An Interesting Read??

[NightWinder]

Larrivee RS-4 Electric Guitar, TWELFTH FRET

[David Schwab]

Good article...

I love that first winder ... crazy looking contraption!

Those Larrivees are very nice guitars.

[StarryNight]

I've played these at the local music store (L&M) unplugged but it felt very nice and looked well built. Obviously direct competition with the Les Pauls of the world considering the price. Great story

[JGundry]

Those Bachi/Leesona 115 winders are very cool machines. Very compact and very solid. I have a Bachi/Leesona 115 winder and it can wind extremely fast if you want it to. They started being made in 1962/1963 and over the years have been made in many variants branded to Bachi, Leesona and Essex. Certainly a machine that should be on the short list for anyone wanting a vintage coil winder.

Side note. I have a Larrivee mandolin and love it!

[Electricdaveyboy]

Nice,
thanks for the link.
Can anybodytell how these wisker disks work?
tx
david

[kevinT]

Bake a pie, eat a pie.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Electricdaveyboy

Nice,
thanks for the link.
Can anybodytell how these wisker disks work?
tx
david

It just stop the wire whipping around for people using a tensioner instead of their fingers.
Nice article. I look forward to upgrading those in the future.

[belwar]

Originally Posted by Electricdaveyboy

Nice,
thanks for the link.
Can anybodytell how these wisker disks work?
tx
david

They help in the de-reeling process. It basically adds just a little bit of tension right at the spool to keep wire from being thrown from it as it de-reels. They work like a charm and probably ammount to about 1/5th of the total tension required. They are dirt cheap from Azonics. I first saw them at Seymour Duncans, and then a few people here recommended them to me.

[Possum]

You really don't need one of those things, put your magnet wire in a plastic bucket a little oversized than the spool, works and is alot cheaper. I set my spools in a tall plastic waste basket, it goes up through a small plastic ring next to the felt tensioner and its all good. Fralin uses coffee cans if I remember, there's a photo somewhere of him winding that way.....

[John_H]

I'm willing to wager that they sound pretty good. Beautiful guitar. The silver on the headstock is a nice touch, and I'm diggin' those fretmarkers.

[JGundry]

Whisker disks are cheap. In the videos I have seen of Seymour's Leesona 102 they have several whisker disks stacked on each wire spool. Maybe they are using them for tension? They were available in the 50's.I use one but not for tension really. It helps keep the wire manageable.

[belwar]

Originally Posted by Possum

You really don't need one of those things, put your magnet wire in a plastic bucket a little oversized than the spool, works and is alot cheaper. I set my spools in a tall plastic waste basket, it goes up through a small plastic ring next to the felt tensioner and its all good. Fralin uses coffee cans if I remember, there's a photo somewhere of him winding that way.....

It's definetly not a NEED thing, but they do work exceptionally well, and do add a little consistant tension. On a winder like this a spool of wire in a bucket on the floor doesnt work. The wire needs to come from overhead.

[belwar]

Originally Posted by JGundry

Whisker disks are cheap. In the videos I have seen of Seymour's Leesona 102 they have several whisker disks stacked on each wire spool. Maybe they are using them for tension? They were available in the 50's.I use one but not for tension really. It helps keep the wire manageable.

I have two new 5" ones from the 1960's, I'll sell them to you! NOS wisker disks! It's the PAF secret everyones been missing.

[Possum]

When I sent back my Azonic tensioner because it broke the wire every time from the jerking gauge spring meter, they suggested trying one of these
Azonic Products - Acu-Flex
It didn't look like it would work with my setup so I passed on it.
At their homepage they show their tensioner and wisker disk in action:
Azonic Products - World's leading manufacturer for the coil winding industry. Wisker Disk, rack mounting systems for multiple winding operations.
Note that the coil being wound is a symetrical ROUND coil, not an asymetrical guitar pickup. Guitar pickups cause the meter spring to bounce crazily until it breaks the wire.

[JGundry]

Originally Posted by belwar

I have two new 5" ones from the 1960's, I'll sell them to you! NOS wisker disks! It's the PAF secret everyones been missing.

No, sorry everyone knows the nylon fishing line used in the disks in the 50's came from Madagascar. THOSE are the Whisker Disks you want. In 1960 an earthquake destroyed the Madagascar facility and the original formulation was destroyed along with the factory. Duh!

[David Schwab]

The whisker disks would work with my current setup... the spool is sitting on the floor!

It really does whip around quit a bit when I'm winding fast. I need a tensioner... I wind so fast these days that it burns my fingers... a little tape helps that.

[kevinT]

I think the disks work better with the 5 lb spools that are white plastic and have the square edges. I find that I really don't need them for the smaller-size spools.

Obviously the disks add tension because of drag on the wiskers so you have to take it into account when you're trying to decide on a tension for a specific design.

[David Schwab]

Yeah, it's the big 5 pound spool that really has the wire whipping around. The smaller spools don't seem as bad.

[Joe Gwinn]

Originally Posted by Possum

When I sent back my Azonic tensioner because it broke the wire every time from the jerking gauge spring meter, they suggested trying one of these
Azonic Products - Acu-Flex
It didn't look like it would work with my setup so I passed on it.
At their homepage they show their tensioner and wisker disk in action:
Azonic Products - World's leading manufacturer for the coil winding industry. Wisker Disk, rack mounting systems for multiple winding operations.
Note that the coil being wound is a symmetrical ROUND coil, not an asymetrical guitar pickup. Guitar pickups cause the meter spring to bounce crazily until it breaks the wire.

