peavey 5150 sounds bad

[torpedoted]

Hey guys I just joined to see if anyone can help me out. I have a peavey 5150 that sounds like crap. I just got all the tubes replaced including the peamp with jj and my guitar tech moded my power supply to give my tone more definition. I still think their is somthing wrong my tone with the highs and the presence at 12 o clock sounds really blurry, muddy, and not that bright or crunchy at all. Just so I can get a really nice clear bright crunchy tone I need to turn the highs and presence all the way up and I have to use a 10 band eq in the Fx loop just to brighten it up. I use two different cabinets a marshall 212 mc with vintage 30s and a peavey 5150 cabinet. I told my tech about it and he said that everything checks out good. another problem I have is my presence knob doesnt work untill you turn it to 8 than you hear it kick in. Can anyone help me out or has anybody have had this problem. If I cant figure it out than im just gonna have to save my money and get an engl fireball or vht

[Steve Conner]

Well, did it sound bad BEFORE your tech did all that to it? Or did he mess it up?

If it sounded bad before, then maybe that's just the way it was designed to sound, and you need a different amp.

If he broke it, then it needs fixed.

[Jazz P Bass]

From the schematic it appears that the Resonance Control is before the Presence Control.
Can you check whether or not they are interactive?
I would think the Presence should kick in before you turn it to 8.
Are you using the correct output jack for the cabs that you use?

[torpedoted]

the stuff he did to the amp made it sound a little bit better but the overall tone is still bad

[torpedoted]

yea im pretty sure im using the right speaker cable for my amp. Im using a monster cable for speakers.

[bluesfreak]

The 5150 (especially the MK I ) do run on very low Bias (typically 11-13mA) so its sound depends highly on the quality of the tubes. I don't know which tubes you have installed but I would recommend you JJs as they sound generally a bit more bold and bassy then average 6L6. Stay away from 5881, IMHO they are to brilliant for this amp and please forget about SovTek in a 5150. I would recommend that you get an adjustable bias installed and good tubes biased properly that will make a huge improvement.

[Jazz P Bass]

Originally Posted by torpedoted

yea im pretty sure im using the right speaker cable for my amp. Im using a monster cable for speakers.

What I meant was is the cabinet plugged into the correct jack.
4, 8 or 16 ohm.
What is the DC resistance of the cabs?

[torpedoted]

well the 5150 cab has one 16 ohm mono jack and the 5150 has two jacks so I just set the amp to 16 ohms and plug it into one of the jacks on the amp to the cabinet.

[torpedoted]

well the 5150 I have is the one with the signature not the one with the big block letters that say EVH. Yea my guitar tech replaced my old tubes with JJs including the preamp which has JJs as well plus he upgraded my power supply now as far as biasing the tubes im not sure if he did that. I really dont know anything on bias tubes or what it means

[torpedoted]

well it does work and it doesnt sound like or not even as good as any of the other 5150s or 6505 ive heard but it is what it is I guess. Its good for a back up amp so like I said im going to get somthing that is actually good and save my money for an engl fireball or a vht pittbull thanks any way guys.

[bluesfreak]

Don't give up too early, a 5150 can be a very impressive amp. The bias mod is pretty simple, just remove R68 (15k) and replace it with a 25k poti in series with a 4.7k resistor and set a 10k R in parallel so your connection is not open when the bias pot fails.
The adjust bias to approx 38-40mA (~68V) preferrable measured with a bias probe...

[Steve Conner]

OK, but isn't the 5150 supposed to be a dark, "brown" sounding kind of amp? It was designed with input from EVH to get his so-called brown sound, after all.

Now, this guy has all of the treble controls goosed, an EQ to boost the treble, Vintage 30s which are known for their ferocious treble, and he's still not happy with the treble. I don't see a bias mod fixing that. The cold bias was a deliberate choice to improve the lead tone, anyway.

