string core breakage occurs at intonation saddle, why?

[hewo]

does anyone know the reason why the 24 roundwound pure nickel wrap string core breakage occurs right at the intonation saddle ?

i have not seen this occur and was wondering if anyone knows the real reason.

i had thought maybe, excessive plucking at this area might be over-doing the string's capability to handle this proximity stress.

responses are welcome.
thanks.

[Steve A.]

does anyone know the reason why the 24 roundwound pure nickel wrap string core breakage occurs right at the intonation saddle ?

i have not seen this occur and was wondering if anyone knows the real reason.

i had thought maybe, excessive plucking at this area might be over-doing the string's capability to handle this proximity stress.

responses are welcome.
thanks.

hewo:

I have not run across that problem myself. Perhaps you can give us more information like what brand and the name of the set that you use. Also, is the core round or hex shaped, and what is it made of.

The problem could alternately be with the bridge and saddle. So we need to know what brand guitar and the name of the model as well as the brand and style of the bridge with all of the details. Your playing style and type of pick used is also important. BTW does this guitar have a whammy bar that you use regularly?

Once you supply that information we may be able to help you with this problem.

Steve Ahola

P.S. I'm not sure if this is applicable for a 24W string but for the plain strings if one of them breaks right at the saddle I will dress it just a little piece with folded emery paper. If I do that every time the string breaks there, the problem goes away. (I can't see how the core could be damaged by a small burr on the saddle.)

One other thought: if you have a Tune-A-Matic bridge and matching tailpiece, sometimes when you lower the tailpiece for more sustain it can make the angle of the string going over the saddle too sharp.
The 24W is pretty much the smallest wound string used on an electric guitar. So the core and wrap would be the smallest of all of your wound strings and it would be more likely to break.

[David Schwab]

What Steve said.

Usually it's caused by a rough spot in the saddle's groove.

And if it is a Tune-o-matic having the tailpiece all the way down also causes problems and does not increase sustain at all. I've seen TOM bridges collapse from that as well as the tailpiece studs pulling out of the body.

[Gibsonman63]

We used to take the stop piece on a tune-o-matic bridge setup and screw it all the way to the body of the guitar and then wrap the strings over the top. Supossedly, you get better sustain without creating too much angle going over the bridge saddles... We the sustain part is supossed, not the angle part.

The strings will leave marks on the stop piece. If that is an issue for you, you may want to buy a replacement and keep the original in the case.

[hewo]

thank you everybody for your responses.

1. i carefully inspected the channel in that saddle and it's pristine (20X magnification).

2. the strings were all tossed and replaced with a pack of "kaman electr-2ix 6 double play process tm 5135 nickel electric extra light $2.99 " that i had stored in my garage closet. must be really old stuff based on that price sticker.

3. the kaman's are cylindrical core but the pure nickel wrap darco (martin's) roundwound extralight's were hex core. i verified this using the magnification viewer (sunvisor type, my eyes are getting old).

4. the guitar is a "sunburst archtop" korean slammer series by hamer and is dated 94. it is rather well setup. the pickups were changed. the stop bar tailpiece is in fact bottomed and has been this way since 94.

5. the darco set went on in 94. but still it shouldn't have failed. guitar designed considerations for cyclic fatigue cycles, preload tension, traction over the saddle, assure us that the core should not break. otherwise design would have changed (evolved).

6. a view the fractured surface under the sem and photography of the "necking" of the diameter where failure occurred could possibly tell the mode of failure. at the separation, in the centre of the core would be the key as the appearance would be different if cyclic fatigue initiated embrittlement as opposed to "taffy" like appearance of an axial stretch failure.

7. string breakage caused me a great distress. i did not have a spare guitar. consequently i ended up dancing on stage for an hour! our lead guitarist tossed me a fender pack but i did not want to change out the string being uncertain of compatibility under setup conditions. the impact of a broken string during performance must be prepared for - this is my lesson to learn from this experience.

[defaced]

I love it, SEM string breaking analysis. I wish I still had one of those at my disposal (with EDS). What fun they are.

But yea, I think you could tell the fracture mode provided the end of the string isn't gunked up from contaminants.

