Which Fender Twin reverb models are good?

[music-fan]

Hi
I would like to find out:
- Which Fender Twin reverb models are average, good, and best ? And why? (I mean which year model?)
- Which year model does have best speakers and what is their brand?
- Are CBS-age models bad or good?
- How about latest models 2000-2009 years?

Thank you.

[Enzo]

I hate this question, but welcome to the forum anyway.

What is "best?" What is "good?"

The simple fact is they all work, and which one I might prefer is totally irrelevant to which one you would prefer. The one that sounds best TO YOU, is the best one.


Who makes the "best" clam chowder? That is maybe a trick question since I hate clams. To me there is no such thing as good clam chowder, as long as there are clams in it. But someone else might prefer the chowder at Red Lobster, and someone else at Old COuntry Buffet. There is no right and wrong.

[Sweetfinger]

Hi
I would like to find out:
- Which Fender Twin reverb models are average, good, and best ? And why? (I mean which year model?)
- Which year model does have best speakers and what is their brand?
- Are CBS-age models bad or good?
- How about latest models 2000-2009 years?

Thank you.

About 95% of players would say the mid 60's blackface are the best. A good portion of all 'blackface' amps are CBS era, but the ones that would be most desirable fall under the "older the better" heading. Any Twin without a master volume should be good. Maybe avoid the mid to late 70's ones when they went to 100 and then 135 watts. You do NOT want a Super Twin.
The Early 80's Rivera era blackface amps are a different amp and you should make sure you really like the sound of any of that series before buying. The reissue models sound fine, but aren't as sturdily built as any of the older ones, and you can still find 70's twins for less than a reissue, so go for the real thing.
Over the years the Twin Reverb came with Jensen, Utah, CTS, Oxford, JBL, Eminence, and who knows what other speakers. I like the old Jensens, or reissue Jensen C-12N's. YMMV.

[KingCameron]

Okay...here's my shot at it..

1967 Blackface Twin Reverb-amp
-new Sprague PS caps, and M150 tone-circuit caps
-matched GE 6l6 "Blackplates" in the output
-matched-side Tung-Sol 12AX7s in the pre-amp
-JBL "Orange Back" speakers (E series)
--Use the aluminum capped cones

The reverb/tremolo was never as good in the big Twins, as it was in the Princeton, but for a large club player...this amp packs a lot of thump

-----and like Enzo said, its all about your taste

[GibsonLover]

Consider your venue and style of music. If you need to be clean, a Twin can do that. Personally, I may be alone here, but I like the low power tweed version if I had to choose a Twin because it will break up easier that a Blackface. I don't know what in God's name anyone needs a 100W amp for, though I do not deny that some folks do need it. Anyone I see in concert usually has a small combo with a mic in front of it. Obviously they sound and feel different, but that's why you gotta go to a music store and plug in.

[music-fan]

Hi guys and thanks all you for your responses.
(sorry, I did not have time to check earlier if there are any answers to my questions).

- About best for me: I am actually beginner with electric guitar and i like pure, clean, warm tone and all kind distorsions too, but again - very warm clear distortion (if it is possible to say so).
Also I would like to have good reverb and vibrato - that is why I choosed Fender Twin: a lot of people like this amp exactly for clean, pure, warm tone (at least i understood so). And I tried it personally at Guitar center and actually I agree with that and also I found there excellent reverb, but not sure about its vibrato. And again, because I am beginner I can not completely trust my feelings about that and also price is very high. So, i think may be old models are not bad, or are even better, or are even best, and to exchange price for age and cosmetic condition would work for me.

-Sweetfinger: "reissue models sound fine, but aren't as sturdily built as any of the older ones" - So, do you think that "sturdily built" somehow affects sound quality or it is just about reliability, prolongest amp life, etc.? Or, you mean they sound not so good and besides that - they are build not so good?


-Sweetfinger: "Twin without a master volume " - How that amp can be operated if there is no master volume knob? (Sorry, may be I don't understand that because, as I said, I am new in electric guitar.)


