JBL vs EV

[cminor9]

I know everyone seems to hate the speaker questions. But I promise I won't ask which speaker I would like best. I am interested in a comparison between two speakers.

I want to build an ext cab that will let me bring the noise should I want it, and I have it narrowed down to two possibilities:

1) a 15" JBL clone from Weber (the California)
2) a 15" EV clone from Weber (the Michigan)

What are the attributes of the famous EV and JBL D series speakers? The descriptions on the weber site are somewhat hard for me to understand.

I am definitely interested in the opinions of those in the know about these speakers.

[olddawg]

Back in the 70s (I don't know what classic series of speakers these are clones of) JBLs were known for cleans. People put them in Twin Reverbs for sparkly clean. Very popular for C&W artists. EVs were put in by rental companies because they were virtually indestructible but didn't sound like much. What we usually used were Jensens, CTS, the ocassional Utah and for Marshalls..... Celestians of course. For Vox Fanes and Celestians. If it is for PA application, again JBL for sound quality and EV for reliability. Anyway, my old perceptions.

[Bill Moore]

Olddawg, I think you're generally correct, but don't forget the JBL "flubbiness" with low frequencies. What made JBL a great guitar speaker, (loose responsive motor etc.), made them a terrible low frequency transducer. The EV was tighter, and didn't "bottom out", when fed low freq., but was so clean, many accused it of being sterille. I think both manufacturers improved on their weakness into the 80's and newer.
It's a shame we don't have Ted to consult anymore, with a couple of e-mails he always recommended just what I needed. Mail TA cminor9, I'll bet he's up to speed to recommend just the right speaker.

[cminor9]

thanks for the info, guys. I really appreciate it. I don't know why I didn't think to email weber in the first place, Ted has always been helpful in the past. I guess whomever is answering emails now hopefully has even 1/10th the knowledge Ted had.

[soundmasterg]

If you want the old JBL sound, you might want to wait for Weber to get their Neo series released again. The old D series JBL's were Ted's favorite speakers and he did a bang up job on getting the Neos to sound right....plus being Neo they are lighter than the alnico. I think TA was changing some things with the construction details to make those speakers easier to make, and they were going to be available again.

greg

[Rocketrob]

The EV speakers are also very efficiant; they will make any amp much louder. It's true they don't distort, but if you have an amp that distorts on its own like a tweed style fender design, the results can be very good. I love the way my 5E3 head sounds through an old 12" EV SRO speaker I have. Semi-open back cabinet. I can play with a drummer just fine with the amp turned up half way. This speaker is about 35 yrs old and still sounds good; reliable? Yes. RD.

[pdf64]

Rocketrob - Has the cone on your SRO got a fabric or paper edge? My fabric edge one sounds great but doesn't have much top end. Peter.

[Rocketrob]

Peter- I can't remember if the edge is fabric or paper, but it does have enough top end, although I would not say it's a bright sounding speaker. The Weber 12150F that I have is much brighter. The EV has a bigger voice coil, I think that gives it a deeper sound. It really cuts through on stage. RD

[cminor9]

That's exactly the discussion I was looking for. I play a variety of amps, and the speakers on each is tailored to the amp. I just want something I can plug into to augment what I have if I ever need more volume and punch. The EV sounds like the ticket.

So would an AL dome sound brighter than paper? Those are the options Weber offers.

[RudeBoy]

Originally Posted by cminor9

That's exactly the discussion I was looking for. I play a variety of amps, and the speakers on each is tailored to the amp. I just want something I can plug into to augment what I have if I ever need more volume and punch. The EV sounds like the ticket.

So would an AL dome sound brighter than paper? Those are the options Weber offers.

AFAIK no. But it will look brighter. This. The highs come from the entire surface of the cone. That is why twelves beam. Fifteens moreso. The larger the cone the narrower the beam. Sometimes this can be a good thing. Still, fifteens have a certain something.

[cminor9]

I have never played a 15". I didn't know they did that. I sounds like I don't want a 15" speaker. I just figured a 15" would give even more kick, plus I figured being a bit slower, it'd fatten up my sound since my speakers are 12" or 10".

But beaming is a bummer; you're either too loud or too quiet. That's one thing I hated about my Hot Rod DeVille. Even with that 4x10 speaker cab it was too directional.

That mod looks interesting, thanks for the link. That might be worth a try if I ever need to diffuse some sound a bit.

[RudeBoy]

Originally Posted by cminor9

That mod looks interesting, thanks for the link. That might be worth a try if I ever need to diffuse some sound a bit.