[hewo]

mike,

1. we would agitate the specimen in an ultrasonic tank using proper solution.
2. then we'd mount it to the specimen substrate, sputter palladium over it's surfaces and then view it.
3. after that if etching was necessary (to inspect for voids and or ingredients not suppose to be in the mixture recipe metal) we'd view the grain boundaries as they can reveal a wealth of information as to what has happened.
4. i believe the string broke because of too much applied plucking near the intonation saddle. common sense dictates that the forces (stress) acting would mount appreciably (twice normal expected values). repeating such torture would likely fail it as steve pointed it is a rather thin core without much protective wrap bulk to buffer the impinging saddle.
5. imagine. this is actually where the energy of the vibrating string transfers a portion of energy into the guitar structure. were you to monitor the structure of it's energy "felt" this would reflect that portion of energy transferred out of the string and into the structure. an infinitely rigid structure with infinite mass would claim zero imparted transfer energy from the string.

[David Schwab]

We used to take the stop piece on a tune-o-matic bridge setup and screw it all the way to the body of the guitar and then wrap the strings over the top. Supossedly, you get better sustain without creating too much angle going over the bridge saddles... We the sustain part is supossed, not the angle part.

You don't get better sustain with the stop tail all the way down. You also don't get more sustain with the strings running through the body.

It's a myth based on nothing. Increasing the pressure on the saddles also wont increase sustain. If you think about it, there is no reason why it would work.

More than anything else, sustain is a factor with how stiff the neck is, and secondly the energy of the string not being absorbed by the body/neck.

I had to repair a $10,000 LP Stringer that had one of the tail piece studs pull out because someone screwed it all the way down to the body. It's not how that bridge system was meant to work.

But getting back to the original post, string breakage at the saddle is always caused by a burr in the groove, or a poorly shaped groove, even if you can't see it.

Just sand it smooth with some 400 grit and it will be fine.

I often pick my strings REALLY hard with extra heavy picks, and I never break strings unless the saddle grove is funky. I haven't broken a string in about 8 years.

[axpro]

Hey Hewo,

whats the break angle like? and what is the string tuned to. If there is no Burr, but the core is breaking, it could be due to excessive break angle ont he TOM. if it hits the "flat" side of the bridge saddle first, instead of the sloped side, that can also be a problem, especially when you have a sharp break angle.

I come across this fairly often with players who have TOM/STOPTAIL setups, and lower the stoptail tight against the body trying to increase sustain. If you look at the pro players who do that (like Zakk Wylde) they routinely bring the strings up and over the stoptail, to reduce break angle on the string, while keeping the tailpiece tight against the body

[Steve Conner]

I don't break strings often, but when they do let go, they always break at the saddles, on every guitar and bass I've owned. I usually change the whole set when one finally goes.

I think smallish saddle points give better tone. I don't like PRS's wrap-around stoptail thing where the strings go into big grooves for about 3/4", I think it dulls the tone, and they make dark-sounding guitars already.

If you've had the same strings since 1994, that's incredible. Do you play that guitar often?

[axpro]

If you've had the same strings since 1994, that's incredible. Do you play that guitar often?

lol


all my PRS guitars (save one) are trem equipped. I don't actually "use" the trem...ever.... but i like the difference in midrange tone versus a wrap around hardtail.
Last 2 or three times i broke strings, it was at the headstock... mind you, that covers about 4 years for me.... many guitars+non acidic sweat= strings go dead far before i break them.

[Gibsonman63]

I am lucky if I get four gigs out of a set of strings. I did seven outdoor gigs last July here in Houston. I was changing strings weekly on my main guitar and every other week on my back-up and my tune-down guitar.

That being said, the fingers do move better in warm weather than inthe cold.

[axpro]

I am lucky if I get four gigs out of a set of strings. I did seven outdoor gigs last July here in Houston. I was changing strings weekly on my main guitar and every other week on my back-up and my tune-down guitar.

That being said, the fingers do move better in warm weather than inthe cold.

Waitasecond, you southern boys MOVE your fingers?!?!?!?



Like i said, LOTS of guitars, non acidic sweat, and currently not gigging. I had 5 guitars at my band practice space so i wouldn't have to play one all night lol! But sincei am a guitar tech, i tend to play heavily customized guitars i build myself.... rebuilding a horrible garbage guitar into somethign sweet only costs time, since i have lots of pickups and parts laying around....

[Gibsonman63]

Kind of funny, really. If you watch closely, the Reverend Billy G never seems to move his fingers. But between the open tunings and the hybrid picking, he has a lot going on that's hard to see.

