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Thread: Webcor 2110-1 reel to reel

  1. #1
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    Webcor 2110-1 reel to reel

    I'm a complete tube noob, however love se guitar amps. So was at ye old thrift store yesterday and could not resist dragging home a Webcore 2110-1 reel to reel, that lit up when briefly plugged in at the store. Tubes: 12ax7, 12at7, 6x5, 2-6v6. Now having a wee bit of knowledge that these tubes have some potential...my imagination ran wild. So now that I got it home...any suggestions, e.g., returning it, parting it, scrapping and salvaging for parts to do a se 6v6, having a tech mod it. My preferences would be to minor mod it or have it modded for a pp 6v6 or scrap and salvage to attempt a first build simple 5F1 (?) type amp. Any suggestions or thoughts appreciated. Thanks
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    Last edited by wrathfuldeity; 12-10-2009 at 09:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Junior Member Robert8192's Avatar
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    Hey WrathfulDeity,,

    Do not return that baby... Look at the condition of those parts!!

    You could try and convert it as is into a really soulful sounding
    amp. I wish it were mine.....

    I will keep in touch.

  3. #3
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Great conversion project. I would gut it down to the chassis, tube sockets and transformers, then build a new tag/turret board for it. Then a couple of pots and a jack and you're done. Use what ever small 6V6 pp amp template you like. If you want to add another stage and need more heater currentsans the rectifier tube and use an SS rectifier. There's a great layout for a plexish 6V6 18 watt Marshall Lite on the 18 watt.com site. Just don't hurt yourself if your're clueless. Tube amps can kill you!

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    That's a great score! Usually the old reel to reel decks I find are single ended amps-- an ecl82 or el 84.
    I do what the previous poster says and gut them, then fit a smallish usually 8" speaker in, and voila you have a great portable amp.
    I'm more than a little jealous of yours though! Good luck you'll find lots of help here...
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  5. #5
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    2 X EL84s pp can be quite loud. I run mine through a 4X10 18 Marshall 1965A cab and it screams. Plenty loud for a club if you don't need serious cleans.

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    You might not need to gut it and re-build to have a cool guitar amp. Does it have an input for a microphone and an out for an external speaker cab? I have a Webcor I use as a guitar amp straight up and it sounds cool. A bit dark through a limited range guitar speaker but it rips with a great tweedy tone through the "full range" extension unit that goes with it.

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    Should make a good amp.
    You may or may not need another OP transformer if you want PP output.
    It appears that one 6V6 is the tape recording bias oscillator, suggesting that it is a single ended output setup as it is.

  8. #8
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unparalleled View Post
    Should make a good amp.
    You may or may not need another OP transformer if you want PP output.
    It appears that one 6V6 is the tape recording bias oscillator, suggesting that it is a single ended output setup as it is.
    If that is true you will probably need a different OT for a PP amp. You also might want to check the B+. You may havr to use an SS rectifier to get it up to what you need for guitar amp application.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurekaiv View Post
    You might not need to gut it and re-build to have a cool guitar amp. Does it have an input for a microphone and an out for an external speaker cab? I have a Webcor I use as a guitar amp straight up and it sounds cool. A bit dark through a limited range guitar speaker but it rips with a great tweedy tone through the "full range" extension unit that goes with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by unparalleled View Post
    Should make a good amp.
    You may or may not need another OP transformer if you want PP output.
    It appears that one 6V6 is the tape recording bias oscillator, suggesting that it is a single ended output setup as it is.
    Everyone, thanks for the replys.

    So according to eurekaiv's note...maybe try it like it is?

    And according to unparalleled's note...perhaps its already a single ended amp...so how do I check this out?...the schmatic is glued in the bottom of the box. My first preference is for a se 6v6 5F1 type amp...so if it is already a se, so would the proper approach be to strip it and then build up a 5F1 circuit from the usable bits. Btw it appears to have a copper chassis, is there an advantage or disadvantage of trying to use it?

    Thanks for the patience, I figure this will be a prolonged process of learning and putting it together.

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    If you can plug right in why not? I'd certainly see how it sounded before I tore it all apart but YMMV. I just hate to gut vintage equipment unless it's un-repairable and/or worthless.

