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09-29-2009, 05:46 PM
| #526 |
| Pickup Maker  Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 4,974
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I agree. With peak hold off, the numbers jump around too much, and you have to try and spot, and remember the highest number you saw, so you can average them out.
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09-29-2009, 06:00 PM
| #527 |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: PDX
Posts: 1,017
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Brad, I think Possum has a point here, knowing the peak reading along a long bar magnet probably isn't all that useful if the reading is way off the map compared to the other readings along the edge. Ideally one could measure the average reading along the whole magnet at once. I do like the peak hold and I wouldn't want to give it up but I don't think it necessarily gives you an accurate picture of a bar every time. I think taking readings over the poles of an assembled humbucker probably gives you the best idea of how well and evenly magnetized a particular magnet is. I have only just started to use gauss meter so I don't have a very firm appreciation of what the best method is going to be but I can see right away that a bar ranges wildly along it's length from 150 say to 700 peaks near the corners. I suspect a perfectly magnetized bar would measure about 550 all along the edge... |
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09-30-2009, 03:20 AM
| #528 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
| Quote:
 We all have our own ideas on how and what is valuable data to observe and collect and Possum is a man of his own mind and devices. He doesn't see the benefit of this asset. You do know the readings are not adding up to some "way off the map" value right?, it's simply remembering the last measured highest value for you until you reach another higher number. Remeber all hall effect sensors have a active area of about the size of the point of a pin so readings will fluctuate not average. You should be interested in finding high spots and knowing them, it can make an otherwise good pickup out of balance. Look again at the picture above, you can clearly see how to get readings at various segments (the bar pic on the left) you find a spot, go into peak-hold mode and move the probe vertically a couple times and bang, you're done there, then move down to another spot along the length and repeat, do this 3 or 4 times and you have a decent profile of the magnet and it's peak output at any given place (you chose). Why not average? well for example I have the A5 bar here in front of me right now that Wolfe charged on his charger and gave me. This particular A5 bar has 810-G/peak at one end, 650-G/peak in the middle, and 890-G/peak at the other end. I'm talking about the 1/2" ends not the 1/8" edges here. (I marked the places with a ultrafine sharpie for future reference) So installing this magnet one way can favor the low-E with that 890-G or if you flip it (maintaining N/S polarity) it can favor the high-E with the 890-G. While the D and G string poles are always known to be 150-G less on this magnet. Why would one want to know an "average" down the length of this magnet and ignore the huge variance from end-to-end, and in the middle? I suppose one could just raise the D and G poles up higher toward the string to balance the pickup out more but that would make it look weird. Further consider that magnet in relation to this next one, another A5 sand cast bar I have here (from a BurstBucker) which varies less than 30-G/peak measured in the same 3 places down it's length again getting the peak off it's 1/8" edges. If you had these two magnets to build 1 decent pickup out of, would you choose based on an average reading? not likely. I do agree with you about measuring poles after pickup assembly but for evaluation of complete pickups and their relationship to other pickups, not so much for charging or selecting charged magnets for one's best pickup builds.  Fluctuating readings are the way it is, regardless of peak-hold or normal mode, an Elepro or AlphaLab meter. I just don't see the "way out there, off the map" point that you and Possum are on about. Is it anything to do with those black helicopters you were talking about? 
__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com Last edited by RedHouse; 09-30-2009 at 03:40 AM. Reason: dang typo's | |
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10-02-2009, 12:07 AM
| #529 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: May 2006 Location: /usr/bin
Posts: 209
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I finished assembling the gaussmeter last night and took some readings, very happy  . I left the sensor flat also and wired in the cap near the sensor (using a cable around 14mm in length) and used a microphone connector to attach the probe to the unit. Thanks a heap guys.
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10-02-2009, 02:01 PM
| #530 | ||||
| Senior Member  Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 217
| Quote:
Quote:
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 yes.... i could add an average mode too.. it operation could be:- put probe near magnet and start average mode and start probe movement along magnet - after 3-5 seconds display show an average of about a thousand of readings (each one taken with 1024 samples) what about this???
