How does one become an authorized amp repair center?

[Garydean]

What are the requirements?

Thanks,
Gary

[Enzo]

That is sorta like asking, "How does one become a member?" A member of what? Each company is different.

Service centers are authorized individually by each manufacturer, there is no overall "Authorized Repair Center." For example, my shop is an authorized repair center for Fender, Peavey, and MArshall, but not for Roland. I probably could easily become a Roland center too, but it doesn;t come up often enough here for me to bother.

But to generalize, you have to have an existing shop. Most companies will require you to operate from a store front, in other words not some kid in his basement. And they most will expect photos of the exterior, the bench, and the customer area. SOme are easier to get than others. SOme want you to have been in business at least a year. Many will want to see your equipment list - a roster of your test equipment, while others will ask specifically about the brand and model of your scope, meters, and other gear. You need to be able to receive UPS and FedEx shipments.

You can approach any company and ask for an application, and they may or may not offer one. SOme companies only want applications from dealers or shops invited by dealers. I do service for some dealers, and I have asked various companies for applications along with "This dealer requested I become a service center for your products." ANy time you can involve the name of a company's dealer, it helps. With the dealers knowledge of course.

SOme companies have franchises. If there is already authorized service in your town for a company, they may not want to add another.

[Garydean]

Thanks Enzo, I just threw out a general, non company specific question. You answered perfectly. Do they look to see if you are "certified" or hold a degree?

thanks

[Enzo]

CErtified as in CET? COuldn;t hurt to tell them, but no one asks for that. As far as I know there are no degrees in amp repair. Having an associates degree in electronics or electronic technology again wouldn;t hurt, it would be a plus, but wouldn;t be a requirement. I have a bachelor in Communication but no electronics credentials other than half a century of experience.

Over the years I have hired numerous technicians - and fired a few - and when I read the resume, I am much more interested in actual experience than degrees. A guy who has been doing work on his own in his basement is more valuable to me than someone fresh out of electronics school with no practical experience.


The application does usually ask about your schooling and any factory seminars you took, and like that. It almost always asks who else you do service for. SO any factory you can connect with adds to the likelihood of others accepting you too. SO don't look down your nose at some brand you don't like.

[blckmynnse8]

I'm really starting to see just how much of a task this would be to accomplish. I tend to take alot of things for granted at my bread and butter job, such as being provided with all of the proper test equipment I need without any cost to me such as nice meters, oscilloscopes, computers, desoldering stations... none of these are cheap. Also, if I happen to need something to make my job easier such as having a power or air drop installed or moved, all I need to do is call maintenance [then wait for them to "get around to it", but it's still easier than doing it myself]. If I need a schematic, all I have to do is call or email document control. When I need a specific part, it's either stocked in inventory at no personal cost to me [nor do I have to pay inventory tax on these parts] or I tell the purchasing department who specializes in sourcing materials so they can do the work. There's alot of work involved.

My story is that basically one day I decided to see if the local music store needed a technician to do electronics repair. The owner was very enthusiastic so I performed a few repairs in the shop when the guitar tech was gone and his bench space was available. I started feeling really excited and gung-ho about the idea of eventually building a repair department inside the guitar shop. But right now my "official bench" is two very large wood speaker cabinets placed next to each other, one power outlet, no air drop, and test equipment I paid for myself years ago. These conditions definitely must be upgraded before I can agree to get very serious. I'm hoping that I can at least get a real work bench in there... The reality of this monumental effort is really becoming quite apparent. A few of the examples of things to consider are listed in the first paragraph... that is alot of work for a single person who is already working 40 hours a week. Without a 40 hour week job it would still be quite an effort to build up a business out of nothing... the time needed for things such as business loans, acquiring materials, getting "certified" with specific brands, etc... Sure there is an available storefront shop at my disposal and the owner is thrilled about trying to avoid "bench rates"... but considering my current job I have a real understanding about the amount of overhead that is involved and those "bench rates" many times barely keep a department/shop above the water.

Right now I'm not discouraged, just more realistic. To do this involves all of the elements of building a business from the ground up. I've decided that what I'm going to do is just take the slow route... I'll learn things as I go along. I am not going to kill myself spending all of my spare time to become a wizard overnight... and instead of trying to tackle every single thing that comes in I'm just going to take it slow, and refurbish/repair the best that I can to restore gear to a sellable used condition. I'm going to try and get this one Peavey amp out of the way, and after that I plan on taking it more easy.