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    Could you post a clear photo of the schematic diagram from the unit?
    Then we could see exactly what you've got to work with

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    Finally got time to get a picture of the schematic. Btw Merry Christmas

    Picasa Web Albums - Tim

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    So am I thinking right? The plan is to gut this as old dawg noted, salvage what I can, build up a tag/turret board and do a SE 6v6 with a 12ax7 preamp, perhaps change the rectifier to 5y3gt. Something like a 5F1 or 5F2a. So is this a reasonable thing to do with available parts and is it doable first build? What are the things to salvage, can I use the copper chassis? Here is the schematic…you can magnify it with the button on the upper right and then move it around… Picasa Web Albums - Tim

    Also plan on seeing if a volunteer tech at the American Museum of Radio and Electricity American Museum of Radio & Electricity can give me some guidance.
    Thanks

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    You certainly have all the necessary parts there already. You'll want to keep all the transformers, the chassis and the case. You already have tag strips no need to buy more just unsolder the pieces off the ones you have and reorder them as you like. If you're going to follow a known schematic then it's really cut and paste. I personally like point to point wiring like what you have there already because it makes you more aware of placement of components.
    About the only things you do need are probably a new 3 prong power cord, a loudspeaker and a baffle board with some cloth stretched over it. Don't make it too complicated on yourself!
    Of course someone else will have their own opinion on it-- that's just how I do it with the old tape machines.

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    Member gayler's Avatar
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    Is it copper, or plated? I also would like to know if there is an advantage because I have an old stereo with a copper chassis also that I would like to convert. It uses two 6F6g's an 6x5I think and a couple of 6sk7's I think.

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    Junior Member Robert8192's Avatar
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    Hi,
    Mercy me, maybe the internet has a better scan of the schematic.

    What I would do is find a supplier of a kit for the intended amp,
    check if your power transformer and OP transformers will
    work and ask that the kit not include those..
    Maybe like 250$ for the parts kit and you would be rolling..

    I have found that few of the vintage parts can be reused,
    some will, but I would maybe test them..

    Hope that helps.

  17. #17
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    I would try to reuse the chassis. It will be full of holes and may seem ugly, but if you fabricate a new faceplate (out of plexiglass, sheet metal, whatever) to cover the front of it and mount it in a box, it will never be seen and no one will be the wiser. I would only use the transformers and the chassis. A Champ is a very simple single ended amp. I would get new ceramic tube sockets, pots, jacks and components. You don't want to be frustrated troubleshooting old tube sockets, etc. I would use an eyelet board or a turret board for the circuit, especially if you have never built an amp. It will not be a big expense. Reusing those tag strips can be a pain if you are a noob and unsoldering and cleaning everything just isn't worth it IMHO. Buy new stuff and start fresh. Look on some kit sites and see if you can find a layout diagram. Be aware that even though an amp like this is small and low output the B+ voltage in it can still kill you. Read up on safety proceedures and know how to discharge the filter caps. Check your PT voltages. If the secondary voltages are low compared to what the Champ requires, you might want to consider using an SS rectifier with a sag resistor. That will bring the B+ up a bit. Use a 3 wire power cord with a chassis ground. I usually pull an assemply out of a junk computer to save a few bucks. They're everywhere for nothing. They're also a good source for sheet metal for front and back panels. Or...... you can just go out and buy a Epiphone Valve Jr and have a similar amp for not much more money and no work.

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    My Webcor experience

    1- Your schematic looks a lot like the 2719 I converted, so you appear to have a have single 6v6 power section. The other 6V6 is for the record bias circuit. To prove that take out the furthest 6v6 and see if it still plays just as loudly. To use both 6v6s in the audio circuit, you would need to rewire, and would need a different OT. Other forum posts also mention limitations of the 6x5. I measure 330V off mine.
    2- To play guitar through the input, I locked the play/ record slider switch into record mode . If you decide to gut it, you can see visually which wires are "active" in record mode because they are engaged. I then fearlessly removed all of the other circuit parts that were switched off and/ or obviously connected to the reel to reel mechanism. Or you could just leave the switch lock in record mode and not gut it at all. The internal speaker is ratty on these, but it sounds nice through an efficient 12' Alnico extension cab. I will be installing a Weber 6X9, currently on order.
    3- I installed a pilot light, fuse, and 3 prong cord. Moved the on/ off switch off the Volume control into an used jack hole.
    4- I did not document my before/ after photos well, but here are 2 shots of mine, with just a few cosmetic touches left to finish.
    Good luck!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails picture-017.jpg   picture-016.jpg  
    Last edited by Kalamazoo; 02-23-2010 at 01:40 AM.

