Gaussmeter Kit Group-Buy

[David Schwab]

I'm also fine with USPS, and the in-house PCB's, and any payment method.

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by automan

I've sort of lost track at this point the total cost with all the upgrades. Feel free to upgrade whatever you want for me as long as we don't break $100. That was the limit I set on myself when the thread first started and it seemed to come in below that when I agreed to buy. It's easy for these things to nickel and dime up up and away.

Yes automan we're still under the $100 mark. I think that was everyone's goal in this whether it was mentioned or not so you're not alone. Don't worry, you can bail anytime up until "last call".

To re-cap:

We have two totals (both exclude shipping and payment type) that we need to agree as a group upon, either:

Vote for one of the following:
Kit w/o terminals = $68.83
Kit w/Terminals = $81.05

The shipping is currently being agreed upon right now (though I didn't see you vote yet on which method you prefer) the choice for inside USA particpants is:

Vote for one of the following:
USPS Parcel Post (slow but cheap, likely under $3)
USPS Priority Post (2 day deliver, but $4.95)

(just checked USPS website- Priority is now $4.95)

The last cost issue brough to the table was regarding the method of payment:

Paypal and Credit Card Transactions:

Some participants have asked to pay via PayPal with their own credit card.

Paypal offers the option of using a credit card (Visa/MC) instead of the normal direct money transfer from your bank account ...but... if I accept a Paypal payment that was done with a credit card, Paypal takes 3% plus 35¢ right off the top.
(roughly 3.3%)

If you are still following, that means that if you want to pay through Paypal and you use your credit card then I would end up paying Paypal for your transaction.

Under other circumstances that would be ok but not in this case. If I was buying these parts and marking-up the price to make a profit, then it would be ok for me to absorb the transaction fee, but in this case (a group-buy) I'm only ordering, and distributing parts at their actual cost so it's inappropriate for me to eat the fee.

So if you are intending to pay for his through Paypal with a credit card, you will need to add 3.3% to your share of your payment to pay for the paypal transaction fee.

Is it clear now on what the costs are? you are asking for a total while the group (including yourself) has not yet entirely voted on which choices we want, and it is a group-buy so the group majority makes the decision through posting their choice in this thread.

So now automan, what are your choices so we can add your vote to the decisions and come closer to having a rock-solid cost?

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by -Elepro-

I counted many time and i think that you are 11 ...

Does that get us a better discount?

Just kidding, yes when I added the last person I forgot to increment the total {list++} thanks for pointing that out Elepro, and keep working on that discount!

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

I'm also fine with USPS, and the in-house PCB's, and any payment method.

Ok David, and what say ye on the terminals-vs-solder to board option?

[RedHouse]

I've noticed since the original post of this thread, when I asked if any of the members who already have a commercial meter would participate in helping validate the DIY meter we are doing in this group-buy, we haven't had any takers. (no posts or PM's)

A search of the forum threads which mention gauss meters comes up with a list of 6 members who have said they own commercial gauss meters, it's hard to believe none are willing to help out validating this effort.

I live in the Seattle area (Sammamish, Wa) and understand that both Wolfe M. and Jason L live in the area, I'll try to contact them and see if either has a commercial gauss meter and may be willing to assist.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by RedHouse

Ok David, and what say ye on the terminals-vs-solder to board option?

The terminals are for the probe and stuff? I could go either way. I'm fine with soldering to the board, but if the terminals are a good thing to have (I didn't look over the board and parts in a while from the original post) than I'll go that way.

What's everyone else want?

[defaced]

Originally Posted by RedHouse

Defaced (Mike), not shure if I get your point. You said you to count you as "possibly in", are you definately in now?

If you are definately in and contributing the notion that we should consider paying $17 (+ Ship) for a double-sided board with mask and silk screening? (rather than the $9 PCB boards I have offered to include) we would need to know when could you have them delivered to me for inclusion in the kit?

Lets see what the others who are definately in would like to do, after all it's a group buy, not an ala-carte right?.

What say y'all, shall we pursue the BatchPCB - Home professional PCB for this group-buy?

