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Thread: Behringer DDX3216 - Trying to repair, please help!

  1. #36
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    I have a problem with the DDX 3216 is not working any moving fader.


    The DDX3216 works in full, stores all the parameters are edited, but does not move the faders and the sound is perfect


    When I move the faders manually, the display includes the movement. The memories that I edit, making the actual fader position when stored, but do recall, the display changes to show the position they have at the moment

    I've checked visually power supply and shows no swelling or burst capacitor

    Tensions are correct as indicated on the circuit board silkscreen

    Checking circuit motor control board, I noticed the three IC12, IC15 and IC13 heated in excess, can not have much time because it burns your finger on. These are 74HC595 IC

    If you experience with this fault I appreciate your help

    Dispose of schematics diagram of the DDX 3216. It also has the technical means for any test.

    P.D. excuse my bad English, I'm from Spain

    Best regards

  2. #37
    Junior Member fznuk's Avatar
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    Some great tips on here! - Im waiting until i build the dummy load but may also test the Ceramic Caps as said above. I think, in the end is to monitor all voltages under load since we do know that the IC's on the main boards dont like unstable voltages but would be great if someone could post up what would be acceptable voltages we can have from a fully working PSU?!

    Its a real shame Behringer didnt come up with a better PSU or a 'fix' as this desk is still one of the best budget digital mixers out there

    I personally dont really need a mixer anymore now i use a Safire Pro40 1U soundcard connected to a Behringer ADA8000 8 channel expander.......and now the studio is quiet once again! lol - But i still would like to fix my mates DDX since even though he has the same setup as me, he would like it for his drums.

    If i actually get to build the dummy load and succeed in fixing the PSU I will post my finding but please also keep up your own findings and fixes.... Photo's also please!

    Cheers again guys!


  3. #38
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    Finally I managed to solve the fault

    It was the ICs 15, 12 and 13 (74HC595), and several MOS FET transistors NDS7002 used to enable / disable the signal passing the ICs LM324 that activate the motor

    With the help of schematics diagram of the multimeter and a good dose of patience I have located these defective components.

    I gather that this failure was caused by instability in the power supply, as both ICs and MOS FET transistors, were in shortcut

  4. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fznuk View Post
    Thank you so much guys! and from a thread i read on here regarding this mixer, it was you guys i was hoping would reply

    You are right in not throwing random components at it which is why i only replaced output filter caps which i read from a thread on another forum, but with this not making any difference, together with pulling and replacing connectors, i decided to ask on here since your other replies on posts sounded like you guys knew this unit well.

    Im pretty competent with understanding electronics and with a bit of a brush up on circuits like switch mode power supplies im sure i can get my head around it but my main job is PC diagnostics so i don't come across too many component level repairs these days.

    I have a purpose built electronics workshop but my test gear is limited to an old Scope and multimeter.....then usual tool...and soldering iron. But the desk is pretty big so decided to open and fix on the kitchen table!



    I originally noted down all the caps on the PSU - i also noticed that its built up from three PSU's with various voltages. I was going to get all the caps but decided to try the output ones first, i will see if i have a spare 47uF to try!

    You also mention the crystals - are these Q1 & Q2 on the processor board?

    Thanks again for your help!

    I will keep you all up to date on if i fix it or not
    Hi fznuk,

    A bit off your topic but I need to replace the fan on a DDX3216 but would like to buy it before I go and fetch it from the client. Could I ask if you can give me the specs (size/voltage) of the cooling fan?

    H

  5. #40
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    As far as I know the fan is 12 Vdc.
    0.12 A
    80 mm square.
    Like on a PC power supply.

  6. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    As far as I know the fan is 12 Vdc.
    0.12 A
    80 mm square.
    Like on a PC power supply.
    Thanks

  7. #42
    Junior Member fznuk's Avatar
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    Behringer Fan

    er... No the Fan isnt 80mm, its tiny (as shown in my pick of the bottom half of the case...right hand side, half way up and near the back) - and i dont think its 12V, i think it may be 5V.....but will have to have a look once I get the desk out again.

  8. #43
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    Smile Big problem with my ddx3216

    I have a behringer ddx3216 i was using it fine, i just powered it off and came back to power it on and it froze, it just stays on the initial screen where it says "ddx3216" i tried pressing ch1-16 and setup and nothing, i tried turning it on and off several times and nothin, it just stays on the initial screen, what possibly could it be?

  9. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzosaxman View Post
    I have uploaded the complete schematics for the DDX3216 (including the PSU) as a zip file onto the following url for anyone to download if they wish
    Awesome, thank you so much!

