Strange pickup problem

Triad · 09-07-2009, 08:21 PM

Hello! I'm new into pickup making, hope you (experienced) guys will can shed light on this story...
I've built an humbucker and wired it in series with volume and tone pots (1M).

Series wiring should be the HOT of one bobin with the GROUND of the other one wired together, the other HOT on the + of the volume pot and the GROUND on the back of the pot. Well. It works but sounds a bit thin and is a bit noisy while, if I solder the HOT/GROUND wires for the series wiring on the back of the pot the hum goes down and the output goes up A LOT.
I've built the pickup with 2 single coils wound with 10mm alnico poles... one is South up and one is North up for hum cancelling. The controls routing is shielded with conductive varnish. Any idea? Thanx in advance!

Zhangliqun · 09-07-2009, 08:55 PM

It's not about linking "hot" of one bobbin to "ground" of another. How do you know which is hot or ground until they're in the circuit?

It should be about linking either start lead to start lead or finish lead to finish lead. Most makers do finish-to-finish, I'm a "maverick" in that I link start to start, but it works either way.

Triad · 09-07-2009, 11:42 PM

"Hot" is the start (white wire) and "Ground" is the end (black wire).

David Schwab · 09-08-2009, 12:59 AM

Your coils are out of phase.

The way to wire a humbucker is start to start, or finish to finish. So it's the "hot" of one coils to the "hot" on the other, not the ground!

The reason for this is each coil has the opposite magnetic polarity, so they are magnetically out of phase. So you have to wire them electrically out of phase to restore the phase of the coils, and then to cancel hum.

Triad · 09-08-2009, 02:08 AM

Uhm... thanx for your reply, I'll check and get back in a few hours

Zhangliqun · 09-08-2009, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Schwab

Your coils are out of phase.

The way to wire a humbucker is start to start, or finish to finish. So it's the "hot" of one coils to the "hot" on the other, not the ground!

Yeah, what he said!

Peter Naglitsch · 09-08-2009, 07:28 AM

One othr way to describe it (thanks goes out to Lollar) is "path to ground". If you ground the start wire from coil 1 you should have the end wire of coil 2 grounded trough coil 1. That way you have reversed the electric polarity of the two coils. Does that makes any sense? Probably not. Get Lollars book. He describes it better...

Has he released it as a E-book as he mentioned he would?

Triad · 09-08-2009, 10:41 AM

I've seen on all the wiring scheme that series wiring has to be made with the end of one coil into the start of the other one...

Mike Sulzer · 09-08-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

I've seen on all the wiring scheme that series wiring has to be made with the end of one coil into the start of the other one...

Only if the coils are wound in the opposite direction.

David Schwab · 09-08-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

I've seen on all the wiring scheme that series wiring has to be made with the end of one coil into the start of the other one...

Not according to this:

Seymour Duncan Wiring Diagram

Notice the finish ends are connected to the finish ends of the coils for the series connection.

I had that same problem the first time I wired up a humbucker... 36 years ago. Just try swapping the wires and see what you get.

Triad · 09-08-2009, 11:36 PM

Exactly! The friend who gave me the winder told me the same thing... and you're both right

but my soldering iron was dead, I'll make a new connection tomorrow and will let you know

Triad · 09-12-2009, 11:02 AM

Thanx guys! After speaking to a friend by the phone (he made pickups too) I realized I didn't swap the second bobin's wires color so I basically had to connect black with black to have series and humcancelling

Fixed this and the bass sounded extremely good... thank you!

guitarsorguk · 09-13-2009, 01:17 PM

Hello

I made my first humbcker yesterday.

I wound the two coils in opposite directions, I used six 5 mm alnico magnets in each, one set north facing, one set south facing. I thought i had connected one end wire to the other coils start wire.
Results thin, weedy, no bass, out of phase and sounding like poo. (just what i wanted, not! ha!)

I swopped wires start to start and it resulted in a good strong signal.
Now i may have got it wrong with the wires as when i was ptting it together i snapped an other wire which i used 'fudged' to be a new end wire rather than trying to splice it back together.

Now i'm a bit lost, i have read the above a few times and please exuse me as i can be a bit slow at digesting things at times. (so i'm told!).

To make matters worse i took apart in the 'pursuit of knowledge' a cheap yamaha pickup, this had both END wires connected and both coils wound the same - clockwise.

1. Is the yamaha the 'right' way to do it, (ok, i know there is no right, just different).

2. If i did want to wire opposite directions, what do i connect the start of one to?

3. How do you (dear reader) do it? wind direction and connecting.

Thanks for any help, John

Bye the way very pleased with pickup, it sounds great, 12.5k plus i can switch it to single coil mode. Learned a lot from the forum, just foxed on the direction/connection business.

Peter Naglitsch · 09-13-2009, 03:18 PM

If you wind the coils in the same direction, connect the end of one coil to the end of the other (or start to start...). If you wind them in different direction you connect the end of one coil to the start of the other. That way the coils will be electrically out of phase. If you have two coils electrically out of phase and magnetically in phase the result will be as you first experience. The same thin happens if you have then electrically in phase and magnetically out of phase. The two coils need to be both magnetically and electrically out of phase. Kind of when minus 1 minus minus one makes minus two. The subject have been discussed a few time and there are better explanations if you do a search

David Schwab · 09-13-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarsorguk

Hello

I made my first humbcker yesterday.

I wound the two coils in opposite directions...

Most humbuckers are wound in the same direction. There's no real reason to wind in opposite directions, and it's more bother than it's worth IMO.