For the most part from now on... if something requires overly-extensive troubleshooting... I'm just going to tell him to send it to a certified tech instead of asking millions of questions in the maintenance forum. That's just not fair to all the folks who have worked years if not decades to get where they are at.

That's just my two cents about my first experiences with the idea of getting into this business. Can be rewarding in the end but it's tough stuff that requires alot of dedication and persistence.

[Garydean]

Thanks for all the input gents. I've been doing ok so far working out of my home and advertising by word of mouth and Craigslist. I'm feeling sometimes that I need to be more public and put myself out there a bit more to generate more income. I've stopped at a few music stores and offered in-house or my bench. All have asked if I am authorized by any manufactures. Of course not.....I'm in my home. My option now is to bite the bullet and open a store front. But in this economy, paying $700 a month in just rent plus all the added expenses may be the kiss of death. I had a music store last year in a different state and got out while I still had my hair left. BUT... I know that I could easily generate far more repairs if I had exposure.

I really don't understand the local music shops. None offer amp repair. They claim they send the amps out to a local electronics repair place, same people who fix TVs and such. Wouldn't you want to have an edge over the other retailer and have a complete service store?

Gary

[blckmynnse8]

I certainly agree with you on paying rent for a storefront. Maybe you could find a place where you could try my approach and get some floor space after making some sort of mutual business agreement. This guy was more than happy to give me the floor space, and if this situation continues to work out I just might see about getting an inexpensive but solid table to use for a real bench. We agreed that he would pay me by the job and so far things are working reasonably well... though after awhile we are going to have to do some more negotiating. Another perk is that he will let me borrow stuff from the store.

Since I already have a full time job I'm not looking to spread the word about myself too much. The owner of the shop already has tons of connections so he already has enough of a workload ready for me. The same may happen for you if you are able to fall in with the right music store... the owner will have plenty of connections to equipment in need of repair. I'm still not sure if it would be as lucrative as my bread and butter job... in a thread over in maintenance a guy who runs his own shop was mentioning a rather low net income doing his work.

Right now I'm planning on building knowledge and experience at a slow pace and looking at this as more of a hobby with financial perks. Later on down the road I may become interested in taking this to a higher level again.

[Enzo]

When I say you need to operate from a storefront, I am not saying it has to stand alone. When I started this business, I simply rented space inside a dealer's store. They charged me rent, but it wasn't like I had to sign a building lease, get utilities arranged, etc. Even today, I am renting space in another business' building, but I have my own entrance, the businesses are not accessible to customers from any common area. But for my monthly, heat and electric are included.

If you have a dealer to cooperate, you can have the dealers counter serve as yours, and your shop can be located elsewhere like in your home. I currently do service for several dealers, but I rarely set foot in any of them other than as a customer. The factory wants to see what the customer sees when they drop things off. They also want to see what your work area looks like. They don't have to be the same place. SOme places asked for photos of my parts storage and reference shelving.

If you are starting from scratch, well sure it would be expensive. I built my own bench. A base/legs, then a top made of three 2x12s lashed together with 2x4s underneath. A sheet of 3/8 or 1/2 ply on top for a smooth surface. Then cheap carpeting over that. Not expensive and a great investment. All the test gear? Well yeah if you have none, that's expensive. I didn't buy mine all at once. One assumes if you have enough experience to think about your own shop that you own equipment. If you always borrow yours, that is a relatively unusual circumstance.

You are not building a thriving repair business from scratch overnight. If you are working part time for a dealer, you are started. Keep an eye out for deals on better pieces of gear. WHat is your weak spot at the moment? Scope? Genny? Variac? Loads? You don;t have to have them all at once. When I went out on my own, I moved some things from my home shop into my store. I spent $$ for my bench here. ANd once in a while I'd buy a cheap bookcase, or maybe build a wheeled cart to set things on. Now and then something gets upgraded. Over time my equipment list firms up.

I have never taken out a business loan. I have never taken an empty building, erected ineterior walls, rewired the electrical service, put up lit signs, installed HVAC, or any of that.

If you are starting a shop, you won;t be having to run around finding certifications. You won;t find many signing up shops on their opening day. You gain some experience running a general shop, then one day for whatever reason it becomes appropriate to contact Fender. They send an app, you fill it out. This is not like applying for a mortgage or college.