I think that the problem with the Azotic tensioner (other than whisker disks) is that the dancer (the pulley on a stick at the top where the wire takes a 90 degree turn) is too heavy. The angle of this arm controls tension.

I bet a whisker disk plus a dancer made of a music wire spring with a teflon grommet at the end (instead of the pulley) will work for pickups, as the music wire will be able to bob in unison with the pulsations in wire speed caused by winding onto an oblong bobbin, following the variations more or less perfectly.

[RedHouse]

[QUOTE=Possum;111034]... put your magnet wire in a plastic bucket a little oversized than the spool, works and is alot cheaper...QUOTE]

+1

I also attach a medium length plastic funnel to the top after placing the wire spool inside, no whipping at all.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by Joe Gwinn

... dancer...music... bob in unison with the pulsations ...

All to a techno beat!

[boom...boom...boom...boom...boom...boom...boom...boom... boom...boom...]

[Joe Gwinn]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

All to a techno beat!

[boom...boom...boom...boom...boom...boom...boom...boom... boom...boom...]

Need syncopation.

[kevinT]

no... you guys got it all wrong. It's head banging that the movement of the tensioning arm represents. At least that is what it looks like to me when I have the music cranked up to Pantera when I'm winding..

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by kevinT

...I have the music cranked up to Pantera when I'm winding..

That's speed winding!

[NightWinder]

The artical just seems so cut and paste from here what was said a coon's age ago

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by NightWinder

The artical just seems so cut and paste from here what was said a coon's age ago

+1.

Plus, he's not doing anything different than anyone else. i.e., research, proper materials, etc...

[jonson]

+ another 1. Even research should be acknowledged and thanked.
Hi SPENCE how yah doin Bruv, hows Sam he ok.

[Possum]

I have found guys on Ebay ripping off text from my website and the rare auctions I've done. The only "research" they ever did was to steal other's verbage. The "PAFs" they are selling are nothing more than StewMac kits to the core :-) The public can't tell the difference unfortunately. Its gotten so I can read a pickup maker's self promotional copy and tell what level of experience they are at. David at Tonequest sent me an interview response from some guy in Russia or someplace over there and he repeated every cliche and unfounded myth I think I've ever heard about PAFs. I could tell all he was doing was using StewMac kits and making big claims for them.

[NightWinder]

Originally Posted by Possum

I have found guys on Ebay ripping off text from my website and the rare auctions I've done. The only "research" they ever did was to steal other's verbage. The "PAFs" they are selling are nothing more than StewMac kits to the core :-) The public can't tell the difference unfortunately. Its gotten so I can read a pickup maker's self promotional copy and tell what level of experience they are at. David at Tonequest sent me an interview response from some guy in Russia or someplace over there and he repeated every cliche and unfounded myth I think I've ever heard about PAFs. I could tell all he was doing was using StewMac kits and making big claims for them.

SO the shits getting pretty thick eh ol' bird? Tasting the same Kool-aid gets nasty- LOL to me , thats the hardest part about making a new model. Putting the sounds into words...

[Spence]

Originally Posted by jonson

+ another 1. Even research should be acknowledged and thanked.
Hi SPENCE how yah doin Bruv, hows Sam he ok.

I found Sam choking on his bok choi the other day. Managed to free his airways and get a line into him. Since then he's just been muttering something about the people he's imparted advice to who never give him credit.
Personally I owe a lot to him and a little to sheer persistence.

[Possum]

Sam's helped me alot as well, but in the end you have to do the work one's self for it to mean anything and make it work. Alot of vintage stuff had many variations, thats for sure so almost anything you can name was never one thing. Thanks Sam! I'm still waiting for my laundry to come back though, whuss up with that?

[jonson]

"Your laundry" That shouldn't give him a problem. I'm more concerned about me Kieth Moon(Uncle Ernie) fiddle about rubber chicken. Hope he ain't going to turn it into chopsuey.

[kevinT]

Thanks Spence, Possum, David Schwab, Sam Lee Guy, Joe Gwinn, JGundry, Salvarson, Skinnywire, Zhangliqun, Nightwinder, mick, Belwar, Redhouse, jonson, StanH, Voxrules, Wolfe, Jason Lollar, medialex, chevalij, David Kerr, David King, ken, mystic, cordroyeu, Jack Briggs, pupoholic...I know I missed some....thanks to all those who have contributed in some form to my pickup knowledge. Me, myself, and I would like to thank you. You guys ROCK!

....oppps....thanks in advance to all the new folks too that will contribute in the future.

[jonson]

I'll second that Kevin and also Possom's thoughts on a certain amount must be worked out by yourselfs. We all probably forget about the hundreds if not thousands of guys on here that don't contribute and still read and maybe or maybe not absorb those facts. Straight foward techniques are nothing to be held back but, there is always a time when you have to say iv'e taken a long time to get there so fuckit it stays with me. How else would all the new stuff and all the inventive stuff be born. Stay together but remain individual as well.