Old Canadian 5w tube amp?

[murphinitis]

Hey there folks. Let me start out by saying this is my first post here and I have absolutely zero experience with tube amps. I bought a little 5w "Arc" amp today. "Made in montreal by pine electronics(pepco) in the sixties and early seventies. pepco made a number of amps, all similar- but with different badge names, like pine, regal,arc, riviera etc." ( Pepco Tube Amp - Thread ) This is about all I could dig up on the amp. A schematic would be awesome if anyone has one. I plan to put an isolation transformer in it, any advise on this?

Will this thing have any difficulty powering a 10" speaker? What type of speaker can you folks reccomend and what type of cabinet should I think about building?

Also, when I push it hard it sounds like an Octave effect. I found that the 8" speaker in this is damaged. Is this likely the cause of this sound?

Any other cool mods you can reccomend?

Thanks in advance everyone, the help is appreciated!

[Resonator Guy]

I used to have a number of amps made by Pine electronics, mainly because they were a Canadian company ( we can be chauvinistic up here in the frozen north ). The one you have is most likely a three tube model with no power transformer and a 50C5 output tube. It possibly has a 12AX7 preamp tube that has way too much gain for the circuit.
I could never get a real good clean sound out of any of these, but they did overdrive almost instantly with a tone some people found appealing.
There isn't much you can do with these to improve the sound. Try replacing every cap in the thing and test the resistors for drift.
They will power a 10 inch speaker, however I would try it with a borrowed speaker first so you aren't disappointed after buying a new Weber or some such.
All that said, I just recapped a Stagg PA head made by Pine. Two 12AX7s, two 6V6s and solid state rectification. I ran it through a 12" Jensen. Amazingly loud, sounds fantastic and is dead quiet. So there are good ones out there.
Keep hunting.

[Prairie Dawg]

Originally Posted by Resonator Guy

I used to have a number of amps made by Pine electronics, mainly because they were a Canadian company ( we can be chauvinistic up here in the frozen north ). The one you have is most likely a three tube model with no power transformer and a 50C5 output tube. It possibly has a 12AX7 preamp tube that has way too much gain for the circuit.
I could never get a real good clean sound out of any of these, but they did overdrive almost instantly with a tone some people found appealing.
There isn't much you can do with these to improve the sound. Try replacing every cap in the thing and test the resistors for drift.
They will power a 10 inch speaker, however I would try it with a borrowed speaker first so you aren't disappointed after buying a new Weber or some such.
All that said, I just recapped a Stagg PA head made by Pine. Two 12AX7s, two 6V6s and solid state rectification. I ran it through a 12" Jensen. Amazingly loud, sounds fantastic and is dead quiet. So there are good ones out there.
Keep hunting.

Chauvinism is good. It's no surprise it was named after a Frenchman.

The only problem I can see with Canadian amps is they're kinda hard to find here in Iowa. The newer Traynors are pretty common though the older ones and Garnetts are really hard to find.

I have seen pics of some old Supros sold by a chain of tire stores (McKinney?) up your way which I thought was passing strange. I guess anything to keep the money coming in.

[olddawg]

If it is a series filament amp with no transformer it could be a death trap. Use an isolation transformer. BTW, lots of big guns recorded famous tracks with Supros.

[murphinitis]

Thanks guys! This model does appear to have a transformer and it sounds pretty cool. It does break up pretty quickly, but I like it. I've removed the amp from the combo cabinet and built it a nice box of it's own so I can use different speaker cabinets. Also added the 3-pin power cord.

The only problem now is that it's really noisey. None of noise is coming from the guitar and it gets worse as I turn the volume and tone pots up. The bit of Googling I did suggests a new pre amp tube. Is here anything else that could cause these symptoms?

[murphinitis]

Forgot to mention the "Octave" effect went away with the damaged speaker. I ran it though a 12" cab and it sounded great, apart from the noise.

[Resonator Guy]

It will have an output transformer but does it have an power transformer? How many tubes and what kind are they?
The noise, or a great deal of it will probably be from old tired electrolytic capacitors in it. They likely won't have been changed since the amp was built in the 60s.
Can you post a pic or two of the original cab, and the chassis? We can tell you more then.

[murphinitis]

Thanks again Resonator Guy!

You're right, it does have a small transformer, which I assume is the output transformer. It does not have the giant second one that my guitarist's Orange has. I will post some pictures in the next couple of days. I pulled the stock AX7 out of my guitarist Tiny Terror (I'm a drummer btw), and it got rid of a lot of the noise but certainly not all of it. But it added some serious radio interference. I switched the tube back and the RF was gone, but the extra noise was back. Not sure if the helps or not but I thought it would be worth mentioning.

Approximately how much do you think it will cost for parts to re-cap this thing?

[Resonator Guy]

Well, depending on what is in there, it shouldn't cost too much.
All of mine had a three part can that I had to replace with three separate caps, as I couldn't find a can with the right values. There were also two maybe three other caps. Shipping and handling will probably cost more than the caps. I use "Antique Electronic Supply" quite a bit. Good products, good service.
Before you try any changes, do some reading and research. There are voltages in there that can KILL you.
You should replace the tubes too. You can likely find them on ebay or from AES. Good 12 AX7s can be a problem as you have seen. You will just have to try a few. Get one for your guitar player too, as the one in his Orange can't be too good if you get RF.
There are a lot of people on this forum that can help. Lots of them know way more than I do. Do your research and ask reasonably informed questions and you will get a lot of info.

Good Luck.