VOX vintage tone speaker

[benito_red]

hello to everybody,
as i like very much the Hank Marvin (of the Shadows) strat tone, I 've planned to build a VOX AC4 clone in the hope to get close to the Hank's typical sound.
My AC4 version will be without tremolo, just the EF86 pre and the EL84 output tube, in head arrangement to prevent EF86 microfonics issues.

Now i ask suggestion about what speaker would be suitable for such amp?

I know that Celestion blu alnico 12"/15Watt is the classical choice for that kind of tone, but i would prefer to use a speaker not bigger than 10" (eventually even an 8") and not so expensive as a Celestion.

I heard that Jensen produces a line of speakers called MOD in America and CH in Europe (but they are exactly the same) and they are told to be good sounding and a bit british.
Did anybody try them?
Are there better alternatives ?

Thanks a lot in advance,
benito

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Hi Benito,
that's a difficult question to answer, because the use of Vox amps was in fact only ONE of many factors involved in the creation of the classical "Hank Marvin" sound....( one of the other factors being the extensive use of an Italian-made Meazzi tape echo ).

However, as with any other great guitar player, I think the most important factors of course, were Hank's fingers .

Back on topic....First of all, I don't think the AC4 to be a good choice, as it was only a "student" amp, you would probably get closer to your goal by cloning an early AC15 ( or, if you feel up to the challenge, an early AC30 ) instead.

The use of a pentode ( EF86 / 6267 ) in the preamp section also played a big role IMHO, as the absence of Miller effect made for a more "chimey" sound; The first issue of the venerable AC30 sported an EF86 as well, and when they later switched to ECC83s because of the EF86 stage being microphonic, some of the original flavor ( chime/treble content ) went lost.

As to the speakers, AFAIK Jensens are now manufactured in Italy ( near Ancona ), and they also have some "vintage reissues" in their catalog, but the use of different materials (e.g. the coil former in the "P10R reissue" is made of Kapton ) makes for a harsher tone IMHO.

JM2CW

Hope this helps

Best regards

Bob

[benito_red]

Originally Posted by Robert M. Martinelli

Hi Benito,
that's a difficult question to answer, because the use of Vox amps was in fact only ONE of many factors involved in the creation of the classical "Hank Marvin" sound....( one of the other factors being the extensive use of an Italian-made Meazzi tape echo ). ....

First of all thanks Robert for your answer.
I understand that is almost impossible to get exactly the same tone, and also there is people telling that even Hank Marvin does not have the tone of Hank Marvin when live in concert. I would just be satisfied to get a similar sound.
Instead of the Meazzi tape echo, i will try to find any digital pedal that is not too bad, perhaps one BOSS.

I could try to clone the old AC15 with only the EF86 channel (no tremolo) and always in head configuration instead of combo.

But do you think that 4watt instead of 15 and the missing PhaseInverter may result in a big difference in tone? Or maybe the difference is mostly due to the fact that with just 4watt it is not so easy to drive a speaker in the break-up region?

Thanks n regards
benito

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Hi Benito,
As to the "tape echo", I think the Line6 DL4 is also worth a try, as, AFAICR it also sports a "tape echo" modeler.

As I was telling you, the AC4 was only an "entry level student amp" back then, and there are many differences from a design standpoint if we compare it with the AC15.

The AC4's output stage is a true class A single ended one, while the AC15 is a ( hot biased ) class AB1 push-pull, this, combined with the absence of a ( LTPI ) phase inverter makes for a big difference in tone, as, apart from its main purpose, a LTPI allows more gain and tone shaping. The harmonic content is different, too, as p-p designs tend to cancel even order harmonics.

I don't think the "speaker breakup" to be much of an issue in this case, because of the original "cleanliness" of the Hank Marvin sound you're after, meaning that you'll be "playing it clean" most of the time.

Lastly, 4 W are really too little for anything but studio work or practice at home IMHO.

All in all, my vote still goes to an early AC15 ( or early AC30 ) clone. Be warned, though, that EF86s in early AC15s ( and 30s ) tend to be or become microphonic, so you could find yourself facing the same problem on your clone ( BTW, this is why D. Denney dropped the EF86 in favor of the ECC83 in the AC30's second issue ( circa 1960 ).

Hope this helps

Best regards

Bob

[benito_red]

Originally Posted by Robert M. Martinelli

Hi Benito,
.....
I don't think the "speaker breakup" to be much of an issue in this case, because of the original "cleanliness" of the Hank Marvin sound you're after, meaning that you'll be "playing it clean" most of the time.

Lastly, 4 W are really too little for anything but studio work or practice at home IMHO.

All in all, my vote still goes to an early AC15 ( or early AC30 ) clone. Be warned, though, that EF86s in early AC15s ( and 30s ) tend to be or become microphonic, so you could find yourself facing the same problem on your clone ( BTW, this is why D. Denney dropped the EF86 in favor of the ECC83 in the AC30's second issue ( circa 1960 ).

Hope this helps ....

Yes Robert your advices will help me a lot.

I think i will go for the AC15 clone, after all I already have suitable trannies and valves for it in my little stock. Besides to arrange it in head configuration I'll mount the EF86 socket with rubber whashers.

For the speaker break-up my guess was (maybe I'm wrong) that even with clean sound, the speaker B.U. can contribute to add some armonics.
I compared an alnico speaker with a ceramic, (same brand speakers and power rating same amp, same settings of course: below saturation) result: the ceramic was a bit more HiFi like. I thougt the difference was due to early B.U. in alnico, later B.U. in ceramic.

Maybe my guess about B.U. correct?

bye, and thanks again, benito

[Steve Conner]

Hi Benito,

Do you have a Strat with heavy gauge strings? If so you're 90% of the way to getting Hank's tone! You just need the echo unit, some horn-rimmed glasses and a very short guitar strap.

I have a Line 6 Echo Park pedal, and it has a tape echo model, as far as I know similar to the DL4.

I've used an EF86 in a combo amp: I found a NOS Mullard and rubber mounted it. So far there have been no problems.

[Robert M. Martinelli]

+1 on the Strat being 90% of the typical "Hank Marvin's tone", but only if it's a "Fiesta Red" one!

Cheers

Bob

[benito_red]

Originally Posted by Steve Conner

Hi Benito,

Do you have a Strat with heavy gauge strings? If so you're 90% of the way to getting Hank's tone! You just need the echo unit, some horn-rimmed glasses and a very short guitar strap.

I have a Line 6 Echo Park pedal, and it has a tape echo model, as far as I know similar to the DL4.

I've used an EF86 in a combo amp: I found a NOS Mullard and rubber mounted it. So far there have been no problems.

I have a strat (not fiesta but red ) problem is the truss road screw is spoiled and would not compensate heavy gauge strings drawing, perhaps I'll have to buy a new one.

thanks n regards
benito

[Robert M. Martinelli]

I'd save some money and change the neck only.... unless you want to go that extra mile and buy a fiesta red Strat for real .

Cheers

Bob