Hand winders... do you get eye strain?

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Did your mother ever tell you that winding by hand would make you go blind? Mine never did. I might lead a more productive life if she had.

I've found that I can only do one bobbin at a time and have to take a break because of the eye strain of watching the wire traverse. Does anyone else have this problem? I have found that it helps to put paper behind the winder so that the wire stands out better instead of trying to make it out on the mess that is my work bench. I also use a desk top magnifying glass. Both of these things help, but I'm wondering if there are any other tricks out there.

Next thread: hairy palms.

[David Schwab]

I have paper behind the bobbin, a florescent magnifier lamp close to the work (just used as a lamp) and I wear a OptiSIGHT magnifying visor.

The hard part is having to look with only one eye to see the wire.

[Magnut]

"Use the Schwartz!"

I tend to look at the bobbin in general instead of the wire itself. I can see the line where the new wire is laying in and keep track of the coil shape at the same time. It helps to set the limits just shy of the flatwork or bobbin flange so you don't need to worry about skipping off.

I recently took apart a flat screen monitor. I wondered if I used the glass with the diffuser on it and lit up the ccfts if that would make a good base to put under the winder. I'll have to give it a try. Otherwise and nice blank paper does help.

Oh that reminds me, I also considered using a pulsed led like a strobe to have a look at the coil in motion. I think others have either tried this or talked about it. I gave up on it since it didn't seem necessary. But it would be interesting to hear about if anyone has tried it. Sounds like a headache waiting to happen.

[David King]

I put a swing arm lamp directly behind and above the coil so that the light reflects off the wire, I put a white card behind the pickup with some horizontal rules that I can use to reference the pile-ups on the coil.

It's my arms and shoulders that get tired, I never seem to find a comfortable, relaxed position with everything at the right height. I'd love to see how the rest of you have set up your winding benches. Do you sit? Stand? kneel? Lay prostrate?

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by Magnut

"Use the Schwartz!"

I tend to look at the bobbin in general instead of the wire itself. I can see the line where the new wire is laying in and keep track of the coil shape at the same time. It helps to set the limits just shy of the flatwork or bobbin flange so you don't need to worry about skipping off.

Me too. I'm looking at the general shape of the wire piling up on the bobbin.

Originally Posted by David King

I put a swing arm lamp directly behind and above the coil so that the light reflects off the wire, I put a white card behind the pickup with some horizontal rules that I can use to reference the pile-ups on the coil.

Same here. I have the lamp mounted on my winder stand, which is a small shelving unit. So I swing it over to the right when I'm winding, and then over the table I use for assembling and soldering etc.

I've used both white and black paper behind the winder. The black shows the refection on the wire better, but the white shows the general silo of the wire.

It's my arms and shoulders that get tired, I never seem to find a comfortable, relaxed position with everything at the right height. I'd love to see how the rest of you have set up your winding benches. Do you sit? Stand? kneel? Lay prostrate?

I sit. I have my winder on top of a small shelving unit, about desk height. I have the spool of wire on the floor in front of me. I'm able to keep my right hand on the front edge of the shelf while I feed. If you want to try uncomfortable, try doing that while keeping your left hand squeezing on a power drill trigger! That gets crampy after a while!

I'll take a picture of my winder after I get my work area tidied up.

[Joe Gwinn]

Originally Posted by Magnut

Oh that reminds me, I also considered using a pulsed led like a strobe to have a look at the coil in motion. I think others have either tried this or talked about it. I gave up on it since it didn't seem necessary. But it would be interesting to hear about if anyone has tried it. Sounds like a headache waiting to happen.

I built such a thing, only using a xenon flash (instead of a LED) triggered from an optical rotation sensor that also drives the turns counter. The flashing is not disturbing at normal winding speeds.

The traditional problem with LEDs is that they cannot make a bright enough short enough flash to freeze motion without lots of blurring. I haven't looked at today's LEDs, though.

How short must the flash be? If one winds at 1200 rpm (=20 rps) and the bobbin is 3" long (1.5" radius), the bobbin tip is moving at (1.5)(3.1416)(20)=94.25 inches per second.

A young person with 20/20 vision can resolve about one minute of arc (=0.0167 degrees). If the spinning bobbin is 16" from the eye, this is (16)(Tan[0.0167])= 0.0047", a little more than the thickness of a piece of 20# paper.