Factory authorizations are not something you get to open your shop with. They are things you earn to help build your business. I love the factory autjhorizations. Not only do they give me direct access to the documentation and parts, but they are a constant source of new customers.


Ask those dealers who ship things of to the TV guys if there are certain things they don;t handle as well as others. or if there are repairs they don;t want to do. You might go after those repairs as a way in the door.

WHy doesn't the store offer repair? Sounds to me like they do. Customer brings in a dead amp and drops it off for repair. Sometime later he comes back and picks up the repaired amp. That sounds like repair to me. If he puts a repair shop in the store, then he has to give up that space. In many stores space is not something they have extra of. They also then have to maintain the service. This adds to the bookkeeping, parts ordering, shipping/receiving, payroll. And if it is working out for them, how much more revenue will they get if they hire a tech? Now I would prefer myself to have the repair guy right ther so I can communicate directly, sure, but the store is a business and has to consider the whole situation.

Low net income? yeah, I am not getting rich. You can't charge $20 an hour.

[Garydean]

OK gottcha. I have two of everything, I even have two sisters. Scope, variac, sig gen, loads, flukes...bla bla. I work about 15 hours a week and it's just flying. I know I'll get more work if I put myself out there. I've lost jobs because I don't have a commercial address. Some people don't want to come to my condo to drop stuff off. I pick up most of my work. Drive 10 minutes or so, fix what ever and bring it back in a few days.

Correct, all the music shops here have no room as evident by their overflowing stock rooms. I've also considered a less expensive space off the beaten path. I won't get the foot traffic, but at least it will be away from my condo.

I appreciate your history Enzo. Plus taking the time to help.

G

[Enzo]

It is a big leap to renting a plpace for your business. It just eats money. If none of your dealers have space to let, agreements with them to take in and return repairs to customers will help - help you and help them.

COnsider finding a place other than a dealer where you might operate as a concession. Is there a TV repair shop around that might have some space? renting a room in a business will be cheaper and easier in most cases than renting a store all your own.

On the other hand, you will be making noise doing your job, so that is a factor in joining in with another business.

You know any other guys, maybe a luthier, in your area who might want to go into it with you? Splitting a store could save money.

I know nothing of your condo, but careful, it might be against the rules in many condos to operate retail businesses from them. it also might be against local zoning as well. Otherwise, it could be possible to set up a separate entrance or even structure - finished garage for example - for a shop. Just doing work in your basement is not an issue. it is customers coming and going.

You don;t need to have prime commercial propeerty, you are not the sort of place shoppers spot driving by and just HAVE to drop in. You are the kind of place people call for directions to. On the other hand you don;t want to be hard to find... "Yeah, turn down the alley and after the seconds dumpster, turn into..." SO side roads work.

I used to rent a shop across the street from a major dealer. They could point out their front window and tell people, there is the repair guy. That building was sold and emptied. I had to move across town. Cut my local business in half. SO location does matter, but not like for many retail stores.

[agent86oz]

I have had my own business for 21 years and ended up employing 5 staff but was mostly doing consumer repairs like TV, VCR home HIFI. I worked 6 years before that as an apprentice and a couple of more years after that but was frustrated at being managed by sales people and not having basic equipment or even adequate lighting provided.

I started up from a 66 Square meter Workshop next to my house which was well fitted out even compared to even some of the Shop front workshops.

It is easy to get work if you do a good job and have people skills but not easy to make money and retain integrity.

When I started I just approached the retail stores and let them do the chasing up warranty from the manufacturers as they hated sending product away and delays.

In general Warranty work does not pay well but you get access to parts and manuals and once apon a time you got tech support if stuck but that has almost disappeared with so much gear being made in China and items having a short service life (disposable)

I just got started earning real money and run out of space with 5 staff so moved to a 200 Square meter shop and fitted it out very nicely but a couple of things happened.

1. Customers became very demanding
2. Everyone including my staff thought I had a lot of money but in reality to cover the cost of the new shop I was barely breaking even and had to re mortgage my house.
3. I picked a bad time when the cost of products started to free fall in price and the ability to achieve a repair price that made a profit was difficult.