-Sweetfinger: "Early 80's Rivera era blackface amps" - Are these model are also Fender Twin Reverb models or completely different models? Or even not Fender?

-Sweetfinger: am I correct that despite your advise "avoid the mid to late 70's" you still advise "find 70's twins for less than a reissue" because even though they are not as good as 60's they still better than later models and later reissues up to recent years? Or because they are cheaper?

- I read somewhere that 70's model are the best because of their handwirings layout - is it true? And how wiring layout can affect sound quality (it is not clear from electrical engineering point of view, electrical parameters of amp, may be phase characteristic?)?


- KingCameron: "JBL "Orange Back" speakers (E series)" - Do you know anything about quality of speakers JBL K-120 (in Fender Twin Reverb 1969)?

Thank you.

[Sweetfinger]

-Sweetfinger: "reissue models sound fine, but aren't as sturdily built as any of the older ones" - So, do you think that "sturdily built" somehow affects sound quality or it is just about reliability, prolongest amp life, etc.? Or, you mean they sound not so good and besides that - they are build not so good?


-Sweetfinger: "Twin without a master volume " - How that amp can be operated if there is no master volume knob? (Sorry, may be I don't understand that because, as I said, I am new in electric guitar.)


-Sweetfinger: "Early 80's Rivera era blackface amps" - Are these model are also Fender Twin Reverb models or completely different models? Or even not Fender?

-Sweetfinger: am I correct that despite your advise "avoid the mid to late 70's" you still advise "find 70's twins for less than a reissue" because even though they are not as good as 60's they still better than later models and later reissues up to recent years? Or because they are cheaper?

- I read somewhere that 70's model are the best because of their handwirings layout - is it true? And how wiring layout can affect sound quality (it is not clear from electrical engineering point of view, electrical parameters of amp, may be phase characteristic?)?

I'll answer in order:
1. Reliability has nothing to do with sound. Some amps sound fabulous and break down regularly, and others are built like tanks and don't sound so good. The reissue Twins certainly sound fine, but an older one will last longer and take more wear.
2. A master volume is a second volume on an amp that allows the pre-amp stages to be overdriven while keeping the overall volume of an amp at a manageable level. Most amps made before the mid 70's do not have master volumes. Modern amps will label the first volume as "gain". To get a non-master volume amp to distort, the amp must be turned up fairly loud.
3. Fender hired Paul Rivera in the early 80's and redesigned their amp line. The model names are the same, or similar, but the sound, circuits, and features changed. Rivera left a bit later and started Rivera, which is still in business today.
4. Yes, for both your stated reasons, still better, and likely cheaper. You should factor in a service for an older Twin, in the range of $60 to $200.
5. The 60's are more meticulously wired, getting worse through the 70's. All tube fenders are handwired through the early 80's. Parasitic oscillation may occur in a poorly laid out amp like some of the 70's twins.

[music-fan]

Thank you Sweetfinger for useful detailed info.

[HTH]

a Deluxe Reverb (DR) will be clean up to pretty high volumes and has both reverb and tremolo; it will be cheaper to buy too. The DR is a 22w tube amp and is LOUD - a 100w tube amp like the Twin is just insane unless you want very loud and very clean tones (and play stadiums on a regular basis).

[mac1amps]