__________________ .......my gaussmeter project..... schematic & pcb ........ .......first pickup with my cnc winder........ | ||||
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10-02-2009, 04:10 PM
| #531 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
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__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com | |
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10-02-2009, 04:15 PM
| #532 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 217
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not upgrade... only in future gaussmeter.....
__________________ .......my gaussmeter project..... schematic & pcb ........ .......first pickup with my cnc winder........ |
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10-02-2009, 04:38 PM
| #533 | |
| Pickup Maker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 4,974
| Quote:
 But thank you again for the very cool design, and for sharing it with us here. | |
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10-02-2009, 04:39 PM
| #534 | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
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__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com | ||
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10-03-2009, 04:49 AM
| #535 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, MA area
Posts: 1,181
| Quote:
In addition to an averaging mode, what would be useful would be a way to measure magnetic potential, just as done using Chattock and Rogowski Coils. US Patent 4,625,166 to Steingroever shows how to do this with multiple hall probes, but one could use one moving hall probe and a computer instead. | |
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10-16-2009, 02:03 AM
| #536 |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 38
| Help with Gaussmeter Kit
I've finally found someone to assemble the kit (not trusting my experience in electronics), and he told me the chip was not programmed. It seems like everyone got theirs to work fine, so I have a few questions... He told me that the thing powers up fine, but the screen only shows blocks in the first line, and nothing in the second. He seems to think the chip is not programmed. I'm pretty sure this is not the case, but any information would be appreciated. If the PIC is defective, is their any way to get another, and if so how much? I haven't seen the assembly, but he is more than qualified, so I'm not sure what to do next? Thanks, Jeff |
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10-16-2009, 03:37 AM
| #537 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
| Quote:
Perhaps you can get your friend to post his problem here and maybe it can be helped with.
__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com | |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to RedHouse For This Useful Post: | Jeff Callahan (10-16-2009) |
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10-16-2009, 05:47 AM
| #538 | |
| Pickup Maker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 4,974
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10-16-2009, 06:00 AM
| #539 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 217
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yes i tested all PICs with a gaussmeter built just for this test.... (you can see it in a photo in the previous page of this thread).... just for not have this problems!!  then: or an esd burned your pic, or it went in the socket on the wrong side..... say to your friend that screen shows blocks in the first line and nothing in the second when LCD is not initialized, this occurs also when pic is burnt ..... why he said it is unprogrammed and not burnt???  please post some photo of your pcb on both side.... however.... Redhouse have a 1+ pic that i sent him as spare part.... ciao
__________________ .......my gaussmeter project..... schematic & pcb ........ .......first pickup with my cnc winder........ Last edited by -Elepro-; 10-16-2009 at 06:40 AM. |
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10-16-2009, 04:00 PM
| #540 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
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__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com | |
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10-16-2009, 05:52 PM
| #541 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 217
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Brad, what's the "extra part"?..... you name "Extra part" but i sent that as "spare part" (and i still have email i sent you where i said this) certainly not for your profit.... in group buy was 19 persons but you paid for 23 PICs.... i sent 1 pic for test and after test i sent 22 + 1 spare part ..... 24 in total who did buy more than one PIC? why you sold the spare part? bye
__________________ .......my gaussmeter project..... schematic & pcb ........ .......first pickup with my cnc winder........ |
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10-17-2009, 02:37 AM
| #542 |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 38
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I just talked to the engineer who assembled the kit, and he is out of town until monday, so I'll post some pics as soon as I get them. He says the trim pot has been adjusted, and the PIC has been installed correctly. If this is the case, Elepro -- can I get another PIC? I'm willing to pay for the shipping and for the chip, but not for the program, since it seems like I already paid for this. I think this is fair, please let me know.