[David Schwab]

I think smallish saddle points give better tone. I don't like PRS's wrap-around stoptail thing where the strings go into big grooves for about 3/4", I think it dulls the tone, and they make dark-sounding guitars already.

It's the pickups. I play in a band with a guy that has two PRS guitars, and they sound nice and twangy unplugged. The pickups are dark sounding.

The material the bridge is made from will alter the tone, but not the way the strings are anchored. Lighter bridges made from aluminum sound brighter than something heavy like brass. Brass is dull sounding.

I'm lucky that my hands don't sweat ever, so I can keep strings on guitars for almost a year. But I like fresh sounding strings better.

[Steve Conner]

Cr@p! I'm sorry David, I don't know how I did that. I think I hit "Edit" instead of "quote". Hopefully tboy won't bitchslap me.

Anyway, You're probably right. Mine is a McCarty with covered humbuckers, and compared to other guitars I've owned with humbuckers, they sound like someone stuffed a sock in them.

At the risk of going OT, I'd like to hear your opinion on what would be some good replacements. Maybe I need one of you guys to make me a new kickass set of pickups

[hewo]

1. thanks for reminding me to respond on some details worth mentioning in this discussion.

2. the discussion is correct regarding sustain and not releasing the string's energy into the dissipating structure, mind you, the structure could conceivably be non-dissipating, in which case we'd have a resonance over that sonic range. it's analogous to the guitar's treble dump resonating because the pickup's inductance is tuned with the capacitor's capacitance, in short, constructive feedback. i saw on television, suspension type highway bridges and also utility company high voltage transmission lines resonating with the "tuned" driving force, wind, resulting in over-excursions and sadly, failure.

3. yeah, a string providing service since 1994 is rather extended. most of my guitars are like that - don't fix 'em till something goes screwy. i did change out the whole set of strings. i use only five, like richards with the same tuning, so the 24W is actually at concert pitch D as in standard guitar tuning. the other important piece of information to provide is the pick material. it is rather flexible yet highly resilient. i cut it out of some kind of high voltage reinforced insulating sheeting used to insulate the metal flooring within high voltage electronic steel enclosures. i think it's glass reinforced because my scissors gets dull cutting it, and the nickel wrap also gets worn from the abrade. i favor pick material flexibility as it assists greatly for high speed strums, e.g., elton john's bitch is back. but for plucking singular notes, i have to depress my thumb a bit to bow the pick as this enables stiffening of the pick for harder striking.

4. in regards to the acute break-over angle, both, at nut and saddle, tendency is for "pillowing" of the string set, where the strings actually "puff" out from these two endpoints, until truly broken in. you can verify this by measuring the clearance (air) between the last fret and string underside. once fully broken in, an actual vertex is set into the string's core. that vertex actually helps keep the string in tune, assuming the structure and anchoring does not fluctuate. it's highly desirable to achieve a state where you need not have to tune. it is contingent with operating the strings within their elastic range. temperature and moisture extreme will be about the only variables to deal with, well, maybe not so much for that parker carbon fiber stuff.

5. i don't have any problems voicing the strings with "aliveness" regardless of age and minor oxidation. in other words, the lusciousness is already overly sufficient because of the vacuum tube's even ordered harmonics. i quickly realized this with excessive "aliveness" from elixir's product, especially when you intentionally work the strings toward this end. not all vacuum tube circuits have such capabilities and i believe all of you do appreciate those that possess it. sound is everything, it brings people's ears into the mix because it is pleasure. i see all these folks out there wearing some kind of apple product listening device. but they are not in pleasure as the ones i see during presentation. the beauty of it is it's perpetuation. good sound makes you play more, and better. in discussion was talk of "dark" sounds. those signatures are not self-rewarding. why they occur is another story, and often complex. good sound is a must, for musical furtherance and enlightenment. the science and technology behind all of it is not new. while true it is getting better, those instances are usually for professional advertisement and theatre soundtrack.

6. i will again take another magnified inspection of that 24W saddle on the slammer series hamer. i did see impressions set in by the nickel spiral wrap but hose impressions are insignificantly shallow. the objective is to confirm whether there is any type of burr (factory mass manufacturing) or edge that would induce breakage. it would be too premature to start carving away at the groove. in fact, a jig is necessary to retain and preserve the let-off definition during dressing. otherwise clarity would be compromised.

[Chuck H]

+1 with whomever it was discussing break angle. Look into that. But...