Okay, here's MY take on it....(uh, oh....the "too many cooks" factor is starting to apply here)....If you want ANY degree of "natural" sounding break-up/distortion, whatever you want to call it, a Twin is probably thee WORST model Fender to go with, especially since you're a beginner. Twins are great amps IF you don't want to ["naturally"] distort at all, OR you're the kind of player that will be using a pedal of some sort to obtain your break-up. A player who will be playing larger venues where the higher volume levels will be prevalent, CAN get a moderate break-up sound with a BF (another major factor being whether you are using a guitar with hotter humbuckers, or weaker single coils), or of course a tweed era Twin (THAT would be kind of silly though, a beginner buying a tweed, seeing as though a tweed Twin probably goes for about $3K or more these days), but if you're a beginner, in all due respect, I don't think you'll be gigging in stadiums anytime soon. If you're counting on a master volume control to get lower volume break-up, say good-by to the "natural" break-up sound (I'm assuming you're not going for a "Metal" degree of break-up, in which case you can "get away" with a master volume since your mega-crunch would be generated via a pedal). Like HTH said, a Deluxe can maintain a relative degree of "clean" sound, especially at "bedroom" volumes, and also get gorgeous sounding "natural" break-up at higher volumes as well. I, myself have come to slightly prefer Vibrolux's, with a bit more "headroom", but still beautiful break-up at higher settings. These two aforementioned models are also MUCH easier to transport (Twins are a Royal Bitch to move, and casters are murder on your tubes & reverb springs), and much less expensive to maintain. Oh and, all these models have the identical infamous Fender reverb & vibrato (actually tremolo), except for the tweed model.

[SilverFaceAce]

I happen to like the 70's era SR. You can still get a good one for around $700-$1000 depending on condition. I find alot of people turn there nose to these, but I think they sound amazing. LIke it's been said a million times,,,,It's all subject to taste.

[Jazz P Bass]

I just worked on a Deluxe Reverb reissue. 22 watts. 2 x 10" cab.
It started to "break up" ie: squaring the sine wave, at a volume level of 4-5.
That was with a 100 mv input signal.
Nice sounding amp.
Along comes a reissue Twin Reverb for repair.
Talk about clean!
Starts to "break up" at 8!
Rated at 85 watts. 2 x 12" cab.
Reverb is a little hummy past 5.
Nice sounding amp.
Just my 2 pence worth.

[moorehuffman]

I hate this question, but welcome to the forum anyway.

What is "best?" What is "good?"

The simple fact is they all work, and which one I might prefer is totally irrelevant to which one you would prefer. The one that sounds best TO YOU, is the best one.


Who makes the "best" clam chowder? That is maybe a trick question since I hate clams. To me there is no such thing as good clam chowder, as long as there are clams in it. But someone else might prefer the chowder at Red Lobster, and someone else at Old COuntry Buffet. There is no right and wrong.

You are missing the real question which is "Which Twin Reverbs are most widely accepted as having the best sound." Yes you are right, at the end of the day it's just a matter of opinion, but there are certain amps that are more sought after as it's mutually agreed that they sound better to more people. It's clear to everyone else responding what the question really is. Do you "hate" that someone is simply trying to gather more info on what the consensus is? Do you not understand the value in consensus? You could apply your point to ANYTHING! Are you suggesting that you don't ever ask about anyone else's opinion on what is "best" or "good? Are you too good for that? You sound like a d*ck.

[olddawg]

Woah, and I got censored for my cat and shrimp story. Oh well...It just taught me not to post when I was drinking. Anyway... my first "real" amp when I was a kid was an early 70s, master volume, 100 watt Silver Face Twin with Utah speakers. I bought it used from an add in the paper. I bought it on other peoples recommendations. I hated the damn thing. It was unbelievably loud. It sounded best just before I blew out the Utahs. I still have an injury from moving it. What I eventually found was what I really wanted was a low wattage Marshall Plexi head and cabinet. It took me a year or so to figure that out. But that was over 35 years ago, there was no Internet, and guitar players were few and far between. If you are just starting out my advice is to play a lot of different amps. If you are not in a band, you do not need a Twin. Even if you are in a band you probably do not need one. Go to a few shows or even look on YouTube. See what people are using in clubs for the sound you want. You may find a $400 used Peavey Classic 30 or something is a perfect amp for someone like you.

[Sweetfinger]

You are missing the real question which is "Which Twin Reverbs are most widely accepted as having the best sound." Yes you are right, at the end of the day it's just a matter of opinion, but there are certain amps that are more sought after as it's mutually agreed that they sound better to more people. It's clear to everyone else responding what the question really is. Do you "hate" that someone is simply trying to gather more info on what the consensus is? Do you not understand the value in consensus? You could apply your point to ANYTHING! Are you suggesting that you don't ever ask about anyone else's opinion on what is "best" or "good? Are you too good for that? You sound like a d*ck.