But do like Peter said. If you wind in opposite directions, wire the coils start to finish, or finish to start.

guitarsorguk · 09-13-2009, 03:52 PM

Thank you david, i'm clear now.

Will create the next humbucker both the same direction. I have a couple of rewinds to do as well, just been waiting to get the right info before i make a start.

09-07-2009, 08:21 PM	#1
Triad Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25 Member's Picture Albums	Strange pickup problem Hello! I'm new into pickup making, hope you (experienced) guys will can shed light on this story... I've built an humbucker and wired it in series with volume and tone pots (1M). Series wiring should be the HOT of one bobin with the GROUND of the other one wired together, the other HOT on the + of the volume pot and the GROUND on the back of the pot. Well. It works but sounds a bit thin and is a bit noisy while, if I solder the HOT/GROUND wires for the series wiring on the back of the pot the hum goes down and the output goes up A LOT. I've built the pickup with 2 single coils wound with 10mm alnico poles... one is South up and one is North up for hum cancelling. The controls routing is shielded with conductive varnish. Any idea? Thanx in advance!

09-08-2009, 12:59 AM	#4
David Schwab Pickup Maker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 5,587	Your coils are out of phase. The way to wire a humbucker is start to start, or finish to finish. So it's the "hot" of one coils to the "hot" on the other, not the ground! The reason for this is each coil has the opposite magnetic polarity, so they are magnetically out of phase. So you have to wire them electrically out of phase to restore the phase of the coils, and then to cancel hum. __________________ Those who create are rare; those who cannot are numerous. Therefore, the latter are stronger. - Coco Chanel www.sgd-lutherie.com www.myspace.com/sgdlutherie www.myspace.com/davidschwab

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09-07-2009, 08:55 PM	#2
Zhangliqun Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 585	It's not about linking "hot" of one bobbin to "ground" of another. How do you know which is hot or ground until they're in the circuit? It should be about linking either start lead to start lead or finish lead to finish lead. Most makers do finish-to-finish, I'm a "maverick" in that I link start to start, but it works either way.

09-07-2009, 11:42 PM	#3
Triad Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25 Member's Picture Albums	"Hot" is the start (white wire) and "Ground" is the end (black wire).

09-08-2009, 02:08 AM	#5
Triad Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25 Member's Picture Albums	Uhm... thanx for your reply, I'll check and get back in a few hours

09-08-2009, 07:28 AM	#7
Peter Naglitsch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Europe, Terra Nostra Posts: 327	One othr way to describe it (thanks goes out to Lollar) is "path to ground". If you ground the start wire from coil 1 you should have the end wire of coil 2 grounded trough coil 1. That way you have reversed the electric polarity of the two coils. Does that makes any sense? Probably not. Get Lollars book. He describes it better... Has he released it as a E-book as he mentioned he would?

09-08-2009, 10:41 AM	#8
Triad Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25 Member's Picture Albums	I've seen on all the wiring scheme that series wiring has to be made with the end of one coil into the start of the other one...

09-08-2009, 11:36 PM	#11
Triad Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25 Member's Picture Albums	Exactly! The friend who gave me the winder told me the same thing... and you're both right but my soldering iron was dead, I'll make a new connection tomorrow and will let you know

09-12-2009, 11:02 AM	#12
Triad Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 25 Member's Picture Albums	Thanx guys! After speaking to a friend by the phone (he made pickups too) I realized I didn't swap the second bobin's wires color so I basically had to connect black with black to have series and humcancelling Fixed this and the bass sounded extremely good... thank you!

09-13-2009, 01:17 PM	#13
guitarsorguk Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 7	Hello I made my first humbcker yesterday. I wound the two coils in opposite directions, I used six 5 mm alnico magnets in each, one set north facing, one set south facing. I thought i had connected one end wire to the other coils start wire. Results thin, weedy, no bass, out of phase and sounding like poo. (just what i wanted, not! ha!) I swopped wires start to start and it resulted in a good strong signal. Now i may have got it wrong with the wires as when i was ptting it together i snapped an other wire which i used 'fudged' to be a new end wire rather than trying to splice it back together. Now i'm a bit lost, i have read the above a few times and please exuse me as i can be a bit slow at digesting things at times. (so i'm told!). To make matters worse i took apart in the 'pursuit of knowledge' a cheap yamaha pickup, this had both END wires connected and both coils wound the same - clockwise. 1. Is the yamaha the 'right' way to do it, (ok, i know there is no right, just different). 2. If i did want to wire opposite directions, what do i connect the start of one to? 3. How do you (dear reader) do it? wind direction and connecting. Thanks for any help, John Bye the way very pleased with pickup, it sounds great, 12.5k plus i can switch it to single coil mode. Learned a lot from the forum, just foxed on the direction/connection business.

09-13-2009, 03:18 PM	#14
Peter Naglitsch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Europe, Terra Nostra Posts: 327	If you wind the coils in the same direction, connect the end of one coil to the end of the other (or start to start...). If you wind them in different direction you connect the end of one coil to the start of the other. That way the coils will be electrically out of phase. If you have two coils electrically out of phase and magnetically in phase the result will be as you first experience. The same thin happens if you have then electrically in phase and magnetically out of phase. The two coils need to be both magnetically and electrically out of phase. Kind of when minus 1 minus minus one makes minus two. The subject have been discussed a few time and there are better explanations if you do a search

09-13-2009, 03:52 PM	#16
guitarsorguk Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 7	Thank you david, i'm clear now. Will create the next humbucker both the same direction. I have a couple of rewinds to do as well, just been waiting to get the right info before i make a start.

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