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    Today in that ski/snowboard season is almost over and with success of finding the newcomb phonograph that works great as an amp; decided to do as Eurekaiv suggested...try it...put the tubes in the chassis and fired it up. It works, no hum, no smoke, no sizzle and some "ok" geetar sound....however it was not very loud...is this due to the ratty 6" speaker? And thanks to Kalamazoo's reference of pulling the end 6v6 tube; was able to determine that it is a single ended 6v6.

    So I assume that the basic of the gut and rebuild plan is good and the major bits are intact. Thus now I thinking use the major parts to do a se 6v6 and keep the 6x5 rectifier. So now a question about the output transformer, the ratty little speaker measured 3.2 ohms and I have a few good 8 ohm speakers (jensen 12", cts 8", and a weber 12")...so I assume to use an 8 ohm speaker I need to get a different output transformer with 8 ohm tap or get a good 4 ohm speaker? Also there is an external speaker jack...so I assume it is also for a 4 ohm speaker?

    In the meanwhile, thinking about following Kalamazoo's lead and strip the un-necessary bits, add a 3 prong cord, try a better speaker and then when the filters and cap go bad, do the rebuild.

    Thanks for the help.

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    Speaker choices

    The ratty little speakers definitely do not work for guitar. Different OT is an option, but I would favor just just wiring 2 of your 8 ohm speakers in parallel , in a separate cab, for a 4 ohm load. I bought a Weber 4 ohm speaker (6x9") for mine and installed it in the cab so I have the option of playing without a separate cab. But separate cab is better when you crank since these cabs rattle.

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    Just finished the "webcor stack" LOL. Sounds fairly muddy and overdriven...not a clean to be had with the parallel 2-12 inch stack. Any suggestions for getting it cleaner? Anyway its been fun little project and was happy to keep the "green eye" working.
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    Are you playing it "stock"?

    Being "Champ" like, there is not too much clean headroom in these little guys. I am not familiar with your 2110, but I get decent headroom up to about 4 on my 210 and 2719 conversions that were left stock escept for the removal of extraneous parts. If there is a mic and a phono input, you might try both. Check voltages. Underbiased 6V6s will sound Brown at best and ratty at worst. Maybe you could change the input resistors and caps to those typical for a guitar amp input. Ultimately, you may be gutting this for a Harvard conversion as did "Platefire" on thre Telecaster forum. But you would lose the cool green eye, which I also kept on my 210 conversion.

    Any thoughts for us from those who actually know this stuff? That's about the best I can do for you.

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    Greetings from FixitLand!

    Quote Originally Posted by wrathfuldeity View Post
    I'm a complete tube noob, however love se guitar amps. So was at ye old thrift store yesterday and could not resist dragging home a Webcore 2110-1 reel to reel, that lit up when briefly plugged in at the store. Tubes: 12ax7, 12at7, 6x5, 2-6v6. Now having a wee bit of knowledge that these tubes have some potential...my imagination ran wild. So now that I got it home...any suggestions, e.g., returning it, parting it, scrapping and salvaging for parts to do a se 6v6, having a tech mod it. My preferences would be to minor mod it or have it modded for a pp 6v6 or scrap and salvage to attempt a first build simple 5F1 (?) type amp. Any suggestions or thoughts appreciated. Thanks
    I know this is a fairly old thread, but I happened across it and, as the owner of three Webcor tape recorders (one of them a 2110), I have to ask: Do you still happen to have the heads, motors or other mechanical parts from the tape recorder? I could make use of heads and motors particularly, if they aren't worn out.

    When in Record mode, the amp is single-ended with one 6V6 while the other 6V6 runs as a bias oscillator. In Playback mode, the amp is switched into push-pull mode and has feedback from the output transformer applied to the cathodes. By now, you might well have rewired it, but that's how it was originally. Curious circuit.

    Take care,
    --
    J. E. Knox 'The Victor Freak'

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    I gave all the extraneous Webcor and Voice of music parts to a friend who has your hobby. I hope folks are not just throwing the parts out. I have sold some components from old radios etc on eBay- for 99 cents plus exact shipping, so that they would be recycled to a good home. All I have now is the tape head/ motor mechanisms for a Magnavox portable Reel to reel that uses an ECL86 tube. That will be a cool conversion soon- a 3 Watt Marshall!. I will also be disasssembling an Akai Roberts deck in the future, and will try to find a home for the tape parts for that unit as well. Thanks for the clue on the cathode feedback. I noted Webcor did that on the 333 musicale phonograph as well.

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