This post is not a good start for you on this forum.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

This post is not a good start for you on this forum.

Yeah, no shit... take a hike moorehuffman, you're the one acting like a dick.

[soundmasterg]

You are missing the real question which is "Which Twin Reverbs are most widely accepted as having the best sound." Yes you are right, at the end of the day it's just a matter of opinion, but there are certain amps that are more sought after as it's mutually agreed that they sound better to more people. It's clear to everyone else responding what the question really is. Do you "hate" that someone is simply trying to gather more info on what the consensus is? Do you not understand the value in consensus? You could apply your point to ANYTHING! Are you suggesting that you don't ever ask about anyone else's opinion on what is "best" or "good? Are you too good for that? You sound like a d*ck.

Enzo has been around a long time here and is a well respected member moorehuffman. You on the other hand are making your first post and go out of your way to call someone else names? What is wrong with you! Have some respect for others. Enzo is exactly right in that everyone hears differently and has different preferences, so asking which one is best or not will generate a whole bunch of opinions, and all of them are valid.

Greg

[Tom Phillips]

Bla bla bla

It’s possible that someone is putting us on.

Consider the following:

1. A new member registers and puts up a first post on the same day
2. No profile information is entered
3. It’s a really jerky post
4. He decided to pick on Enzo
5. The member’s handle breaks down to “More Huff Man”
6. The Huffer is familiar with the forum or one that uses similar SW because
   
   1. Reply with quote feature is used
   2. An edit is done 11 minutes after the initial post
   
   
7. No useful advice for the OP was given.
8. No further activity after 5 days

That’s what I suspect anyway.

There is at least one good thing. He used capitalization and punctuation while he huffed.

Cheers,
Tom

[Steve Conner]

Well, for what it's worth, the guy's IP address and geolocation doesn't match any of our known pain-in-the-ass members. (I'm surprised there is so few of them.)

It's probably just some random guy who thought he did all his research right and bought the best Fender Twin, and then Enzo's post came out of leftfield and blew his world apart.

[überfuzz]

I'm not sure, is it elitism that I sniff..? Let newbies ask their questions. Post like #2 isn't really necessary to score point here or is it..? The dude only wanted to talk about his childhood dream, getting one of those Twin Reverbs.

[Sweetfinger]

When someone asks such an open-ended and subjective question for which there is no correct answer, it isn't elitist at all to ask them to clarify their question or to provide a better basis for advice. Go back to the OP and substitute "Pizza" for "model twin" and "toppings" for "speakers". The question reads about the same, is still completely subjective with no meaningful answer unless we know a bit more about what the OP actually thinks is good. You could recommend a hand tossed wood fire cooked pizza from a place in Yonkers, only to find that the OP meant frozen pizza. Also, The OP got his answer 3 years ago. So tell me, what is the best underwear? What materials and fabric weaves are most comfortable?

[überfuzz]

When someone asks such an open-ended and subjective question for which there is no correct answer, it isn't elitist at all to ask them to clarify their question or to provide a better basis for advice. Go back to the OP and substitute "Pizza" for "model twin" and "toppings" for "speakers". The question reads about the same, is still completely subjective with no meaningful answer unless we know a bit more about what the OP actually thinks is good. You could recommend a hand tossed wood fire cooked pizza from a place in Yonkers, only to find that the OP meant frozen pizza. Also, The OP got his answer 3 years ago. So tell me, what is the best underwear? What materials and fabric weaves are most comfortable?

You're trying to state that there's no elitism in this thread by posting this..?

Don't rush to defend post like #2, you won't score any 'forum gurus BEEP licking point' by that. And I sincerely hope you won't by stupid noob bashing.

For your information, there are many ways of saying, care to elaborate, #2 to is a not so good way.