That particular string is the one that gets the most wanking in most styles of pop and rock music. When I replace strings on my giutars it's usually because a G string broke. I'll sometimes replace plain E (1st) without a string change as I break that most often. But the G is a close second and I believe it's because of the extra abuse it takes.

JM2C

Chuck

[Steve Conner]

Man, what are you smoking?! And if it makes strings last 16 years, can I have some too?

If a string breaks after 16 years, I don't think that's news worth writing about. Strings are consumables. If it broke after 16 power chords, then I'd be examining my saddles under a microscope.

I'd like to know more about your high-voltage fiberglass picks, though...

[axpro]

Well Hewo, you've certainly passed the "Mr Science" portion of the essay.

But real world tests are sometimes different than what the lab comes back with.

Old strings+ break angle (DOES matter in structural sound-ness) + possible burr or at least wearing in the saddle (some 400-600 sandpaper does wonders for that without noticable wearing parts too prematurely)

THis all equals increased Breakage. Maybe your fiddles stay fine, and you take care of them, but I do 10-12 setups a day on average, everything from bad import stuff, to PRS to martin acoustics. I see a LOT of problems, and have to correct them in a real world way... if i don't correct them and my fix doesn't work, i have a customer back at my door wanting free warranty work (which i do!) on their repair.

Real world tests point to a few fixes, which have been mentioned over and over. I've sat with a magnefying glass and inspected a saddle, and seen nothing, yet smoothing it over with some 600 grit stopped string breakage.

Up to you my friend.

[David Schwab]

Cr@p! I'm sorry David, I don't know how I did that. I think I hit "Edit" instead of "quote". Hopefully tboy won't bitchslap me.

You know I do that all the time! I swear that either I click on "quote" and it goes to edit, or that the buttons move on me when I'm not looking!

But it's easy to fix.

Anyway, You're probably right. Mine is a McCarty with covered humbuckers, and compared to other guitars I've owned with humbuckers, they sound like someone stuffed a sock in them.

At the risk of going OT, I'd like to hear your opinion on what would be some good replacements. Maybe I need one of you guys to make me a new kickass set of pickups

I had a guy bring me a brand new bolt on PRS when they first started making their own pickups. It had the "vintage bass" and "HFS" pickups. The neck pickup was really dark, like someone put a blanket over the amp. The bridge pickup barked and had no tone. These pickups did not have covers.

We replaced them with Duncan Alnico II Pros, and it became a great sounding guitar.

The newer PRS pickups sound a bit better, but not by a whole lot. Also metal covers will always alter the tone, generally flattening the resonant peak and making them mellower sounding. I put the cover back on the neck pickup on my Les Paul because I liked what it did to that pickup (a Shaw humbucker), but generally I really dislike the tone you get from covers. It takes the top end off.

People started taking the covers off of humbuckers for a reason. They are in fashion now, but that's never a good reason for anything.

[David Schwab]

3. yeah, a string providing service since 1994 is rather extended. most of my guitars are like that - don't fix 'em till something goes screwy. i did change out the whole set of strings.

You are forgetting that the metal fatigues and will not last forever.

i favor pick material flexibility as it assists greatly for high speed strums, e.g., elton john's bitch is back. but for plucking singular notes, i have to depress my thumb a bit to bow the pick as this enables stiffening of the pick for harder striking.

Flexible picks slow you down. You have to wait for the pick to snap back to position. You might think you can strum faster, but with the right grip on a heavy pick, you can strum faster and play single note runs faster than with any flexible pick. And they don't sound wimpy either. I use the purple Tortex 1.14mm picks. Flexible picks cause poor picking hand technique.

4. in regards to the acute break-over angle, both, at nut and saddle, tendency is for "pillowing" of the string set, where the strings actually "puff" out from these two endpoints, until truly broken in.

Strings are very stiff at their anchor points, and behave more like a rod. This is the basis behind the compensated nuts, such as Earvanna and the Buzz Feiten system.

You need to bend you new string a bit over the witness point to get it to seat well, but except for stretching your new strings, no further break in occurs.

5. i don't have any problems voicing the strings with "aliveness" regardless of age and minor oxidation.

You are forgetting that the metal wears out and the outer wraps get dents from the frets. You need to change strings more often. The string's core also stretches and has to be retuned back to pitch, and then it will stretch again over time, etc. Eventually you have to tighten it more.

in other words, the lusciousness is already overly sufficient because of the vacuum tube's even ordered harmonics. i quickly realized this with excessive "aliveness" from elixir's product,

Those are pretty dull sounding strings in my option.

