Where to buy soft iron in europe

[the great waldo]

Hi

Does anybody on the forum know where to get soft iron in rods or bar form in Europe. I was thinking of trying to make some pickup parts using soft iron as opposed to mild steel which apears to have more carbon in it.

Cheers

Andrew

[clown_luthier]

i'm also interested in 3/16" rods and 1/8" thick sheets

[David King]

Try to locate a mill that still makes wrought iron. Mostly what you see is hot rolled steel now but that's potentially better than 1018. Wrought iron has special properties that make it very resistant to rust compared to steel. It's nearly pure iron but has gone out of fashion. One potential source for the round slugs is malleable iron rivets aka "bridge rivets".

[the great waldo]

Hello David

Here in Austria there is no shortage of wrought iron, as it´s still used on a lot of door fittings period furniture and garden metal work. I was just wondering as I have seen a schools equipment supplier offering soft iron (plated) for magnetic experimentation if there is a difference between wrought iron, soft iron or mild steel.

Cheers
Andrew

[David King]

Andrew,
I'm sure there are differences however you may find that they all sound alike or that some are better than others in your application. "Electrical iron" is what is used in transformers, speaker drivers and solenoid cores. We are surrounded with it and junk yards are full of it but you need to be able to turn that stuff into something you can use in a pickup. I think for bars it would be possible to disassemble transformers and cut the stacks up into shapes you can use but not useful for production until you try first. Then buy the shape you need from a transformer factory or their supplier. How many thousands of pickups can you make?

[defaced]

Try to locate a mill that still makes wrought iron.

If by "wrought" you mean pure iron, then yes, it's still made. One vendor I know of is AK Steel, they manufacture a product called "Armco Iron". Their site says they produce "wire rod and bright drawn wire", so you might be able to find something suitable.

I was just wondering as I have seen a schools equipment supplier offering soft iron (plated) for magnetic experimentation if there is a difference between wrought iron, soft iron or mild steel.

Yes there is a difference, and it may be significant in any given application because the microstructure/chemical composition is very different between pure iron and common mild steels, but those terms are basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things without some real designator. Like if you say ASTM A36, that's a very common mild structural steel (similar to AISI 1018). Comparing that to Armco Iron you will see there is a big difference in properties that may effect what you're trying to do. So it's an "it depends" sort of answer, you really have to be more specific to get a meaningful answer.

KEY to METALS Articles: Structure of plain steel

[belwar]

Originally Posted by the great waldo

Hi

Does anybody on the forum know where to get soft iron in rods or bar form in Europe. I was thinking of trying to make some pickup parts using soft iron as opposed to mild steel which apears to have more carbon in it.

Cheers

Andrew

Soft Iron is Mild Steel. It was a term used in the 1950's (and probably 30's and 40's) to denote standard low carbon steels. There is no standard for Soft Iron. So basically 1010, 1018, 1022, 1215, etc are all soft iron.

bel.

[Joe Gwinn]

Originally Posted by belwar

Soft Iron is Mild Steel. It was a term used in the 1950's (and probably 30's and 40's) to denote standard low carbon steels. There is no standard for Soft Iron. So basically 1010, 1018, 1022, 1215, etc are all soft iron.

While the nomenclature is imprecise, what I think people are asking for by "soft iron" is electrical iron, which is somewhere between 1002 and 1005 alloy, optimized for magnetic properties, versus mechanical properties.

[belwar]

Fair enough!

Im making the assumption that the person is looking for soft iron based on the Seth Lover quote that they (Gibson) used it. No PAF part was make with that low carbon.

bel

[the great waldo]

Originally Posted by belwar

Fair enough!

Im making the assumption that the person is looking for soft iron based on the Seth Lover quote that they (Gibson) used it. No PAF part was make with that low carbon.

bel

Hi Belwar

I was´nt particularily looking for anything recommended by Seth Lover or paf specific, I was just wondering if using soft iron parts in the magnetic circuit would improve anything in the pickup (the tone?)

Cheers

Andrew

[peskywinnets]

Here's a UK company advertising itself as the sole world supplier of genuine wrought iron...

Realwroughtironco : Products Available

It sells round bar, flat bar & sheet.... I bet it ain't cheap though!

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by the great waldo

Hi Belwar

I was´nt particularily looking for anything recommended by Seth Lover or paf specific, I was just wondering if using soft iron parts in the magnetic circuit would improve anything in the pickup (the tone?)

Cheers

Andrew

Like Belwar said, you want something like 1010 or 1018 (or lower carbon as Joe noted) mild steel. That's what was meant by "soft iron".

You will hear a difference in tone with the different alloys.

[David King]

Well the Peskywinnit's link is a whole lot more relevant here is it's more or less located in Europe and it probably allows the purchase of less than a 1 ton spool of wire or band. They might even send out samples.
I've done some preliminary tests of 1008, malleable iron rivets, 1018, music wire and O1 tool steel and I can't hear a difference. Everyone else I've talked to says it makes a huge difference but I can't hear it. My one engineering buddy swears that it won't make the slightest difference either, tells me to worry about my magnets instead.

[the great waldo]

Originally Posted by David King

Well the Peskywinnit's link is a whole lot more relevant here is it's more or less located in Europe and it probably allows the purchase of less than a 1 ton spool of wire or band. They might even send out samples.
I've done some preliminary tests of 1008, malleable iron rivets, 1018, music wire and O1 tool steel and I can't hear a difference. Everyone else I've talked to says it makes a huge difference but I can't hear it. My one engineering buddy swears that it won't make the slightest difference either, tells me to worry about my magnets instead.

Hi David

I´ll go with your ears, and save myself some aggravation, I was never any good at hearing grass growing. By the way Robert Cray killer player and singer, and i´ll bet he does´nt worry about single or double enamel formvar.

Cheers

Andrew

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by David King

I've done some preliminary tests of 1008, malleable iron rivets, 1018, music wire and O1 tool steel and I can't hear a difference.

Really? It might be the amount you are using. I've used 1008, 1010, 1018, 430 Stainless, and O1, and they sound different to me.

Your engineering buddy is forgetting that lower carbon steel is more magnetic. or as Joe put it "optimized for magnetic properties". The harder the steel gets, the brighter and harsher it sounds. The softer stuff sounds warmer to me, with more detail.

[David King]

Good point David,
I've only played around with 1/8" and 3/16" round pole pieces not solid bars.

"Optimized for magnetic properties" could mean several different things, pure iron won't hold a charge so if that's your criteria then yes.

I'm sure a lot of it is that my ears don't know what to listen for so until I have an extech to show me a change in the peak I just can't tell if there's a change.

[David Schwab]

I've swapped pole piece screws on a PAF style humbucker with screws of a different alloy, and you sure could hear a difference. And that didn't include the slugs.