    Well, I'm having a bit of trouble with my 3216 as well. After a bit of running, all input channels start showing some intermittent signal. The meter bars go up to -36, and if I turn the volume way up, it sounds like a "fp".
    After a bit of looking at the ANAIN schematic I'd think that one of the 17V lines is at fault. (My reasoning being: since the signal LEDs in the preamp section light up as well, and the only common power source to all channels are the 17V rails and VCC/VDD, but no digital component flukes out, so VCC/VDD should be OK.)

    So I should probably be looking at the power supply, right? My google-fu seems to be weak, I've only found one other reference of this problem, and their PSU broke down shortly afterwards... Any of you repairpeople heard something similar?

  10. #45
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    Yes, Great tips here indeed !!!
    Last edited by zeubest; 11-09-2011 at 08:20 AM.

  11. #46
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    For anyone who is interested, please see the following Ebay item number 280834224471

    The auction includes desk (faulty), recapped PSU, full schematics and opamp modification components

  12. #47
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzosaxman View Post
    For anyone who is interested, please see the following Ebay item number 280834224471

    The auction includes desk (faulty), recapped PSU, full schematics and opamp modification components
    Listing removed as of 02/26/12
    What where you getting at?

  13. #48
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    The ebay listing 280834224471 hasn't actually gone live yet. It goes live tonight at 9:00.

    I am selling my desk and mod components and recapped PSU, full schematics and TDIF I/O board due to a lack of time to fix it / mod it. If anyone is interested, have a look, but only after 9:10 pm (26/02/12).

  14. #49
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    Hello,
    I am another user that got the DDX3216 into repair.
    First I've only got the SPS power supply and fixed it, tested with dummy load and checked every rail for any abnormal behaviour with an oscilloscope. Then the client took the supply and a week later reported the mixer doesn't work anymore(black lines on the LCD, all LEDs on etc.).
    Now I have the whole DDX3216 on my desk dissasembled, on the CPU board I removed L4 and L3 to measure the 3.3V digital supply rail of AMD ELAN SC300 and it has only 20ohm resistance to groud. By that I assume the CPU is faulty?

  15. #50
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    thanks to all, especially for the shematics.
    This to be not the newest discussion, but is definitely one of the most interesting about the DDX.

    Ive got one faulty unit on my desk, which is gonna die in steps as it seems.

    First I had the problem, that data isnt stored in the flash anymore; I have to look for it
    Last week, it stopped making any sound, and I did several testings til now.

    The analog part seem to be ok; signal presence LEDs are lit, but theres no signal on the channel led-bars.
    Ive checked the PSU for voltage and ripples; ok, somewhere around +-5%, ripple below 50mV
    Ive checked the crystals, as John stated; look good.

    If Id unplugged the anaout board, the inputs return to work (and the adat board also does) -> must be fault on the anaout board.
    I checked the clock signals (blck_io, lrclk_io), and two of them are badly down; at about 1Vss, with the anaout connected, about 4-5Vss disconnected -> shortcut on anaout ?
    The mclk256_io seems to be ok.
    I just checked the resistance, (power disonnected) and all three clock signals paths are at their 470Ohms -> ???

    Has anyone ever recogniced a failure with the DA converters for SPDIF (IC13 / IC14 on the anaout board)? This are the only ICs, connected directly to the clock signals; all others are connected over 100ohm.

    Back to the first fault; has someone got experiences with this flashprom trouble ?
    Could just be the prom itself, but do those things just quit their being ??

    Any hints are welcome; thanks in advance.
    I dont want to throw to much parts in while searching the fault.

    kind regards

  16. #51
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    John I believe you might possess a large portion of mankinds cumulative knowledge re:the ddx3216
    please once again what treatment might be applied to psu ??? any components that traditionally need replacement there??
    also read with great interest the info re:crystal Q3
    have one console that is now failing to retain memory patches
    and another that will show no clock found message and or at its on choosing all leds ramp up to full
    and we lock up and no audio passes
    I love these boards bang for the buck but fear they could be approaching their end days
    any advice would be hugely , enormously appreciated
    Thanks
    Bill Culver

  17. #52
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    Got ist back to live

    Hi all,

    Ive got the beast back to live

    As I assumed, IC13, the SPDIF-In chip shortened the clock. The most expensive chip on that board, I think.

    The "not saving" problem is also solved; found a complete CPU board on ebay, but Ill recheck the EEProms: they must be faulty.