And tubes produce ODD order harmonics. People get it mixed up.

In the end listen to the guitar unplugged. Does it sound good?

I think you are over analyzing things and drawing the wrong conclusions. Your string broke because it was old and you probably have a scared saddle. Those also aren't the best set of strings on the market IMO.

[hewo]

the neighborhood children call it diesel, i don't understand why that name applies though. it's roughly four bills for a zee. it's just that children have extreme adjustability, not like old farts who get inundated.

the insulation came out of a high voltage power supply, i think for a military communications equipment. it's translucent with high grade finish.

it takes time to cut it using the scissors because you need to ensure no snags are present, otherwise it'll catch the thin strings and it won't break but your wrist will come to a halt. that's because it's like ply-board with cross grain reinforcement. it can not tear.

long ago in guitar player magazine i recall some type of punch that would ease pick manufacturing for mass production. stamping out fiberglass reinforced epoxy impregnated sheeting would necessitate carbide dies and likely dull rather quickly still yet.

somebody should go and make a business of it. it's doable and the demand for it will perpetuate since it's more resilient thus responsive. that u2 guitarist should try it and feedback evaluation. he's pretty whippy.

[hewo]

1. you are conservatively correct to heed trouble, potential trouble.
2. consider that the integrated tensional force acting decreases as load bearing metal decreases, i.e., the cross sectional area of all the metal carrying the tension.
3. you already understand that a 005 and a 010 at concert E pitch will yield different tensions. combine this with slack key tuning, which effectively lowers tension from the standardized concert tuning, and you will have "rubbery", rather, "flubbery" string tension. then again, combine this with a shorter scale and the flubbery syndrome prevails even more.
4. that's why you see all those compensatory improvisations, frequently extending tension length, e.g. string thru the body, badass wrap around ball stops, trapeze extension or the notorious gibson stop bar tailpiece. they'll also compensate similarly at the headstock to gain additional non-participatory string length. it all boils down to that famous vibrating string equation that links parameters of lateral displacement, length, frequency, tension force, diameter, material elastic coefficient, and so forth, altogether, damping set aside.
5. so what i am getting at is this. elevate force by increasing diameter, increasing length, increasing pitch, increasing deflection and you will more than likely risk breakage. the belief that heavier duty strings will decrease breakage is a misnomer because the material, metal, still retains intrinsic mechanical properties. the impinging saddle force onto the string increases yet it is the same metal properties withstanding a smaller impinging force for a more limber "rubbery" string brought about by a shorter length, smaller diameter, lower pitch, well you get the picture.
6. this concept is kind of reversed from what we'd normally grasp as "bigger is better". a good example is substituting a 25 watt power resistor for a 10 watt cathode bias resistor. here, bigger is actually better. it'll run cooler and it's resistivity won't thermally fluctuate, as much as the ten watt power resistor.
7. last, that discussion on "dead" strings owing to wrap decoupling actually deserves some commentary. you all understand that "working" that string causes eventual damping. but also consider the metal ages as well as fatigues, and so being, intrinsic properties drift. the core gets hardened and i believe the wrap too. this ultimately effects a lowered tension for the same pitch, maybe not substantial, but nevertheless, tension goes down. at the endpoints of tension, diameter necks downwards, slightly, but nevertheless it decreases. i think it was called the poisson ratio for conservation of volume. so once again, the "flubbery" characteristic unfolds itself by default when you don't change strings. i use to enjoy the aliveness of sound from a freshly installed phosphorus bronze set. later i realized, with age, the alloy embrittles causing another desirable sound, but that's contingent on the wrap not decoupling from excessive "working".
8. that $2.99 kaman set didn't even stretch an iota! i didn't tune once since installing it. that means it's stable, both, structure and $2.99 metals.

[Steve Conner]

We replaced them with Duncan Alnico II Pros, and it became a great sounding guitar.

Oh no, my local music store has the Alnico II Pros in stock, too. I got my McCarty in about 2003, I don't know if that corresponds to their "bad pickup period". I wanted to keep the guitar stock, but it's now old enough (and the frets worn enough) that I wouldn't feel bad about modding it.

