"So Watt" -$225.00 Weber 5E3?

[thumbs]

They have some pictures of this up on the Telecaster forum and a lively debate is raging.

[tboy]

I think I'd rather see a discussion than a debate, but for either case, here's the pictures:

sowatt_top_sm.jpg

sowatt_sm.jpg

[thumbs]

You're right... poor choice of words.

[Hobie3112]

"...a lively debate is raging."

I think political correctness is going mad if this is deemed worthy of a janitors comment!

I would have thought this was a reasonable choice of words, ditto with

"lively discussion is raging"

But weber kit is a great idea.

[tboy]

Originally Posted by thumbs

You're right... poor choice of words.

I see nothing wrong with your choice of words, Paul. In fact I think it's accurate; there is a bit of a debate going on over there.

I was really just trying to say (apparently without success) that I'd like to see a technical discussion of Ted's new import offering here in the 5E3 forum, rather than a rehash of the "price vs quality vs patriotism" aspects of the product.

[mbratch]

A "debate" isn't necessarily negative. It's just a discussion where there is more than one position being represented and verbally justified.

[thumbs]

It's not a kit. This is a fully assembled and tested 5E3 chassis, complete with tubes. Ted's blog says it's being offered as a platform for experimentation for those of us who lack the skills required to assemble a kit. As you may have guessed, it's made overseas.
I agree that this forum is not the place to discuss outsourcing, politics, or patriotism. I did think a working 5E3 chassis, at this price point, was newsworthy. In the meantime, I'll be looking forward to reading the reviews!

[balcorn80]

I just built my first amp, a 5e3-based head, but i still want to try one of these kits. It's not a pc board, it was hand assembled, but it's still cheap and definitely worth the money if it works. Plus its something you could monkey with, change values, see what happens, and you're out a minimal investment.

[RichardM]

Originally Posted by thumbs

They have some pictures of this up on the Telecaster forum and a lively debate is raging.

Do you have a link to the thread?

I can't find it.

[JoeM]

Originally Posted by thumbs

It's not a kit. This is a fully assembled and tested 5E3 chassis, complete with tubes....

Tubes are the one thing not included. (Besides the cabinet of course)

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_weber.htm#sowatt

[pontiacpete]

Originally Posted by JoeM

Tubes are the one thing not included. (Besides the cabinet of course)

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_weber.htm#sowatt

Did it go up in price all ready? $240.
I think its best to hack through building the kit. There's more to learn from making mistakes than having it already assembled.

[Tele-Cat]

Looking at those photos, I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole.

If you want to do a GOOD 5E3, Weber is NOT the way to go.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

At $240, even with no tubes, it doesn't look that bad to me... ha ha

However, I don't like the idea of those Chinese builders wiring the switching jacks wrong and you have to fix it but... maybe that's the only goof.

[Tele-Cat]

Originally Posted by Bruce / Mission Amps

At $240, even with no tubes, it doesn't look that bad to me... ha ha

However, I don't like the idea of those Chinese builders wiring the switching jacks wrong and you have to fix it but... maybe that's the only goof.

One man's trash...

I'd rather spend the money and do things correctly. Call me a purist, or a spendthrift, but I go with MM iron, Sprague Electrolytics (If only Solen would make a 16uf 500V cap, I'd never use another electrolytic), Mallory 150s and so forth. I confess, the only NOS tubes I use are the AY7 and the rectifier (I'm a big fan of JJ 6V6s and ECC803s for V2). But I like CC resistors in the signal section.

Thanks for the reply.

[Tom Phillips]

Re: "We have found that the input and output jacks are wired incorrectly. The TIP and SWITCH are reversed. You can easily reverse these and have a pretty decent little amplifier. "

So they know it's wrong but they don't fix it before delivery. Watts up with that? That must mean that they assembled for you but it was never turned on or tested. I guess that's OK for the price as long as it's disclosed. However ... think I'll just stop here and turn in for the night.

