitar....from the fretboard height to the face of the mounting ring. I know what you mean, if its sinking past that. Very true on the customer issue. Its funny....Presentation is 50% of the battle, 20% is apperance, and the actual tone is 20%. Packageing alone plays a bigger part than the actual tone......WTF Go figure/....

01-10-2007, 06:21 PM	#11
soundmasterg Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cornelius, Oregon Posts: 669	The A6 that I tried was partially degaussed, and I thought it sounded similar to A5 but with more mids and the top was smoother. Fully charged I have no idea what it sounds like. I'm loving the A3 in the PG though. That pickup was bright with A2 but now it's perfect for a blues lead tone. I plan to experiment with A6 a bit when I actually start winding. I've got some ideas for what to do with it. The Danos are right at 4k and they definitly need the A6 magnets to sound authentic as that was used originally.

01-10-2007, 06:31 PM	#12
Zhangliqun Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 593	At 4k, they'd need the A6 just to be heard at all.

01-10-2007, 07:07 PM	#13
NightWinder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 1,070	How did you degauss?? Did you measure for repeatable results?

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01-11-2007, 07:46 PM	#14
soundmasterg Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cornelius, Oregon Posts: 669	Dave degaussed the A6 magnet for me. I don't remember how far he degaussed it, but it was down a bit from what an A6 is capable of. The A3 that I finally settled on was fully charged.

01-12-2007, 12:18 AM	#17
Zhangliqun Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 593	To me, A3 is like A2 with more sparkle (clean) and sizzle (overdriven) and a touch less low mids. A3 rod mags do make for wonderful vintage-flavored Tele and Strat pu's. I have heard that A3 doesn't hold a charge as well as the others but I don't know if that's true.

01-12-2007, 07:37 PM	#18
soundmasterg Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cornelius, Oregon Posts: 669	Well, with the Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates bridge pickup which has A2 in it stock, the pickup was aggressive and sparkly, with lots of harmonics, but was too bright and kind of thin. Putting the A3 in it definitly brought the power output down to where I had to back the neck pickup (SD Alnico 2 Pro)down a bit to balance the volume. It also changed the tonal spectrum a bit and made the whole thing more aggressive, with the highs still there but not so present. The lows are tight, the mids are rich....its very balanced now and sounds to my ears a lot like Dave's Broadcaster pickup in overall character. Listen to the sound samples on his site for that one. I'm hoping to get some sound samples of the PG with the A3 but haven't had a chance yet. To me its the perfect magnet for a vintage style PAF in the bridge position as long as the neck pickup isn't too powerful.