[Sweetfinger]

You're trying to state that there's no elitism in this thread by posting this..?

Don't rush to defend post like #2, you won't score any 'forum gurus BEEP licking point' by that. And I sincerely hope you won't by stupid noob bashing.

For your information, there are many ways of saying, care to elaborate, #2 to is a not so good way.

I'm not here to win "points" as David Schwab can attest, and I'm not here to bash "noobs"...unless called for. You might have noticed that I was the one that answered the OP's question, and it was indeed a "noob" kind of question. I don't see anything out of line with Enzo's response and if Enzo hadn't said what he did, I might have posted something similar because I think it DID need to be said. This forum has always been technically oriented and for the most part the members here tend not to be the kind of people who sit around chit-chatting about "what pickup goes well with a Boogie Dual Rec in a PRS" or "what vintage Jensen has the most savory mids and dreamy highs". If you want that kind of discourse you can find it in abundance at The Gear Page or Harmony Central. I come here for disambiguation and to discuss specific problems and issues with equipment because this is where the people who can help hang out. If that sounds "elitist" to you then, merry Christmas! there's your elitism. This place is what it is. Don't sit down in a Thai restaurant and get bent out of shape because they don't serve hamburgers. This Zombie thread needs a "double tap."

[Steve Conner]

I agree that Enzo's argument of "it's all subjective" is not that helpful to a beginner. You need experience to discover what your taste actually is, and the usual way to get it is by wasting money on a pile of random gear until the day you find "your sound".

This can take years, and in the meantime you are evolving as a musician too. It's quite possible that the rig you end up with is one that you'd have hated when you started out.

So in that sense, maybe Enzo's argument isn't so far off.

My favourite twin would be the 70s UL ones that everyone hates, because they're cheap platforms for modding

[überfuzz]

I agree that Enzo's argument of "it's all subjective" is not that helpful to a beginner. You need experience to discover what your taste actually is, and the usual way to get it is by wasting money on a pile of random gear until the day you find "your sound".

This can take years, and in the meantime you are evolving as a musician too. It's quite possible that the rig you end up with is one that you'd have hated when you started out.

So in that sense, maybe Enzo's argument isn't so far off.

My favourite twin would be the 70s UL ones that everyone hates, because they're cheap platforms for modding

I'd say Enzo is spot on, but as I wrote. There are many ways of saying it. All the OP reads in #2 is some forum wiz trying to bash him. (Wowing followers only makes is worse by blindly defending things like #2.)

[J M Fahey]

Well, fact is that the OP opened a can of worms with his questions, which have no definite answer, and are open to endless subjective discussion.
And he did not open *one* can of worms, but *four*

Can #1)

- Which Fender Twin reverb models are average, good, and best ? And why? (I mean which year model?)

What is average? What is good? What is best ?
Most important: WHO says so? Is he to be trusted?
And then, WHY xxx says the exact opposite to what YYY does?
And what about zzz's opinion?
On and on and on.

Can #2)

- Which year model does have best speakers and what is their brand?

Same considerations.

Can #3)

- Are CBS-age models bad or good?

This might be the only question on which there is some consense.
And then, it must be qualified.
The first year or two of CBS rule were damaging, but then they half backtracked (by necessity) and cleaned their act.
And then they simply evolved even more into what they thought was necessary in a guitar amp; loud and clean, ending with the incredibly loud and clean UL types, making them much more so by offering JBL speakers, go figure.
I have friends and customers which use and *love* them.
No, they don't play smoky greasy blues, for which these are not the best.
And those later CBS Twins were not "cheaply built" by any means !!!!

Can #4)

- How about latest models 2000-2009 years?

Even in that relatively small span of time, there were many very different models to choose from: Reissues, "red knobs", Cybertwins, etc. so grouping them by year alone is meaningless.

So, in a nutshell, a proper answer for the OP question might be printed and bound, pictures and covers added, and sold in Amazon as "The Fender Twin History", 474 pages, etc.
jm2c