Defaced (Mike), so if it's all good and we vote yes on going this route, when can you have them delivered to me for inclusion in the kit? we would need some time estimate I would think, perhaps you can contact them and post the actual cost estimate and delivery time so we could make a decision?

BTW Mike thanks for volunteering to head this up, I personally have enough on my plate with what I've offered to do already. Which bring up another point, how would group members pay you for this? I'm not prepared to invest in BatchPCB on behalf of anyone.

Did I offend you in some way? The tone of your reply and your assumptions regarding my volunteering indicate to me that I stepped on your toes, which was not my intent. I know how little I like making and drilling PCBs, and from the discussion in the Gaussmeter thread, I figured I'd post up this option because to me it seems pretty cost effective, especially once you split up the setup fee.

That said, I looked at the original board closer (meaning printing they layout and measuring it with a set of dial calipers) and it is about 1.6" x 3.3" (could someone who has made this project please verify these dimensions?), which brings it to 13.20 dollars for the board. Splitting the shipping and setup fee, we're looking at about 15 bucks a board. Turn around time is about 3 weeks per their website, and varies based on how full their order is. If this is an option that the group would like to do, I can manage it.

-Elepro-, if the group would like to go with a professional board, would you be willing to share your Eagle files with me?

I'm in. I would prefer to skip on the terminals, and I don't have a preference regarding any of the other options presented so far.

[spy]

Originally Posted by RedHouse

Vote for one of the following:
USPS Parcel Post (slow but cheap, likely under $3)
USPS Priority Post (2 day deliver, but $4.95)

(just checked USPS website- Priority is now $4.95)

Brad, can you check the shipping cost for the non US members?

[Bruce Johnson]

Yep, I'm still in.

I'd just add up the parts cost, and add about $12 to cover shipping in the US plus PayPal financial fees. I don't think most of us are going to bicker about a couple of bucks (are we?). I certainly appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting in to get this kit together. You're allowing me to acquire a useful piece of equipment for a bargain price.

[-Elepro-]

Originally Posted by defaced

Did I offend you in some way? The tone of your reply and your assumptions regarding my volunteering indicate to me that I stepped on your toes, which was not my intent. I know how little I like making and drilling PCBs, and from the discussion in the Gaussmeter thread, I figured I'd post up this option because to me it seems pretty cost effective, especially once you split up the setup fee.

That said, I looked at the original board closer (meaning printing they layout and measuring it with a set of dial calipers) and it is about 1.6" x 3.3" (could someone who has made this project please verify these dimensions?), which brings it to 13.20 dollars for the board. Splitting the shipping and setup fee, we're looking at about 15 bucks a board. Turn around time is about 3 weeks per their website, and varies based on how full their order is. If this is an option that the group would like to do, I can manage it.

-Elepro-, if the group would like to go with a professional board, would you be willing to share your Eagle files with me?

I'm in. I would prefer to skip on the terminals, and I don't have a preference regarding any of the other options presented so far.

ciao,

eagle file is already in the first page of this thread.....

.... i have some problems with my english and probably i did not undestand anything.... but..... would you like a professional pcb for 9$??

[Arndawg56]

Originally Posted by -Elepro-

ciao,

eagle file is already in the first page of this thread.....

.... i have some problems with my english and probably i did not undestand anything.... but..... would you like a professional pcb for 9$??

Elepro, do you have the professional PCB's, available now, for $9.00?

[-Elepro-]

Originally Posted by Arndawg56

Elepro, do you have the professional PCB's, available now, for $9.00?

yes click here

... really i do not understand why an expensive solution instead of another inexpensive (with same final result) ..... but excuse me i'm not in your discussion....

[automan]

Kit w/o terminals and USPS Parcel Post sounds great to me.

[Arndawg56]

Originally Posted by -Elepro-

yes click here

... really i do not understand why an expensive solution instead of another inexpensive (with same final result) ..... but excuse me i'm not in your discussion....

I agree 110 percent.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by defaced

That said, I looked at the original board closer (meaning printing they layout and measuring it with a set of dial calipers) and it is about 1.6" x 3.3" (could someone who has made this project please verify these dimensions?), which brings it to 13.20 dollars for the board. Splitting the shipping and setup fee, we're looking at about 15 bucks a board. Turn around time is about 3 weeks per their website, and varies based on how full their order is. If this is an option that the group would like to do, I can manage it.

