'73 LP Custom neck pup - low's are muddy when pushed

[docblues]

Hi All- I'm not electronically savvy, so I need some input, please. I have a 1973 LP Custom. I recently took it in to a local top guitar maker/repair shop to help with frets, tuning problems, etc. I also asked him about my neck pickup - which sounds muddy/flabby in the lower registers when using distortion (either a pedal or pushed amp - I use Fender deluxe and twin reverbs). My bridge pup sounds great. He tested the pups. My bridge came in at just over 8k ohms, but the neck was something like 13-17k (I don't remember). He said the neck pup was way overwound and that is my problem. I don't know what kind of pups these are. Someone suggested they must be T tops, but I thought they were all around upper 7k to low 8k. He recommended switching out to SD '59s.

I am the original owner. These are the pups that came with the guitar. How could this be? Should I change out the pups or is there something else I should be looking at?

This guitar guy is highly respected in the industry, but I would like other informed opinions. Thanks so much.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by docblues

My bridge came in at just over 8k ohms, but the neck was something like 13-17k (I don't remember)....

I am the original owner. These are the pups that came with the guitar. How could this be? Should I change out the pups or is there something else I should be looking at?

It's possible the pickup has developed a fault. It might be a short or an open circuit.

Since it's a vintage guitar, you should look into having the pickup rewound or otherwise repaired.

[docblues]

Thanks David. I will give that a shot. Do you happen to have any pickup wizards you would reccomend in the Los Angeles area?

[Sweetfinger]

You say you are the original owner as in "bought brand new with a warranty"? If you still have your original receipt, you may still be covered under warranty. I'm not sure at what point Gibson stopped doing true "lifetime" warranties. Maybe call Gibson and find out. In '73 Gibson was starting to make hotter "Super Humbuckers", but I'm not sure why the neck would have a SUBSTANTIALLY hotter wind. The only way that a standard T-top would be shorted or open and read between 10 and 20 K is if there was an error in taking the reading. I'd want to have a look at the pickups and harness. I'm not sure why your guitar guy would recommend a "set" of '59's when you're only issue is with the neck pickup. If you'd like to keep the guitar as it sits but clean up the low end on the neck pickup, you can add a coupling cap which will act as a low frequency filter. I wouldn't recommend rewinding the neck pickup unless it is actually defective.

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by docblues

Hi All- I'm not electronically savvy, so I need some input, please. I have a 1973 LP Custom. I recently took it in to a local top guitar maker/repair shop to help with frets, tuning problems, etc. I also asked him about my neck pickup - which sounds muddy/flabby in the lower registers when using distortion (either a pedal or pushed amp - I use Fender deluxe and twin reverbs). My bridge pup sounds great. He tested the pups. My bridge came in at just over 8k ohms, but the neck was something like 13-17k (I don't remember). He said the neck pup was way overwound and that is my problem. I don't know what kind of pups these are. Someone suggested they must be T tops, but I thought they were all around upper 7k to low 8k. He recommended switching out to SD '59s.

I am the original owner. These are the pups that came with the guitar. How could this be? Should I change out the pups or is there something else I should be looking at?

This guitar guy is highly respected in the industry, but I would like other informed opinions. Thanks so much.

The p'ups you've got are the infamous 490R-498T.

They measure: 490R 'bout 7.8-8.2K - 498T 'bout 13.5-14.0K.

You've got the right p'ups in the wrong spots. The neck p'up is in the bridge and viceversa.

If the guitar guy REALLY did what you said, I wouldn't respect him anymore; I wouldn't even let him touch my guitar!

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by LtKojak

The p'ups you've got are the infamous 490R-498T.

They measure: 490R 'bout 7.8-8.2K - 498T 'bout 13.5-14.0K.

They made those in 1973??? I thought they came out in the 80's.

[Sweetfinger]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

They made those in 1973??? I thought they came out in the 80's.

You are correct, sir! No way those pickups are 490/498 unless you've been riding in a Delorean with a flux capacitor!

[jrfrond]

The first thing that occurred to me is that the pickup positions are reversed. Hopefully, you have enough cable loop to reverse them. However, IF you like your bridge pickup as-is, the sound WILL change when you reverse them, so you MIGHT want to think of a replacement for the neck pickup whose DC Resistance is around the 7-8K or lower.