Given that we want to be able to see very fine wire, full resolution is needed.

At 94.25 ips, the bobbin tip will move 0.0047" in (0.0047)/(94.25)= 49.38 microseconds, call it 50 microseconds. Shorter than this doesn't make things clearer, but longer causes proportional blurring.

If I recall, my little homebrew AC powered xenon strobe has a pulsewidth of about 10 microseconds, largely because the pulses are very low power (for a xenon strobe), about 4 Joules (watt-seconds) per flash. At 20 flashes per second, that translates to 80 watts of DC power into the flashlamp. The luminous efficiency of a small flashlamp is perhaps 20%. The strobe light is bright enough to make the spinning bobbin well-lit.

If present-day white LEDs can handle 4 Joules per flash and generate say 100 microsecond flashes, it could work. At least for a while, as few LEDs can dissipate 80 watts for more than a few milliseconds, and bigger LEDs react more slowly.

[restorationad]

I cover one eye like a pirate and find myself saying "ARRRRGH" when I mess up.

I use most of the suggestions that everyone else uses except the strobe light.

I take a break after a 7000 - 10000 winds. Walk around use the other eye for something.
We recently did a small batch run and it was tough. This is why CNC scatterwinding would make sense.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by Joe Gwinn

The flashing is not disturbing at normal winding speeds.

A couple of days ago I was at a CVS pharmacy and at the counter they had one of these hand held laser scanners. I noticed that if I looked right at the scanner, I couldn't see the strobing, but if I caught it in my peripheral vision, I could see it quite plainly. So I started moving my eye to catch where the pulsing stopped, and it was a small area right near the center of vision.

Not exactly on topic, but I just found it really interesting.

[restorationad]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

A couple of days ago I was at a CVS pharmacy and at the counter they had one of these hand held laser scanners. I noticed that if I looked right at the scanner, I couldn't see the strobing, but if I caught it in my peripheral vision, I could see it quite plainly. So I started moving my eye to catch where the pulsing stopped, and it was a small area right near the center of vision.

Not exactly on topic, but I just found it really interesting.

It was better than my Pirate comment...

I guess you could use a SKU scanner.

[Magnut]

I've been playing around with some PWM ( pulse width modulation ) applications recently and some of that was with LEDs. You can get a good strobe effect though to match your exact frequency and have go completely off before turning on again may be difficult. It does pulse nicely though.

It may be possible to get it to match every 3rd revolution or some coefficient thereof.

Anyway having your work set up at the right height is very important. I find myself slouching sometimes and have to catch myself and make adjustments. If my eyes get fatigued I will just do some other part of the process and come back later.

[automan]

I put a laptop computer behind my winder. Not only can I keep up with IRC while winding, but the refresh rate of the screen somehow makes it very easy to see not only the wire moving back and forth, but also how both sides of the bobbin are building up. If your bobbin is just the tiniest bit off center, you can watch the upper side build as well as the lower side (relative to the off center axis.)

[cryptozoo]

Good lighting, white sheet or paper in the background and the occasional squint should get you done alright. Some of the methods seem a little overboard -- dude's trying to wind, not have a seizure.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

It sounds like everyone is doing about the same thing I'm doing. I do close one eye and that does help a lot, except when it is time to open my eye! Having my hand over the eye seems to help with the strain because I'll tend to squint a bit with the other eye. Maybe an eye patch would help? It just means I can't let anyone take pictures of a "shop tour"... though I might have the shanty song guitar player market cornered.

I've experimented with different colors of paper - a complimentary color of the wire seems to work well, (think back to the color wheels in elementary school art class for those of us not as inclined) though I don't always have lots of colors handy. I've also noticed the SPN often comes in some strange colors, I wonder if buying specific colors will save my sight a bit. I'm also hoping that when summer comes I'll have a bit more natural light to help me out.

I'm usually watching the wire and the angle at which it approaches the bobbin. The bobbin sometimes wants to grab the wire and build it in places I don't want it to build, so I'm usually checking that it is progressing side to side evenly. If I want to see how it is building over all I just slow it way down. I have a foot controller so that isn't tough to do.