Would it make sense to gang them up on one board? Would it be cheaper?

That's $6 more than if Brad makes them.

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by defaced

Did I offend you in some way? The tone of your reply and your assumptions regarding my volunteering indicate to me that I stepped on your toes, which was not my intent. I know how little I like making and drilling PCBs, and from the discussion in the Gaussmeter thread, I figured I'd post up this option because to me it seems pretty cost effective, especially once you split up the setup fee.....

No offence taken, sorry if my post reads that way. I didn't realize I had a tone.
(anyone know how come it's so easy to have "tone" in writing, but so much hard work to find "tone" in building Amps/Effects/pickups)

When I saw your post I thought you were offering to do something, I didn't realise you were offering for me to do something more.

I volunteered to do the legwork, source and distribute the parts, and throw in a PCB for next to nothing. Please don't think I'm being some kind of grinch about it, but I make my own PCB's (*) for my business and clients so I'm sure you understand if I wouldn't be buying from your PCB house.

So, you're not offering to set it up then?

*except in the case of those A/DA flanger boards that Moosapotamous (CharlieB) did, I just had to pay for one of those, it was sweet.

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

Would it make sense to gang them up on one board? Would it be cheaper?

That's $6 more than if Brad makes them.

David, when a PCB house makes them, they (usually) do gang them up on a sheet. There are two PCB houses in Redmond very near me. They get 4'x8' sheets of copper clad FR4 material, cut it in half and make a 4x4 chunk at a time, then they get cleaned, drilled, masked, and silk screened.

My operation is downscaled, if you look at my website you can see that I made those mic preamp boards in smaller batches of like 13 at a time. This is what I was thinking when I volunteered to make PCB's for this project.

Anyway, it doesn't matter with me either way but I just don't think I should have to head-up the arrangements when I have in-house PCB's available. I won't be using the outsourced PCB's myself, is that unreasonable?

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by -Elepro-

yes click here

... really i do not understand why an expensive solution instead of another inexpensive (with same final result) ..... but excuse me i'm not in your discussion....

Dang, I just snorted my G&T out my nose after reading that! wow that feels funky.

[John_H]

Brad this is real cool what you're doing here. You can count me in.

USPS either way is fine with me. The display that is decided on I'm sure will be ok. No terminals.

I'm going out of town tomorrow morning, and probably won't be back until Monday. So don't worry If you get no response from me on an IM or whatever. I'll be out of touch. I hope I don't miss your Last call deadline, because I'd really like to participate. Thanks, John

[Bruce Johnson]

On both voting topics, either one is fine with me. I really don't care whether the price is $73 or $88.

Let's make it happen.

[defaced]

David,
The price is per actual sq/in, meaning there is no rounding up to the nearest whole square inch. So our board at 1.6" * 3.3" = 5.28 sq/in, which at $2.50 sq/in = $13.20. From my reading of their FAQ, they gang up each order's boards, and send off a composite order for manufacturer, which is one of the reasons for the lower cost compared to other places.

Originally Posted by RedHouse

No offence taken, sorry if my post reads that way. I didn't realize I had a tone.
(anyone know how come it's so easy to have "tone" in writing, but so much hard work to find "tone" in building Amps/Effects/pickups)

When I saw your post I thought you were offering to do something, I didn't realise you were offering for me to do something more.

I volunteered to do the legwork, source and distribute the parts, and throw in a PCB for next to nothing. Please don't think I'm being some kind of grinch about it, but I make my own PCB's (*) for my business and clients so I'm sure you understand if I wouldn't be buying from your PCB house.

So, you're not offering to set it up then?

*except in the case of that A/DA flanger boards that Moosapotamous (CharlieB) did, I just had to pay for one of those, it was sweet.