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10-17-2009, 04:57 AM
| #543 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
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WTF? Three people bought more than one PIC, there was one kit left over which was sold to realtonecustompickup, are you intimating that I cheated you, or the group?  You sold us gauss meter PIC's in good faith, of which some are apparently not working correctly (my 2 are working right...so far  ).Elepro, it's up to you to step-up and make things right with anyone who has problems with their PIC's. You designed them and programmed them, you are soley responsible for their fitness. I tried to get you to agree to letting me download the hex code onto chips here in the US but you said NO and insisted you want total control over the code and would only sell pre-programmed PIC's. Well you have it, and now you need to do something about it because people are having problems with your code/PIC's I organised the group-buy of your product...in good faith, I am not the designer, or manufacturer, it is totally your responsibilty Elepro. Jeff and Joe's PIC's aren't working so you need to to step-up and do the right thing and help these guys out. This has turned such a shame. It started out as such a good thing, proceeded through all kinds of logistical issues etc and I spent much time and effort personaly seeing this through. Now we're here at the end of the road and some peoples PIC's are bad ...and you are pointing the finger at me. Dude, that's bad form, really bad form. I cannot warrant or guarantee the PIC's. I tried to get Elepro into an agreement with the hex code so I could burn them myself but he declined. Therefore I cannot be the one to guarantee/warranty the PIC's, you must seek remedy from Elepro
__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com | |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to RedHouse For This Useful Post: | Jeff Callahan (10-17-2009) |
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10-17-2009, 07:44 AM
| #544 | |||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 217
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you and Joe will have your PIC for free.... i thought at an eventual problem from start... for this i sent to brad a 1+ spare part.... i already said it in my first post after your comunication.... Quote:
(i didn't know about Joe's PIC when wrote this).....then don't worry.... only you have to wait more because it has to come from italy and not from redhouse.... we don't know why.... Quote:
Brad, you say many things in provocatively manner.. but not respond at a simple question... why you sold the PIC that i sent you as spare part? ok not important... i don't want continue any futile discussion... we all can read a change in your behaviour towards me... in this thread and in the cnc controller thread.... only you are angry because i refused your business agreement..... I'm sorry.... bye
__________________ .......my gaussmeter project..... schematic & pcb ........ .......first pickup with my cnc winder........ Last edited by -Elepro-; 10-17-2009 at 03:25 PM. | |||
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10-17-2009, 05:25 PM
| #545 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
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Why make a big deal about it anyway the PIC's are $2.45 you were paid 452 euro's. ($660.63) It's good that you will make things right for folks who have paid you money and find themselves with a bad PIC, it's called doing the right thing. None of this has anything to do with me. You keep looking to me to "handle" things for you when my part in the group-buy is finished. When Jeff or Joe report a problem to you, you need to step-up and deal with it, yourself, don't bring me into it. It's up to you to support your products. Specially if you intend to sell people here a 3-PIC set for the CNC Winder. People have to be able to trust you with quite a bit more money and this is the place to start building trust...or not. Elepro, I'm not angry with you, sure I'm disappointed a bit.... I made you an offer which you rejected, now we're done so let it go dude. [let's keep private matters private, via PM or email... thanks for understanding... your Imoderator II]
__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com Last edited by David Schwab; 10-18-2009 at 05:08 PM. | |
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10-17-2009, 05:51 PM
| #546 |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, MA area
Posts: 1,181
| It's too soon for finger-pointing
Gentlemen. Let's figure out what went wrong first. Then we can fight. Nor can I think of a way one can mis-program the PIC to cause meltdown, so it's most likely a circuit problem. Elpro asked for a photo of my circuit. I assume that his first instinct is that I misassembled the unit, which would be my suspicion too. I will provide the photo and perform the requested tests. |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to Joe Gwinn For This Useful Post: | David King (10-18-2009) |
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10-17-2009, 05:55 PM
| #547 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,125
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As far as I know, Elepro is the only one here who made any real money on this deal. I know he wrote the code and burned the chips, which is worth something, but without the help of the forum members input on the program features and without Red House's organization of the group buy, he wouldn't have been able to sell anywhere near as many of these things. The PICs can be damaged in handling, as well as during assembly, so there is no real way to point blame for the dead ones. The damage could have happened anywhere, at any time. In fact all of us that have working meters could find that one day our PICs could turn up dead as well. What I'd like to know is what Elepro will offer for a replacement? Will we have to just buy a new one at his full price? Or as Jeff has suggested, will we be able to purchase a replacement without paying a second time for the programming? | |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to 52 Bill For This Useful Post: | RedHouse (10-18-2009) |