For posture, I don't have too many problems thus far. I have a pretty deep work bench. The winder sits at the back on some scrap 2x4, I have a guide bar like the schatten in front of it, and I have a homemade spool holder that sits sort of teetering on the edge of the bench. I am hunched over the spool a bit as I wind. It sounds uncomfortable (and it is a bit) but it is handy because by anchoring my elbows on the bench I get better control of the wire. I also have towels lying all over the place to keep large loops of wire from catching on things and breaking. Ultimately I'd like to set something up that'll give more distance between the spool and the winder without me having to hunch or allow me to use a chair, but this has worked okay so far.

I wonder if the old factory hand winders just went blind or if they coped. I've noticed reading glasses in a lot of pictures I've seen, but other than that I'm not sure what is different.

Thanks for the tips!

[automan]

I put my wire on a kitchen sized trashcan I have upside down in front of my stool. I taped over the edge of my bench with blue tape so the wire doesn't get caught in the carpet my bench is covered in.

[Possum]

I have real bad eyesight so I have a lamp directly over the bobbin on a gooseneck with a 100 watt flourescent bulb. You have to move the light around to get the best viewing, sometimes high overhead and more behind the coil works best. I stop now and then to make sure its not building up on the ends or something. I did mess around with a strobe but the one I tried just doesn't put out enough light and I started to see God after five minutes :-) I notice that Tom Holmes set he does the same thing as I do but he has a mirror under his coil, I tried that but does nothing for me, maybe he's bouncing light with it?

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by FunkyKikuchiyo

Did your mother ever tell you that winding by hand would make you go blind?

Next thread: hairy palms.

Erm... are you SURE you're talking 'bout winding PICKUPS...?

[Mark Hammer]

I wind my pickups with the spool on the floor, facing upwards, so that the wire unwinds vertically. The bobbin sits attached to the chuck of a hand-drill that is clamped to the counter/bench-top.. I look downwards at the bobbin spinning like a propeller and the spool below it, and tension the wire with thumb and index of my left hand, while I crank the handle with my right. I use a black swatch of that "fun foam" you can buy from the hobby/crafts store, and stick it under neath the spool, so that when I look down it is all against a black background. Makes everything I need to see easily visible. A piece of black bristol board would probably work just as well.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by FunkyKikuchiyo

I wonder if the old factory hand winders just went blind or if they coped. I've noticed reading glasses in a lot of pictures I've seen, but other than that I'm not sure what is different.

You really don't need to see the wire as you wind except at the traverse stops. Otherwise you just need to see the coil shape as it's building.

[Joe Gwinn]

Originally Posted by FunkyKikuchiyo

I do close one eye and that does help a lot, except when it is time to open my eye! Having my hand over the eye seems to help with the strain because I'll tend to squint a bit with the other eye. Maybe an eye patch would help?

Drug stores sell cheap eye patches. Many eye aliments disable the eye during treatment, and it's best to enure that the crippled eye isn't used until it has fully healed.

Joe Gwinn

[Possum]

Traditionally in sweat shops young girls were put to work sewing, probably for winding coils too, just look at photos of Leo's winding girls. If you use a piece of white paper and get enough light on it and the back edge of the coil you can see the wire pretty well.

[cryptozoo]

If you're going to go the eye-patch route, make sure alternate which eye you keep the patch on. You don't want to end up with a lazy.

[frankfalbo]

Originally Posted by cryptozoo

If you're going to go the eye-patch route, make sure alternate which eye you keep the patch on. You don't want to end up with a lazy.

You mean you guys don't wind two coils at a time, with one eye on each wire? I'll bet if you focused right, you'd see both wires as one wire, highlighting any deviations in pattern from one coil to the next. Double your productivity!

Kidding aside I can wink both eyes, so I don't use a patch, but I wear contacts, and when you re-open an eye it takes a few blinks to reset the contact. In between those two moments I'm using the force.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

ah yes, Jedi pickup winding.... I've been playing around with this, but I didn't want to reveal this until I had a marketable product.

I think some of my problems might be because of the lasik surgery I had years ago. A common side effect of the surgery is being more aware of unsteady/flickering lights. I'm not quite sure why, but the quality of my vision changes more dramatically with different kinds of light. I may experiment with the type of bulb in my work light, I've always found full spectrum bulbs (the kind they try to sell to SAD patients) to be great at the work bench.

Remember, we must use our powers of luthiery for good instead of evil...

[StarryNight]

I've got a $12 swing lamp with a magnifier on it (2 actually). I works great for winding or especially soldering after winding as my eyes have a hard time focusing after staring intensly for so long.