The neck pickup I like, and both pickups together I like too, but the bridge I've never been able to get a good tone out of. The best sounding humbucker guitar I ever played was a Fylde Pack Leader that I found in a junk shop! The frets were starting to spring and I didn't know how to fix it, so I gave it to my brother and he sold it on Ebay, you can read the rest of the story here:
www.whitstableguitars.co.uk - 1977 Pack Leader

I still kick myself about it, because that guitar cost me $70, it sounded better than a PRS, and I now realise a good luthier could have made it play well again for less than the cost of a PRS

the insulation came out of a high voltage power supply, i think for a military communications equipment. it's translucent with high grade finish....

that's because it's like ply-board with cross grain reinforcement. it can not tear.

Hmm... Is it hard and springy like a credit card? If so, it's probably FR4 fiberglass, the same stuff that high grade printed circuit boards are made of, just without the copper cladding. It's super-strong and pretty hard to cut with scissors!

If it's softer, more papery, it's probably Nomex paper, similar to the stuff racing drivers' fireproof suits are made from.

Either way sounds like interesting stuff to make picks out of...

[axpro]

Ummmm, Hewo

If you are such an expert at all things stringed..... why did you post a question?

You obviously live in a magical land where strings don't stretch EVER after install. and you OBVIOUSLY know more than everyone here, so why post so much gibberish?

like

5. so what i am getting at is this. elevate force by increasing diameter, increasing length, increasing pitch, increasing deflection and you will more than likely risk breakage. the belief that heavier duty strings will decrease breakage is a misnomer because the material, metal, still retains intrinsic mechanical properties. the impinging saddle force onto the string increases yet it is the same metal properties withstanding a smaller impinging force for a more limber "rubbery" string brought about by a shorter length, smaller diameter, lower pitch, well you get the picture.

Is a helluva long and overly complex way of saying

Heavier strings aren't necessarily more break resistant, due to increased tension. despite thoughts to the latter

and THAT being said, I don't remember anyone commenting on your use of thin strings! Maybe crappy strings, but not thin.

I for one, am done, you can keep spouting off like a failed physics professor all you like.

[Steve Conner]

Axpro, even if you're done debating string breakage, I'd still be grateful to hear your $.02 on PRS pickups

[David Schwab]

Oh no, my local music store has the Alnico II Pros in stock, too. I got my McCarty in about 2003, I don't know if that corresponds to their "bad pickup period". I wanted to keep the guitar stock, but it's now old enough (and the frets worn enough) that I wouldn't feel bad about modding it.

Alnico II Pros are great pickups. The guy I play with has two brand new PRS Custom 24s. They are brighter than the older PRS pickups I have heard, but he thinks they are kind of muddy. He wants to replace the bridge with a JB (muddy, but loud). He also replaced the rotary switches with toggle switches on both guitars.

Why keep the guitar stock? Do you want to sell it or play it? Too many people get hung up on resale value. I see people worrying about that with Squiers!

If it's softer, more papery, it's probably Nomex paper, similar to the stuff racing drivers' fireproof suits are made from.

It could be fish paper, or thin phenolic.

Either way sounds like interesting stuff to make picks out of...

It's kind of hard to beat Delrin (Tortex) or Ultem (Ultex). They both work really well for picks.

I have a real interesting pick made from hard rubber. They are Guitar Craft picks as used by Robert Fripp. A little too small for my taste, but real interesting material. Thin yet vert stiff.

| | | Guitar Craft Guitars | | |



I used to use this back in the 70's:



Stainless steel!

[Steve Conner]

Stainless steel!

I guess that's one way of dealing with covered humbuckers... Grind the covers off with your plectrum of doom!

I remember the old anodized aluminium Tech picks, the metal wore down and left black residue all over my fingers. Right now I'm using a Big Stubby or my fingers. Not because the Big Stubby is my favourite but because I've lost all the other ones and need to buy more.

You're right of course, I bought it to play it, and have played it at least every other day since. And the resale value of a PRS probably isn't that mindblowing anyway. (mine isn't even a 10 top! ) Alnico 2 Pro for the bridge it is, I think!