    @Bill


    Quote Originally Posted by BCulver View Post
    please once again what treatment might be applied to psu ??? any components that traditionally need replacement there??
    maybe, you should take a look to Mixer is dying. Time for a mod.
    Someone did a complete recap of the PSU, and documented fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCulver View Post
    have one console that is now failing to retain memory patches
    Maybe, you should check the EEProms, marked CPU15 / CPU16 on the CPU board; patches are stored there; if they are

    Quote Originally Posted by BCulver View Post
    and another that will show no clock found message and or at its on choosing all leds ramp up to full
    and we lock up and no audio passes
    The (digital)audio related clock signals are generated on the IOCONN01-Board, and distributed to the audio i/o boards, the modules, dsp-board and cpu board.
    If you have checked all power rails to be good, you could check the audio syncs.
    Switch off your desk, disconnect the flatcable to the anaout board, and power on your desk.
    Check one audio in channel (signal, or phantompower on/off)
    -> works ? anaoutboard defect
    -> dont ? check your modules, if there are any
    I think, this check doesnt work for the anain board, because if this board is disconnected, the console locks in power up (display DDX3216)
    Your audio clock signals have got nothing to do with Q3. This one is responsible for the main cpu, controlling memory, user interface aso.


    starting my long run tests now

    Jens

  18. #53
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    Thanks to all
    very useful info
    will attempt recap on psu as all DDX 3216's are old enuff to benefit
    also liked the Op amp upgrade
    really like the functionality of these boards it's gotta have at least
    another 100k miles left on it

  19. #54
    Han
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    Hello,
    Here's another DDX3216 with big problems. When turning on the display is black, a lot of the leds are lit and thats all.
    The psu seems te be ok but i dont see a signal on Q3 of the cpu (measure on scoop with a probe 10:1).
    Replacing a new xtal 32.768 has no effect. The dc level of pin 201 and 202 are 0 volt, i don't see an puls when powering up so the oscillator cant start but why??? I began to think the am386 is dead, are there any measurements to determine this.
    In my test i disconnected all boards except cpu board has power, the 4 mHz xtal is running but again the 32.768 not.
    Please give me some hints,
    thanks.
    Han

  20. #55
    Han
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    Hello again,
    I have concluded that i have to replace the am386sc300 on the cpu board so i ask to the forum has anyone did this before.
    All info is welcome.

  21. #56
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    That IC is a BGA (Ball Grid Array)
    The solder balls on the underside of the package hold it to the board.
    Your options for removing the Ic are:
    -Hot Air
    -Hot Plate
    -Infrared

  22. #57
    Han
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    That IC is a BGA (Ball Grid Array)
    The solder balls on the underside of the package hold it to the board.
    Your options for removing the Ic are:
    -Hot Air
    -Hot Plate
    -Infrared
    Thanks for the tip.
    I have also looked at Soldering a QFP and going to practice on an old motherboard.
    Also this is usefull http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules/Fre...ng%20Guide.pdf
    And of course i need a new chip so where can i get one (farnell doesn't have it)?

  23. #58
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Here is a Motorola take on reworking a BGA ic.
    The good news is you can heat the whole BGA package, as you will not be reusing it.
    Getting the pcb pads cleaned up & flat will be the task.
    A solder sucker & solder wick should help.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  24. #59
    Han
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    Here is a Motorola take on reworking a BGA ic.
    The good news is you can heat the whole BGA package, as you will not be reusing it.
    Getting the pcb pads cleaned up & flat will be the task.
    A solder sucker & solder wick should help.
    Thank for the info but the chip has an FQFP shape and not BGA (so i'm lucky ??).
    Anyway now i'm looking for the processor and i don't think i can reuse an old one from a pc motherboard.
    I've looked at de desoldering methode, the one with wick and a wrap wire i'm going to practice.
    Keep you informed...

  25. #60
    Han
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    Hello again.
    It was very hard to do but i've made it! The processor on the cpu board is removed and the pcb is still in a good state.
    See attached picture.
    I've been looking around the net to get a new one but i can get it only in china.
    16 dollar for 1 #, I ordered 2# to be sure and the shipping costs were more than the ic costs.
    In a few days you'll see the results.
    cpu.jpg

  26. #61
    Noodle of Reality Steve Conner's Avatar
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    Well done! That was a serious desoldering job.

    To remove a dead QFP, I prefer to cut all of the legs off using a Dremel with the cutoff wheel attachment. Then it's really easy to remove the severed legs from the PCB pads. Anyone reading this with proper SMT rework equipment, please don't hit me!
    "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

  27. #62
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Wow!
    Nice job.
    My worst encounter with flatpacks was a Panasonic preburned microcontroller.
    40 x 100.
    The first one that they sent me was blank.
    That is correct, never burned.
    There was a small initial marked on the box, on the ones that were burned.
    The first one was a bare white box.
    Panasonic was pretty cool about it, after I convinced them it was indeed blank.