In my initial post regarding Batch PCB, I was offering an option for discussion based on your post here (Gaussmeter project), the person to do the work is irrelevant, and in reality, is very little work: export mfg files from Elepro's layout file, zip them up, and upload them to the site. In total, that's maybe 1 hour for the whole process if you've never done it before and the design doesn't need tweaked. However, in my reply, I did offer to manage the boards if there is interest, which thus far there isn't, so the whole discussion is becoming more moot as we go on.

Personally from my own experience on DIY boards that I've made, I don't like assembling them. Solder wets like crap on bare copper traces unless you cover them with flux, which is sticky and gets everywhere. Unmasked boards have a tendency to bridge traces and require covering the copper to keep is from oxidizing. And, boards without silk screen keep me looking at the schem and board layout pages. To me, a 6 dollar increase, which is less than the connectors we've been voting on and about 10% of the total cost of the project, is worth not having to mess with those nuisances of DIY boards. Not to say you don't make a damn good board, which from your pictures you do, just that I have developed some preferences as I have tried different things and am willing to pay more in some areas as compared to others.

Again, I don't care which way the group goes. I have nothing to gain or lose from this so vote away.

[RedHouse]

Ok here is the most current Who's In List:


13 Definate Participants:
Redhouse
David Schwab
JasonG
spy
firewire
Bruce Johnson
Arndawg56
LtKojak
mkat
automan
Dave Kerr
John H
defaced

So far the majority agrees to:

1.) w/o terminals
2.) domestic (USA) shipping to be USPS Priority 2nd day at $4.95
3.) International additional shipping for LtKojak and Spy is TBD by PM/email
4.) LCD is the one with the white backlight that looks like a cell phone screen
(makes life easier for those of us who wear glasses)
5.) PCB by me



Next Steps:

IMHO we should wait until July 11th (this comming Saturday) to do the "Last Call", please chime-in here if you believe otherwise.

Please review the list of participants, if you are in and I missed your name on the list please make more noise or PM me so I can get you on the list. I certainly would not intentionally leave anyone out so help me here if you catch me missing you.

Saturday July 11th 2009 we should do the Last Call which means folks should start transfering their funds which is the final commitment.

The Last Call should extend at least a week to allow time for everyone who is participating to get onboard and get their fundage transferred. We can bump that out if the group needs it to be.

At this time I will post the Paypal address and PM/email the my street address to those who wish to pay through USPS Money Order.
(I prefer my street address not be here in the forum thread's text to be searchable/exploitable by web-bots)

Saturday July 18th 2009 we will review the fundage, who's paid who's not and make sure everyone is in who wants to be in.

At this point we will "close" the group-buy. At this time I will place both the Mouser and Elepro orders and transfer the groups funds to Mouser and Elepro.

Mouser usually ships UPS and usually takes about 5-7 days to deliver to me.

I have no ETA on the shipping time from Elepro but it may take a week or two as he is in Italy.

When Parts Arrive:
I will post updates here in this thread as parts arrive to me, and when all are here I will bag and ship everyone's parts, and post here when your package gets shipped so you all know exactly what's going on.

David Schwab brings up a good point (doesn't he always?) regarding whether the probe should use terminals. While I too have contemplated that aspect I intend to wait until I get my parts and work out the enclosure details to see if it needs to be removable or not, and if the terminals Elepro suggested are what I want to use. I may opt for a different kind of panel mounted terminal connector to make my probe removable possibly that small USB connector that many cameras use, but I can't know until I get the unit working and see how things go as far as usability.

It's really not a big deal because the choice we make here is not a permanent choice it's just to keep the intial buy-in costs down for the group as a whole.

If we opt-out on terminals and anyone changes their mind later just keep in mind that all the Mouser part numbers are right here in this thread and so you can easily place an order at Mouser and pick up the terminals after the group-buy if you change your mind.

Have I missed anything?

BTW: if we get just 2 more people in on this we can get the next price break from Elepro, his offer was at 10+ (22-euro/$30.66-USD) and if we get 15+ into the group-buy we can get 20-euro/$27.87-USD

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by defaced

...Personally from my own experience on DIY boards that I've made, I don't like assembling them. Solder wets like crap on bare copper traces unless you cover them with flux, which is sticky and gets everywhere. Unmasked boards have a tendency to bridge traces and require covering the copper to keep is from oxidizing. And, boards without silk screen keep me looking at the schem and board layout pages. To me, a 6 dollar increase, which is less than the connectors we've been voting on and about 10% of the total cost of the project, is worth not having to mess with those nuisances of DIY boards...