Are you looking to get a bright, cleanish Fender Twin kind of sound out of it on the rhythm channel (that's probably not going to happen) or is it the high-gain lead tone that you want to brighten up?

[axpro]

Personally i HATED my 5150, but that was many many years ago. but beyond my opinion.. you haven't really cleared up whether the amp sounded "good" or not before the tube change.

Is there a specific sound you are going for? for example, stock, a 5150 doesn't really do "clean" at all. and it is a darker sound by design. also, have you played other 5150's of the same era? if it is an early (ver 1) 5150, there were some changes as they went forward.

[torpedoted]

Well the amp does sound better with the new jj tubes in it. I did bring my 5150 up to guitar center and compared it to a 5150 2. My amp at that time did have the new tubes in it and the 5150 2 still had the stock tubes in it. The 5150 2 didnt have as much sustain or gain as mine but it sounded brighter, tighter, and sharp if that makes any sense, like it had a good bite to it when I would do a fast picking rhythms. My 5150 sounded kinda loose and flabby compaired to the 5150 2 and not as bright. basically the tone im trying to get is for example theirs a band "which I dont know if you ever heard of them" called Inflames, they use a peavey 5150 6505 and their tone is really tight and sharp, thats the kind of distortion im looking for.

[torpedoted]

im trying to brighten up the lead tone on it like when I play fast picking rhythms I want it to sound bright and tight not flabby and loose. Now if im playing drop D kind of stuff such as lamb of god songs and I have the amp volume turned a little past 2 with the eq going through it, it sounds decent but its still not up to my standards.

[torpedoted]

hey I was talking to my amp tech and he said I could put new transformers in my amp and that would give it more high end. Im guessing that would ad to the treble I dont know but also he replaced the filter caps only in the power supply, do you think replacing the other filter caps would make it sound better?

[axpro]

I think a new set of transformers is WAY overboard for an amp like the 5150. there are other places you could add a bit of brightness to the circuit without resorting to a transformer swap.

What is the history of the amp? was it new when you got it? has it been modded? I only ask cause i know a few people who got me to do tube swaps on 5150's trying to calm down the excessive gain a bit, and most of the guys i knew were trying to warm them up... could be that you got someone's mod???

[torpedoted]

well I bought the amp off ebay from some guy and he didnt say anything about the amp being modded, the only thing he said was he had the tubes replaced and he let the amp sit untouched or not even turned on for 3 years. Now I dont know as far as if it was sitting in a cold damp environment such as a garage or a basement but if thats the case maybe somthing in the amp was really effected by that. My amp tech did look it over and he would have told me if the amp was modded considering he does mods himself. But you dont think new transformers would give it more treble cause I know they do cost like 200 a pop but hey if it makes a big difference as far as overall tone than it could be a good investment. Do you think maybe replacing the other old filter caps give it a brighter tone?

[axpro]

I don't think filter caps are going to change your treble response appreciably.

What are you using guitar wise? listening to some of the songs on youtube, it's not my cup of tea, but since i used to work guitar sales (now i work repairs!!!) I am used to having people come in looking for "the sound"

Understandably, they are using active pickups. and tuning down a LOT. downtuning that much can rob your guitar of a lot of response, especially if you are using light strings. There is a lot of compression on there, and the lead breaks sound processed. the only rig info i can find all points to 5150 type amps, but pod xt's as well. which will explain part of the tone changes.

As tot he transformer? I Truly don't think it is going to be the thing that "clicks" and makes this perfect.

Also, on choice of tubes for the retube. Chinese ax7's in the first stage would probably give you aharder edge to the sound, if thats not what you used already.