[balcorn80]

Some reason to me, for every single one to be wired backwards, it was almost intentional. Like they make the EXACT same amp for a customer who contracts them to build it, but so they can sell it for themselves, they have to switch one thing. Who knows....

[Tele-Cat]

I'd never buy anything Weber. They're great, I guess, for the builder on a severe budget, but I'd rather use parts I can trust. I'd never feel safe at a gig with one of those, it'd be like a Hot Rod Deluxe, what failure mode is raising it's ugly head this time?

[Steve Conner]

It's more likely that their overseas manufacturer goofed the wiring up. This wouldn't surprise me, they've had mistakes like that in the past, such as PTs with a center tap that was about 50 volts off center. Weber would then have had 3 options:

1: Punt the stuff out the door at a discount complete with miswiring, and have the customer fix it himself.

2: Pay American labor to rewire them.

3: Ship them all back to China for rewiring, and then have them shipped back to the US for sale.

They obviously thought option 1 would make the most profit.

Tele-Cat: I don't see why this shouldn't be a fine amp. Cheap parts don't necessarily mean bad reliability, it's bad design that messes things up. The Fender Hot Rod series are complicated PCB amps with lots of things to go wrong and several known flaws, whereas the 5E3 design is tried and tested for 50+ years.

[JoeM]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

I'd never buy anything Weber. They're great, I guess, for the builder on a severe budget, but I'd rather use parts I can trust. I'd never feel safe at a gig with one of those, it'd be like a Hot Rod Deluxe, what failure mode is raising it's ugly head this time?

And what specific Weber parts do you think fail?

[loudthud]

Weber probably sent the assembly house a "go by" that had SwitchCraft jacks or an assembly diagram that was done with SwitchCraft jacks. If any testing was done, it didn't involve pushing a signal through from input to output.

[tedmich]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

One man's trash...

I'd rather spend the money and do things correctly. Call me a purist, or a spendthrift, but I go with MM iron, Sprague Electrolytics (If only Solen would make a 16uf 500V cap, I'd never use another electrolytic)

why not 15 or 18uf at 630v?

Solen Electronique Inc.
Solen Electronique Inc.


I just bought a bag of 10 x 22uf/630v Solens for <$4 each


a bit big for cathode bypass but what the hell

[Tele-Cat]

Originally Posted by JoeM

And what specific Weber parts do you think fail?

Based on what others have told me, there's no telling, it varies. I am not a fan of Weber, the stuff they make or their business practices. I know a lot of people like them and that's fine, *I* am not one of them, and it's a topic I don't care to get into, in detail. If you like them and their products work for you, have at it, more power to you. Just, please, don't ask me to call it good.

I'm out.

[Tele-Cat]

My question in response would be, do they fit on a typical 5E3 tag board (eyelets)? I know 630V, non-electrolytic caps get pretty big.

[balcorn80]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

Based on what others have told me, there's no telling, it varies. I am not a fan of Weber, the stuff they make or their business practices. I know a lot of people like them and that's fine, *I* am not one of them, and it's a topic I don't care to get into, in detail. If you like them and their products work for you, have at it, more power to you. Just, please, don't ask me to call it good.

I'm out.

No one is asking you to call it good. We're just wondering why you're calling it bad "based on what other people have told you." It really doesn't look like you have your own experience, and just hate for some reason...
I'm not trying to defend Weber's kits, having only used(and enjoyed) their speakers, but I am trying to make as educated a decision as possible when it comes to my next build. Honestly, they make some pretty terrific-looking kits in my opinion...

[Tele-Cat]

Originally Posted by balcorn80

No one is asking you to call it good. We're just wondering why you're calling it bad "based on what other people have told you." It really doesn't look like you have your own experience, and just hate for some reason...
I'm not trying to defend Weber's kits, having only used(and enjoyed) their speakers, but I am trying to make as educated a decision as possible when it comes to my next build. Honestly, they make some pretty terrific-looking kits in my opinion...