After protracted illness I ended up selling and moving back to my home workshop and working part time with no staff. I tell you the stress levels went down and customers were reasonable in their expectations and I even make some money now but my wife makes far more as a Nurse.

A good technician does not generally make a good business person, I learnt the hard way ;-)

I only do Professional Audio now covering Amplifiers both Solid state and Tube, electronic Organs and Keyboards and most things sold in a music store except Guitars. I did this for financial reasons and based on what products I enjoyed repairing. I do think in the next 3 to 5 years if prices of products keep dropping and the difficulty of getting schematics and parts continues to increase that I will really need to look at doing something else. I am in a rural area and get work mostly from 100km radius but starting to get some work from a lot further as there has been a mass exodus in the last few years from the industry and there is effectively no component level training like there used to be.

I think Warranty work will start to become more important as manufacturers are expecting to keep fewer parts and change complete boards which is fine under warranty but after that then buying a complete board rather than component level repair makes the cost too high.

I do warranty on a casual basis and send out a standard invoice and no longer jump through hoops doing extra paperwork and dedicated forms.

Now there is a shortage of component level technicians in the electronic repair industry the strict rules and poor payment issues have vanished with manufacturers.

If you can’t turn a profit or are not self motivated better to work for someone else, it is a very challenging time now for those who are in the trade.

If I had better health I would be out doing other projects personally but my setup works for me with my health conditions and the Wife brings in the real money.

Feel free to ask any questions, I know this is an old thread but just thought I could add an additional perspective.

[Bill Moore]

This has really been an interesting thread, here in my town, there's only a couple of electronic techs that I know of. I think the fellow that owns the remaining music store takes amp repair to his other store,(120 mi from here).
I am in the auto repair business, and ASE certification has been the norm for quite a while now,(I first certified master in 1979), so I was surprised that there was not something similar in the electronic repair business.
There is an amp tech here,(electrical contractor by trade), that's been making a name for himself through the internet. He repairs and hot rods amps, and mods Mesa-Boogie, among other things. Told me he was taking care of his personal bills working on amps in the evening.

[Enzo]

There is the CET - Certified Electronics Technician - program. But frankly as someone who has hired and trained technicians over the years, having that ticket doesn't tell me much. It tells me he can get a passing grade on a written test.

I am not in the auto repair industry, but I can imagine maybe a parallel in that a guy with an ASE ticket in hand might show up at your door, but you still don;t know if he is the sort to shear off head bolts on a regular basis or forget to open the holes on a head gasket. Or if he will show up drunk. His ticket lets you know he has certain knowledge, and beyond that it is up to you.

If I saw a CET certificate at a repair shop, I still don;t know if the guy has any idea what a Fender Twin ought to sound like, or if he knows how to get a 5150 out of the head cab. And a guy may have all the knowledge, but lack the insight for where to apply it. Like a guy who studies a Gerald Weber book and knows backwards and forwards how to do the stuff in the book, but hasn;t a clue how to make the same circuit changes in something not covered.

[Bill Moore]

That's true Enzo, I have scaled back from a few years back, and now only have 1 guy and myself. I hire everybody for 2 weeks whether they are a certified master or not, and like you say, many don't cut it. It costs me a few thousand a year on repair info, and of course the electronic problems are the most elusive. Nothing is ever dead, everything is intermittent, so there's a lot of trouble shooting. Whenever battery engineering gets up to speed, I look forward to getting away from a computer controlled fire to make your car run.

[Enzo]

Oh yeah, there won;t be any computers involved in a battery car... You just keep telling yourself that.

And I don;t know if you are aware of the problem of laptop computer batteries catching fire. Look that up sometime. Imagine a catastrophic battery failure in an electric car battery pack with hundreds of amperes available. Hiroshima!!! Careful what you wish for.

Have a nice day.

[Bill Moore]

I'm not sure there's any more danger of a vehicle catching fire from a battery pack, than there already is with the flammable liquid on board. It does seem that we see very few vehicle fires with EFI, than when all were carburetors.
Yeah, there will be an on board control system, the current trend is to link all the systems, engine, brakes, trans., airbag, climate control, etc., with a common buss. and you guessed it, we spend time checking communication errors.
A few years ago there was even talk about raising the battery voltage to possibly 48 volts, and some of the equipment manufacturers were starting to build test equipment, but I have heard no talk in the trade mags lately.