[torpedoted]

well my amp tech also told me that yea new transformers would give it more high end but he said the transformers in the 5150 are good. His only beef was the power supply on the 5150. So I will keep the transformers as far as tubes go I just checked out the preamp tubes he put two jj ecc83 tubes on the right side, one jj ecc83 tube on the left side and the two tubes in the middle are jj ecc803 tubes. my old tubes that were in the amp were sovtek. I guess it does make a difference with pickups cause my lespaul with emgs sound the best with the peavey 5150, my other two guitars sound kinda flabby compaired to the lespaul. I have an ibanez with dimarzio d sonic pickups and I have a dean dimebag guitar with bill lawrence 500xl pickups. well like I said if it comes down to it im going to save my money and get an engl fireball cause I think thats the tone im looking for

[Steve Conner]

I think Peavey made changes to brighten up the tone for the 5150 Mk2 and onwards. I agree that swapping transformers is a waste of time/money. If your tech really knew what he was doing, he could snip out some little capacitor somewhere and give you all the ear-bleeding treble you wanted.

I'd suggest contacting Jerry at FJA Mods for advice. He sometimes drops by this forum.

FJA Mods

5150 VS 5150II < his explanation of differences between the 5150 and 5150 2

[torpedoted]

So if I do get the other capacitors replaced that would give me more treble. My tech just so you know didnt tell me I should get new transformers he just suggested that I could but overall he told that its just a waste of money and that the transformers in the 5150 are good, he looked at my other capacitors and said that they are still good but hey if getting new replacement capacitors will give more treble than I might just go for it.

[JerryP]

Don't touch the transformers, total waste for what you're looking for. Dump the JJ 12AX7's. I don't care for the JJ 6L6's either, but they should work OK. I would try some new Mullard 12AX7's or Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the preamp. If you like the bright buzzy tone have the bias set on the cold side. I usually bias 5150's 28-30 ma per tube.
Jerry

[Steve Conner]

Originally Posted by torpedoted

he looked at my other capacitors and said that they are still good but hey if getting new replacement capacitors will give more treble than I might just go for it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your amp. It's probably sounding the way a 5150 Mk1 was designed to sound. The other ones that you heard and liked better were probably Mk2s, 6505s, or whatever: Peavey changed the circuit to give the later models less gain and a brighter tone, as explained on the FJA Mods site.

So by "snip a capacitor out" I don't mean remove a faulty capacitor, I mean modify the circuit to filter off less high end.

Jerry has a point, the JJ 12AX7s are supposed to be quite smooth and dark sounding, and if the amp was lacking highs then this choice of tubes would only make it worse.

[axpro]

As is usual, Jerry and Steve have it down.
You seem to be confusing modding the circuit, with replacing a faulty component. Without hearing a sound sample, we can't be 100% sure, but i do remember my 5150 being a little dark and overly gainy.

Transformers are a waste of money for this project, and i don't know if an Engl is going to fix your problem either. Trying a preamp tube in pos 1+2 that is known to be a little bright might be your thing.

As for the changes to your amp. I am not sure what all would be needed (been a long time since i looked at the schematic) but even changing out the slope resistor in the eq will give you a big change. or go old school and add a bright cap!

it's going to take you (or your tech) some trial and error. to mod it for brightness, and then let you hear the changes. and undo/change values.

[torpedoted]

well I try some new preamp tubes, I guess this amp just doesnt have the tone im looking for but hey guys I want to say thanks for all the info on the 5150 it helped me alot.

[axpro]

ROFL!


DON"T GIVE UP!!!!!!!

try some new tubes, something a little brighter, but as a few have said, modding that amp doesn't NEED to be a huge undertaking. changing a single resistor (like the slope resistor in the tone stack) will make MASSIVE changes. I don't reccomend going crazy rebuilding it from scratch with all the best parts, but subbing out a part or 2 is realtively easy, and reversable.

[torpedoted]

well for now ill keep what I have in their but later on in the future I will try out new tubes and changing out a resistor or two Im sure my amp tech can do it he actually did amp repairs for hawthorne heights so Im sure he knows what hes doin. I think the problem is with me ive been playing those line 6 amps for so long that I dont know what real tube tone sounds like. But hey man thanks again seriously I really needed all this info otherwise I probably would have done somthing stupid like selling the 5150 or what ever. but yea thanks again