Oh, and I didn't know Tortex picks were made of Delrin. Interesting fact :-)

[hewo]

no, no.
the sheet is ultra thin, like that three by five rolodex cards.
otherwise it wouldn't flex.
regarding pickups, yes, you have to consider interaction with the vacuum tube amplifier.
too much magnetism and too much windings makes undesirable performance.
the windings and magnetism has to be perfecto.
i tried bill Lawrence's old old humbucker and got exceptional results. trouble is you can't send the magnets back to the magnet laboratory to revitalize them because the construction is encapsulated, unlike gibson's humbuckers that can be carefully disassembled.
the other good results i discovered was the gibson melody maker's pickup and the gibson's l6s pickups. i wish they'd make these again today so i could get more of them to install into the other guitars. the melody maker's pickup is quite slender having a continuous aperture rather than discrete poles. i placed the aperture at the imaginary 24th fret and received fantastic telecaster performance out of the single cutaway nightwatch. some forum pickup maker made me a p90'ish slender coil like the melody makers dimensions which i mounted for the o'hagan's rear. that pickup maker sure knows what he's doing - it snarls extremely well like the original gibson p90. i recall he's out of canada and supposedly renown. i requested his assistance because the o'hagan utilizes a schaller wrap-around anchor bridge whose string spacing just doesn't sync with the industry standard pole pieces. it would have been better to have that p90'ish pickup with blades but who knows, maybe something else would change and the resultant performance would be less than desired.
i did send the alnico of the melody maker pickup back to some mainland lab who revitalized it. apparently alnico gets old, more so if it gets corrupted by magnetizing other masses or worse interacting improperly with other magnets. the increased performance from revitalization is extreme clarity, that unique coherent telecaster presence. it cuts through the mix and is highly favored under edged saturation vacuum tube configuration.

[hewo]

i was explaining the reason behind why larger cross sectional load bearing metal would fail.
i think most folks don't make the connection that the intrinsic metal properties don't change no matter how you change cross sectional area.
and it is the limitation of the material, from such intrinsic properties, which ultimately is responsible for failure, under the imposed conditions.
while true i could have summarized as you have. but an inquisitive mind possibly would question why this is so.
i suppose that's the difference between science and practice, viewpoints.
science can yield betterment in a different way to that of practice.
but still, both modes toward betterment are driven by desire to cure or improve on a matter.
take for example that dead-ended high tension conductor spiraled around the feeble signal conductor of the incoming guitar signal within the amplifier. practitioners would not dream of tinkering with such intention to isolate the feeble guitar signal from external corruption within the chassis. but the faraday's cage principle applies in the scientific world and it can be applied, by intent, to obtain a desired effect. the principle behind it's workings is of science. it's application is afforded through the knowledge of why and how it works.

[axpro]

Axpro, even if you're done debating string breakage, I'd still be grateful to hear your $.02 on PRS pickups

lol, i saw this and had to at least give you THAT info.... looks like professor science is spouting off again though....

10 lines of text to say "I disagree with your simplified view" blegh

As to PRS pickups, the McCartys tend to be underwhelming. i agree that the neck is good, both together is ok (cause the neck is good) and i never liked the bridge. for the classic Gibson-y thing, Alnico pro ii's would be a really good choice. I tried a set of them and liked it, and i had a JB in the bridge for a while too.

The only other pickups i put in a McCarty were the Eric Johnson customs, which are a low gain option to make your LP sound more likea gretsch... they were kinda cool... but i am gretsch fan.

I had a few McCartys, a couple of McCarty Rosewoods and few McCarty soapbars... never kept any of them. took me YEARS to realize the big issue for me was the sound attributed to the hardtail bridge. I love their trem equipped guitars, something about what having a trem installed does to the midrange response. I never use the trems, and usually add an extra spring so it doesn't shift under heavy bending.

Sold a lot of my PRS gear off over the last few years... but still have a couple of customs, Singlecut trems, and an artist HBII. as well as a few heavily modified import models. Truth be told i like their Dragon pickups a lot (though they quit making dragon I's) and thats what is in most of them (even my Hollowbody... with a 5 way rotary too)

The only PRS i really wish i still had was a first run 513 with a solid rosewood neck. great guitar, but the wife needed a new car

[hewo]