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

They made those in 1973??? I thought they came out in the 80's.

I didn't imply that the p'ups were the originals. Obviously that guitar had the p'ups swaped, most probably without the owner's knowledge. And the one who did it didn't have any idea either, that's why the p'ups were soldered the other way 'round. We can't know it without actually looking at the pots to see if there's any tampering evidence.

Sounds like I read too many conspiracy theory pamphlets, uh? Maybe, but I've seen this kind of thing done 'round here in Italy for over ten years now, specially with Gibson instruments.

[1big1]

hello all,

i'm new to the board.. but i have a '73 sg standard with supers so i thought i'd chime in for my first post. took readings on my pups and here's what i got.
neck.. 7.49k ohms.. bridge 5.14k ohms.
i know these pups are stock because i bought this axe new in '73 and have been the only owner.
hope that helps.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by LtKojak

I didn't imply that the p'ups were the originals. Obviously that guitar had the p'ups swaped, most probably without the owner's knowledge.

He said he is the original owner.

[the great waldo]

Hi Docblues

Changing the front pickup for something like a sd59 or something similar like one of the gibson pafs not to strong would not be a bad idea, having a pickup with such a hi resistance is going to sound like mud, leave the bridge pickup alone if you like the sound.

Good luck

ANDREW

[the great waldo]

Hi all

It is possible that the pickups were misinstalled at the factory, I have worked on a left hand les paul custom that had side dots on both sides of the fingerboard, and that was in the mid 80´s

CHEERS

Andrew

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by the great waldo

Hi all

It is possible that the pickups were misinstalled at the factory, I have worked on a left hand les paul custom that had side dots on both sides of the fingerboard, and that was in the mid 80´s

CHEERS

Andrew

It's possible... the dots are because they used a right handed neck... like the Way Rickenbacker does.

They would probably sound better if you swapped the neck with the bridge.

[Jag]

I think there are several possibilities;

1) The neck pickup was simply overwound by a factory tech with a hangover or some such distraction.

2) Mis-installation as mentioned. Although even for a Gibson bridge pickup of that vintage I'd still think it overwound.

3) Even though you are the original owner, the pickups could have been swapped out by an unscrupulous repair person. Have you ever had the guitar in the shop for any extended period? This is and always has been a fairly common situation. In the '80's, I had a repair guy do this to a vintage Strat. Of course I noticed the difference in tone right away and confronted the tech. The tech actually tried to claim that he had done a free upgrade!

I agree with the suggestions made here for resolving the issue. They are all valid. If it were my guitar, I'd leave the bridge alone and have a good quality PAF style installed in the neck. I'd have the tech check for evidence of past tampering although it might not be obvious.

I'm not really sure why LtKojak thinks your tech should not be trusted, it sounds to me like he made the right rec.

[Guitarist]

DocBlues, I'd suggest swapping out the neck pickup for another with a vintage low-wind of about 4 to 6 K Ohms. This may seem low bu you'll be surprised by how loud they are still. Nearly any brand will sound MUCH better than that current one. If you have another electric, drop the bad boy into the bridge position.

BTW, I went through the same thing a couple months ago, but the neck pickup was only 11K. I found a used Fender humbucker (don't laugh) and it sounds awesome and plays well with a SD George Lynch of around 10K Ohms. A single coil tap works great for clean blues too.

If you love your Gibson's current humbucker then work to get a great match for it. Call the Gibson factory even!

I just looked at the SD and Gibson sites but can't find one that modest.

BTW, you can measure you pickup by putting any old meter (on ohms) across the guitar cable with your guitar knobs on 10. Switch you LP to whichever PUP you want to measure. You can compare other guitars too and get an idea of how Overwound vs Vintage sounds and feels.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by Guitarist

I found a used Fender humbucker (don't laugh) and it sounds awesome and plays well with a SD George Lynch of around 10K Ohms.

I've got a bunch of those Fender humbuckers. I acquired them when people upgraded their pickups.

I have one in my Charvel at the bridge, and it sounds pretty good, if not a little barky.