The Standel 25L15-ish inspired I am building requires a JBL D130(F). I will definitely experiment with the foam donut. It costs very little and is completely removable. It will be up to the ultimate owner to keep it or pitch it.

[black_labb]

Originally Posted by cminor9

I have never played a 15". I didn't know they did that. I sounds like I don't want a 15" speaker. I just figured a 15" would give even more kick, plus I figured being a bit slower, it'd fatten up my sound since my speakers are 12" or 10".

But beaming is a bummer; you're either too loud or too quiet. That's one thing I hated about my Hot Rod DeVille. Even with that 4x10 speaker cab it was too directional.

That mod looks interesting, thanks for the link. That might be worth a try if I ever need to diffuse some sound a bit.

the reason a 4x10 is beaming alot is because it has a suare arrangement of speakers. a 15" cone beams a fair bit because it has a wide surface area. putting 4 speakers in a square arrangement increases the beaming over a single speaker.
so a single 10" will beam less than a single 15", but put 4 10's in a square arrangement and you will get more beaming than the single 15". essentially you are going from one big circular cone, to a big cone made up of 4 10" circles. the edges will be atleast 20" apart (or 18" because the cones dont extend to the edge of the speaker) where the edges on the 15" will be 13-14" apart, so have less beaming.

[Five_E35]

Originally Posted by cminor9

So would an AL dome sound brighter than paper? Those are the options Weber offers.

I've been thinking about a K130 in 1x15 Tone Ring Showman cab, or doing a K120 in a Tone-ring Tremolux sized cab. Anyone have any experience with those cabs - are they worth the trouble?

Anyway, maybe a little late but FWIW one of the guys who worked for JBL on the D-f's used to post on net, and he claimed that for the Aluminum dome to be work right without harshness, it had to be attached directly to the voice coil former, not glued to the cone like some copies. The curved cones JBL & EV use are designed to stop cone-cry, another source of harshness in speakers with efficient motors. Another difference that affects beaminess is a shallow vs. deep cone common to older vintage designs. A 15" JBL is much less beamy than an old Jensen. Another usefull piece of information was that JBL power ratings when used in open back cabs were supposed to be de-rated by 50%.

[Skwisgaar]

Newbie here.

I hope I don't get nailed for thread hijacking, but I'm going to come at the E/V v JBL question from a different angle.

I have an Earcandy Sovereign, which has 2 ports on the front, loaded with an EVM-12LB. I like it so much that I started wondering what the same cabinet loaded with a JBL E-120/Beyma Liberty-8 would sound like. If the Black Label hadn't come out when I ordered the Earcandy, I would have ordered a stereo sealed 412 with Celestion G12K-100 from Mills Acoustics. I had only tried an E/V once, on a 112 Mesa enclosure in a noisy Guitar Center and didn't have an impression one way or another, and I noted Rivera's comments at the time that the E/V's they offered as an option were custom models because the regular production E/Vs had been ruined with bad quality. By the time I wanted a brand new, no compromise enclosure, I saw that E/V's were out of production and was thinking they were a dead animal when I found the promos for the Black Label just when it came out. I was convinced by Zakk's testimonial and I saw I could get all the power hadling I could conceivably ever use from one speaker.

I see JBLs are known for a good clean tone and the aluminum dust cap means they might be too bright for distortion. The reputation for flubby low end may not apply to the E-120, it has a resonance frequency of 37 Hz or something like that, which means it may have been JBL's brief attempt to match the low end of EVM-12L.

It wouldn't surprise me that the Black Label would be bass heavy in a 412 cabinet. That being said, Mills Acoustics does offer them as a standard option now.

But I don't really know how my cabinet, holding speaker constant, compares to a sealed 412. Does a 112 with ports have more bass or less? Brighter or darker?

I currently bridge a 2 channel power amp. Maybe one speaker for clean and another for dirty?

[Baxtercat]

My two cents on Calis:
I had two paper-dome Weber Cali 10s in my Vibrolux. They are almost too smooth [unlike a JBL alum. type dome].
Real good for overdrive but I really miss the highs for clean....
They remind me more of an EV than a JBL, just so you know.


[some EV sounds, live...]

YouTube - Victory Lane on Cannery Row - Pink Floyd Medley

YouTube - Victory Lane on Cannery Row - Pink Floyd Medley

[bob p]

back to the OP's question, I think that the EVM drivers are a bit tighter in the LF than the JBL D series. I think they sound better for bass. They're certainly more reliable.

I've been using the same set of EVM-15L Series II speakers in thiele ported cabinets for guitar/bass applications since 1976. The Series II drivers have an insane power rating -- somthing like 400 W RMS. These drivers have been going for 33 years now and they're still going strong. I've never had them reconed.