I've explained it as much as I'm going to. I DO have experience with Weber and it was very bad. That's as much as you get. Sorry. I prefer using top-shelf parts when I build. Nothing personal and I hasten to remind you, there's no need to take offense. I'm not talking about your mom.

[balcorn80]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

I've explained it as much as I'm going to. I DO have experience with Weber and it was very bad. That's as much as you get. Sorry. I prefer using top-shelf parts when I build. Nothing personal and I hasten to remind you, there's no need to take offense. I'm not talking about your mom.

Well, that there told me more than anything you had previously said about weber. Thats what I wanted to know. They build to a price-point, aka cheap parts. Much more informative than "From what I've heard other people say". And I wasn't taking offense. I just wanted to know why exactly I should avoid them. And I agree with you. It takes just as long to install good parts as cheap parts. and when you get down to switches and what not, the price difference between a good one and a cheap one is negligible.
Also, it shows great restraint to state your opnion, and the basis thereof rather than just talk trash about them. Very mature. Bravo. And thank you for the information.

[Tele-Cat]

Originally Posted by balcorn80

Well, that there told me more than anything you had previously said about weber. Thats what I wanted to know. They build to a price-point, aka cheap parts. Much more informative than "From what I've heard other people say". And I wasn't taking offense. I just wanted to know why exactly I should avoid them. And I agree with you. It takes just as long to install good parts as cheap parts. and when you get down to switches and what not, the price difference between a good one and a cheap one is negligible.
Also, it shows great restraint to state your opnion, and the basis thereof rather than just talk trash about them. Very mature. Bravo. And thank you for the information.

Oh, you caught me in a good mood, that's all.

When you get down to almost all of it, the cost difference is pretty small, except for transformers, and maybe the chassis itself. Resistors are incredibly cheap, signal caps are cheap, electrolytics cost more but as I said I'm looking for a way to get away from electrolytics and use Solens for filters. THe physical dimensions are the sticking point.

I'm actually going to take my building to another level and start making my own boards. I've used several from turretboards.com and Ken does great work, but phenolic isn't very expensive and if I have a template, I can crank out tag boards for much smaller cost, and I can get eyelets from a fabric store or a hardware store. I have several people who want to pay me to build, but I told them if they are looking to do it on the cheap, to contact someone else, if my name goes on it, nothing but the best goes in it. I have good sources for MM iron and other things. I use JMI Music and Hoffman Amplifiers, Tube amplifier parts, tube amps, tubes for a lot of things, Mojo for cabs.

Thanks for not taking offense. On other fora, many take any discouraging words about Weber as a personal affront and get all exercised about it. :-\

[JoeM]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

Based on what others have told me, there's no telling, it varies. I am not a fan of Weber, the stuff they make or their business practices. I know a lot of people like them and that's fine, *I* am not one of them, and it's a topic I don't care to get into, in detail. If you like them and their products work for you, have at it, more power to you. Just, please, don't ask me to call it good.

I'm out.

OK. And you're certainly entitlied to your opinion. I have a Weber kit and am very pleased with it. Only upgraded the jacks and switches, and where my particular build differed from the kit I used some Mallory 150s. Ted had great service and answered any questions I had. I think a lot of inexperienced builders are drawn in by the lower prices, and some issues are more due to build errors. (Which end of the solder iron do I hold?) In the 2 years since I completed mine it has given me great service. Check out the Weber boards, plenty of very happy owners.

[Tele-Cat]

As I said, I have no issue with those who like Weber stuff. I don't. I want better stuff in my amps. If you're happy, that's great. I did not have a good customer experience with Weber, I'm not a fan. No biggie. Nuthin personal.

[JoeM]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

Nuthin personal.

No Problem. I didnt take it that way.

There are some very good kits available elsewhere. (Mission, Allen etc.)

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Originally Posted by Tele-Cat

One man's trash...

I'd rather spend the money and do things correctly. Call me a purist, or a spendthrift, but I go with MM iron, Sprague Electrolytics (If only Solen would make a 16uf 500V cap, I'd never use another electrolytic), Mallory 150s and so forth. I confess, the only NOS tubes I use are the AY7 and the rectifier (I'm a big fan of JJ 6V6s and ECC803s for V2). But I like CC resistors in the signal section.