1. flexing dramatically reduces forces acting, upon both my hand and the string. it's analogous to the "whiplash" effect of the compound bow used in archery. do consider energy is being momentarily stored within that fiberglass flex and will recover when it whacks on the opposite stroke. but timing is involved.
2. forces acting affect your response. so in the case of a reactionary force imparted onto your hand, you must compensate by imparting more force.
3. this in turn, turns into a vicious cycle until the string is overwhelmed by "brute" force control by the over-powering hand.
4. when you think about it, the string is being "brutalized" because of this.
5. the string should be operated in it's "sweet" spot, i.e., not overly stressed.
6. this way, the metal won't have the tendency to change.
7. same with fretting it. just pressurize it to obtain that "sweet" response, no more. furthering it will only accelerate wear and tear. and as you already advised, this necessitates changing strings.
8. my rule of thumb is don't change it until the intonation strays off. there is a definite stability period whereby intonation remains very acceptable over the life of the string. in the very beginning and very tail end of life you may notice intonation imperfection. but other than that i just leave it be. to set intonation i strung and idled the instrument about three months under actual tension conditions. this allowed the strings to equalize into what they'd be. you have to re-tension all with every adjustment, and, you have to relax a particular before even attempting to make an adjustment. it is time consuming but the process works. care must be made not to impart any imperfections onto each string. you mentioned fret indentations. well that is an imparted imperfection, greater if pressurized by "brute" force.
9. those break-over angles eventually fade away and the string will take on a true vertex in lieu of the "pillowing" discussed. yes you can demand that defined vertex sooner by forcing it. but i don't because doing so will lead to metals properties inhomogenity along the length of the string, something that doesn't fit well with desired vibrational characteristics.
10. the wear and tear can be optimally reduced without sacrificing playability or output. big wide frets disperse fretting pressure. a stable guitar structure and setup reduces unnecessary compensatory re-tensioning. pick attack and fingering, too, can be controlled so as to operate the string only within it's "sweet" spot, essentially it's elastic envelope. recall the metals intrinsic properties do not change, well, with cyclic fatigue it does, but that's under the condition whereby you extend applied force beyond elasticity margins, over and over, again and again.
11. in a nutshell, yes you can reap maximum longevity out of the strings. but to do so, you can't bear down with passionate excitement which players just love to do. instead, you have to be conscious of what you're doing to those strings, always, remembering how easily damaged they are. it can be done and the output music still savored.
12. in regards to manufacturing quality, no, i must say that those united states strings are okay, run of the mill as they are. the metallurgy of cores and wraps does affect performance, but it's minuscule in comparison to what the vacuum tube waveform shaping can do. manufacturing process control is crucial though as wrap must be integral with core, absolutely! likewise, consistency is paramount, otherwise intonation would be afloat during change out. strings are a mature science. the only thing that will come about is the advent of better materials, again, intrinsic material properties is everything. maybe they'll be able to build the string the same way they do those intel materials, molecule by molecule, from the ground up. it is conceivable that a metal ceramic core integrated with an outer polymer porcelain elastic sheathe could work, in conjunction with ceramic frets, thereby eliminating wear and indentations altogether.

[hewo]

1. no, in a class A scheme, the rich even ordered harmonics are existing.
2. it is the class AB scheme to which you refer to of odd ordered harmonics.
3. isn't this correct?
4. because of the wastage of power consumption, and tube expenditure, class A schemes are undesired by users.
5. however, their performance is spectacular. coupled with the right choice of marginally under rated paper speakers, the results are so very addictive. there are things inside of the sound that makes you really wonder whether the strings and guitar actually made them. it's like you said, "...try playing the guitar naked and listen to what your strings sound like...". well maybe these sounds are actually there, intrinsic, from the strings and guitar, just that our ears can't distinguish them until the class A scheme enunciates it? what's your take on this?

[Steve Conner]

Sorry hewo, I'm not quite getting your drift! I'll maybe smoke some more of that "diesel" and try again later But yes, the strings are being brutalized with passionate excitement, it's called rock and roll.

Axpro: I think I know what you mean about the PRS hardtail bridge. I believe it's the long grooves that the strings rest in to blame. The grooves are kinder on the strings than the small pointy saddles on a Gibson Tune-O-Matic, but I think they somehow deaden some frequencies in the upper midrange, because they stop the little bit of string BEHIND the saddle from vibrating. (Hewo: got an opinion on this? Boundary conditions?)

My McCarty will barely sound some artificial harmonics that come out strongly my other guitar (an American Standard reissue Strat) They just go plunk.

It's still a keeper for me, because I have big hands and love the fat neck on it. The guitar I always really wanted was an ES-335, but I hate playing them because the fingerboard is just too narrow at the nut. The McCarty has a neck like a cricket bat.

Anyway I'm on a mission to obtain and fit an Alnico 2 Pro bridge pickup, thanks for the tip guys I'll record "before and after" sound clips if anyone is interested.