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10-17-2009, 06:43 PM
| #548 | |||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 217
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Joe, you know about electronics.... in schematic there are 7805 with its caps, pic with its cap and push button and sensor.... where can be problem? Quote:
Quote:
about future.... like all guarantees.... you send me the damaged part at your expense and received by me in original external condition... and I re-send PIC without paying a second time for the programming bye
__________________ .......my gaussmeter project..... schematic & pcb ........ .......first pickup with my cnc winder........ Last edited by -Elepro-; 10-17-2009 at 06:52 PM. | |||
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| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to -Elepro- For This Useful Post: |
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10-18-2009, 05:46 AM
| #549 | |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 38
| Quote:
I'll PM my address, let me know when you ship. Jeff Last edited by tboy; 10-18-2009 at 06:25 AM. Reason: quote repair | |
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10-18-2009, 05:11 PM
| #550 | |
| Pickup Maker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 4,974
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The number of working meters shows that the circuit is good. But stuff happens when you build things. I think we had a very good ratio of working meters to non working meters. | |
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10-18-2009, 06:05 PM
| #551 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
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In retrospect I see it would have been good to re-work the layout of the PCB so the sensor pads lined up with the sensor leads and eliminating that crossed-over wire thing. (see attached pic) My two meters work great for the most part, the first has been active since mid July IIRC and it still works fine. I use either one of mine almost every day. I'm attaching a pic of my bench meter which uses detachable sensor lead and a much bigger display so I don't have to wear my glasses to read it.The only small issue I have seen with the gauss meter operation is that every one-in-a-long-while it appears to lock up after many measurements and being on for a long time. So far the work-around has been simply re-booting it (power-off, power-on) then it works fine for a long time again. It doesn't happen very often but perhaps some code fine-tuning might be needed in that area.
__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com Last edited by RedHouse; 10-18-2009 at 06:26 PM. Reason: added picture of suggested PCB | |
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10-18-2009, 09:09 PM
| #552 |
| Member  Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 94
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Nice bench meter Brian! |
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10-18-2009, 09:22 PM
| #553 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 192
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The wiring of the sensor was a bit confusing, but overall the construction was fast and easy for me. It's sad that some are having problems. It is however enlightening that they are getting the needed support. I'm hoping I can count on mine to work for years to come. | |
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10-18-2009, 09:34 PM
| #554 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, MA area
Posts: 1,181
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10-31-2009, 08:50 PM
| #555 |
| Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 94
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Finally, I built mine! Found some spare time today and decided to finish it. It works perfectly! I did the calibration and I've done my first measurements a few minutes ago!  Thanks to Elepro for his great project and Redhouse who managed the group buy! I did shot some pics but I have to upload them. When I'll find some time I'll upload and post them over here... |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to spy For This Useful Post: | RedHouse (11-01-2009) |
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11-06-2009, 04:19 PM
| #557 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 684
| Quote:
__________________ -Brad (this is where stuff goes that nobody wants to read) ClassicAmplification.com | |
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11-06-2009, 05:21 PM
| #558 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: York Pa
Posts: 492
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I'm digging this. I just finished building the one I got for my work and checked out some forged steel. Interestingly enough, when whole (this is a cylinder shape), it's not magnetic, but if you cut out a wedge, the ends are magnetic. So it looks like the field is concentric with the part and not radiated outward. I've yet to fully understand the implications of this, but since we keep blowing holes through parts unintentionally (TIG welds), knowing if the magnetic field of the part is assisting in the problem is a good thing to run up the flag pole.
__________________ -Mike |
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11-06-2009, 05:29 PM
| #559 |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 80
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Maybe the trama occuring during the act of cutting it temporarily magnetises it. Kinda like how you can take an iron rod and slam it into a fire hydrant and use it to pick up keys out of a drainage grate. (thank you MacGyver)
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11-06-2009, 06:03 PM
| #560 |
| Pickup Maker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 4,974
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If you align any piece of mild steel North-South and whack it with a hammer, it will become magnetized.
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