Thanks for the reply.

Well, I'm not saying I think the Chinese built amp is a treasure nor is it anyone's trash as you are implying.
I'd be one of the last to defend anyone's marriage with Chinese industry and China's unfair trade practices.
But we also have ourselves to blame for that.

Also, "do things correctly" is an opinion... over the many years of helping novice builders, I've heard some homebrew, "cobbed together with junk parts" amps that absolutely ripped.
My take on it has always been what sounds good... is good.

"Purist?"
I've used TONS (well that's a stretch) of MM iron.
They are very good and their OTs sound good but, I think they're over priced for what you get... and they are not built like any vintage trannys... unless you can find vintage tweed trannys with nylon bobbins, plastic paper and machine wound like modern stuff is. ha ha

You can use all my allotment of Sprague filter caps.
IMHO, Sprague filter caps are way over priced and very close to a complete waste of money anymore.
As a matter of fact over the last couple years I've had too many of them get hot and or go bad in a month or two of use and they never used to do that. Same thing with those junk CE Dist/Antique Electronic Supply multi cap cans.
Regardless the F&T 500v caps are my first choice now, but even the import TAD 500v caps are excellent.

I use M150s in most of my work... very nice caps.

I hear no difference between CC resistors and carbon film in most all amps. I think that is 99% bunk, especially in simple amps like 50's guitar amps.
I'd defy anyone here in and A B test to tell me which amp has carbon film or carbon comp resistors.

I can't argue the NOS 12AY7 and 5Y3GT comment... that is the right choice for me too.

[Tele-Cat]

Originally Posted by JoeM

No Problem. I didnt take it that way.

There are some very good kits available elsewhere. (Mission, Allen etc.)

I did one kit (a CHamp) and after that, I just took a wiring diagram and made a BOM for the 5F4 I built. I looked at Weber's BOM but it really didn't jibe with mine so I just used mine. I just made one for a 5E3. I sourced the parts myself from Hoffman and JMI. What sucks is the tweed-style fuse holders (the NOS ones) are all but gone now. All my amps have them and I don't expect I'll be building any more for myself, but it sucks that no one makes 'em like the old ones. A minor point to be sure, but I like the old-style fuse holders.

I like this forum, glad I found it. I gotta stay out of the politics section, though. I get cranky.

[Tele-Cat]

Originally Posted by Bruce / Mission Amps

You can use all my allotment of Sprague filter caps.

You know, I think you've got a point. THe TAD caps appear to be pretty good and your endorsement helps.

I use M150s in most of my work... very nice caps.

I was talking to Skip Simmons who said the same thing.

I hear no difference between CC resistors and carbon film in most all amps. I think that is 99% bunk, especially in simple amps like 50's guitar amps.
I'd defy anyone here in and A B test to tell me which amp has carbon film or carbon comp resistors.

Well, I tell ya what, I'll give 'em a try. The one thing that's a pain is it seems like the only place I can find ALL the board components is Hoffman, and he doesn't stock carbon film. Kits are fine but I don't need anyone to put the parts together.

I can't argue the NOS 12AY7 and 5Y3GT comment... that is the right choice for me too.

Hell, Bruce, I don't think anyone would argue that. But I do see your point about carbon film resistors, and they're 10 cents each instead of 30. Adds up.

[JoeM]

You may have seen this of a Sprague Atom cut open. I guess there no longer the same cap as years ago. (This may have been orginally posted on the Hoffman board)

[TD_Madden]

Originally Posted by tedmich

why not 15 or 18uf at 630v?

Solen Electronique Inc.
Solen Electronique Inc.


I just bought a bag of 10 x 22uf/630v Solens for <$4 each


a bit big for cathode bypass but what the hell

How do those work as replacements for the power-supply filter caps...tone-wise and size-wise?