Well ok then, in your case, because you have all those issues with boards that are not masked and silk screened, and I feel sorry for ya, I will load your parts onto your board for you to keep you from all the distress you might encounter with my product, it's an offer for you only since your list is long.

PS: if you feel the $6 difference is ok, you can certainly throw that $6 my way for loading your board.
(you are not obliged, it's just a suggestion )

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by RedHouse

I've noticed since the original post of this thread, when I asked if any of the members who already have a commercial meter would participate in helping validate the DIY meter we are doing in this group-buy, we haven't had any takers. (no posts or PM's)

A search of the forum threads which mention gauss meters comes up with a list of 6 members who have said they own commercial gauss meters, it's hard to believe none are willing to help out validating this effort.

I live in the Seattle area (Sammamish, Wa) and understand that both Wolfe M. and Jason L live in the area, I'll try to contact them and see if either has a commercial gauss meter and may be willing to assist.

Good News!

Wolfe Marshall has agreed to help out with validating our gauss meter against his. Once we have our parts and I put together my meter I can meet with him then post the results here in this thread.

THANKS WOLFE

We should be able to determine if these meters are right-on, close, or at the very least determine what offset or calibration may be needed to align them close enough.

I'm thinking we should cross-test them with most-likely target magnets and target gauss ranges, A5 rods and A2/A5 HB mags for sure.

Although it's not mandatory to know exatly where they stand as most of us will be using them for relative measurements, it will be very cool to see how they compare.

What strengths (gauss) would you all say would be most useful to us to check the meter at?

[mkat]

All good on my end. I'm happy with or without the terminals unless there's a good case to go with.

[defaced]

Originally Posted by RedHouse

Well ok then, in your case, because you have all those issues with boards that are not masked and silk screened, and I feel sorry for ya, I will load your parts onto your board for you to keep you from all the distress you might encounter with my product, it's an offer for you only since your list is long.

PS: if you feel the $6 difference is ok, you can certainly throw that $6 my way for loading your board.
(you are not obliged, it's just a suggestion )

Thanks, but no thanks. After all, this is a group buy and not ala-carte, and loading my board certainly wouldn't be fair for the group.

[RedHouse]

Originally Posted by defaced

Thanks, but no thanks. After all, this is a group buy and not ala-carte, and loading my board certainly wouldn't be fair for the group.

Ok then, but if you change your mind just let me know.

[StarryNight]

can I ask is this project easy or difficult to assemble? I'm a novice at these things (but not incapable). If there are no guidelines to put it together perhaps I should pass.

[-Elepro-]

watch the thread in my signature.....
and if you have question ask me...

bye

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

On both voting topics, either one is fine with me. I really don't care whether the price is $73 or $88.

Let's make it happen.

+ 1 . If Redhouse thinks the terminals are a good thing, I'll go with'em. I trust his judgement in the best interest of the project and for all participants.

[-Elepro-]

i think that connector for probe could be better.... in the future if you want can have two probe: one with a1302 for alnico ceramic etc... and another one with ad22151 for neodimium and other stong magnet....

[StarryNight]

OK, I'm in as well. I figure if i can save money on a gauss meter and learn something at the same time then what the hell. I'm in Canada so I'll probably need a quote for shipping. Thanks...

[spy]

This is great! We are very close for the next price break from Elepro. We need one more!

[Bruce Johnson]

Now, if some of us were sly enterprising types, we could order several kits. Then we could build them up and sell them as functioning units, or hoard them and sell them for a higher price to late-comers. Just a suggestion.....

I'm tempted, but I'm swamped with projects right now.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

Now, if some of us were sly enterprising types, we could order several kits. Then we could build them up and sell them as functioning units, or hoard them and sell them for a higher price to late-comers. Just a suggestion.....

I'm tempted, but I'm swamped with projects right now.

That's not a bad idea... I'd do it if I had the funds...