  28. #63
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    DDX3216 PSU Schematics

    Does ANYBODY still have schematics for this beast? I've tried downloading from the sites already published on this thread, but apparently the files are no longer available. I would really really appreciate it if somebody could either send me a copy or point me in the right direction where I could find them

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Andre.

  29. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxtech View Post
    Does ANYBODY still have schematics for this beast? .
    Take a look to

    Download DDX3216.zip from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

    good luck

  30. #65
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    Thanks to everybody who sent me schematics!

    So now I got the power supply working... the desk lights up like a Christmas tree when I switch it on! The supply lines seem pretty stable on a 'scope, so I assume that a CPU is not switching on properly?
    I have not seen a solution for the "many random lights on at power-up" problem on this thread (or maybe I missed it), but is there a quick & easy fix for this before I plunge into diagnostics again?

    Cheers,
    A

  31. #66
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    Before you go on testing, you should check if all cabling is done in the correct connectors !!
    I read of some guys, who made mistakes while replugging, and got additional faults due to higher voltages on wrong boards.

    If youve cheched to be correct, take a look to the 31.x kHz crystal. This one is the main clock of the cpu. Somewere in the beginning of this thread, John stated, this is one of the major fault reasons in their database.
    The CPU is responsable for the user interface, so there could be a fault.

    Iv seen this behavior only once on my console, during a live show :-((
    Power recycle solved the prob. This could be a hint to some trouble in the power supply, but Im not shure.


    Han told about a similar prob, and he changed the cpu, but there is not result yet.

    Jens

    ... think, I have to speed up my translation engine

  32. #67
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    Hello,

    I've also a problem with my DDX3216. I've determined that two of the 4 Flash (4MB) IC's are not working anymore. When changing from a working DDX3216 it's working again. My question is : who can provide for IC15, and IC18 a HEX file or equivalent for reprogramming a new am26F040 Flash memory?

    Thanks in advance,
    Marcellino

  33. #68
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    test

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    Hi all, I also have a DDX3216 with what may be a familiar problem. When powered on, the display initially comes up with the splash screen, but after the 14 seconds or so, when the display changes to "channels 1 to 16" the two rows of squares appear, but no sliders underneath. Also, when the power is first applied, the faders don't move down, as they do on a working mixer (I have two units - one working, one with this fault).

    I've removed the power supply, built a dummy load and checked it out. There was some noise on the +-8V supply (and it was squeaking), which I traced to the SMPS chip on that section. I've replaced the chip and the +-8V is now quiet.

    However, when replacing the PSU, the fault is still there. I've checked the 32.768MHZ oscillator on the CPU board and it's oscillating fine (I replaced the crystal for good measure, as I had a spare one, but now effect).

    So, I'm presuming the problem may be with the board with the PIC on it, but here's where I could use some advice. Anyone seen this before?

    Thanks a lot

    Doug

  35. #70
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    Hi Doug,

    I think you should check the CPU board. The 4 Flash (4MB) IC's data content could be corrupt. That was the problem in my case.
    Try to find a working unit and pull out a complete working set of 5 IC's in a row: (IC15-IC19) If your unit is working again you can use these "pulled" 5 IC's as source to copy the hex data with a simple flash programmer (Ebay, China, about $30) to re-program your IC's.

    Good luck,

    Best regards,
    Marcellino


    Quote Originally Posted by soundmandoug View Post
    Hi all, I also have a DDX3216 with what may be a familiar problem. When powered on, the display initially comes up with the splash screen, but after the 14 seconds or so, when the display changes to "channels 1 to 16" the two rows of squares appear, but no sliders underneath. Also, when the power is first applied, the faders don't move down, as they do on a working mixer (I have two units - one working, one with this fault).

    I've removed the power supply, built a dummy load and checked it out. There was some noise on the +-8V supply (and it was squeaking), which I traced to the SMPS chip on that section. I've replaced the chip and the +-8V is now quiet.

    However, when replacing the PSU, the fault is still there. I've checked the 32.768MHZ oscillator on the CPU board and it's oscillating fine (I replaced the crystal for good measure, as I had a spare one, but now effect).

    So, I'm presuming the problem may be with the board with the PIC on it, but here's where I could use some advice. Anyone seen this before?

    Thanks a lot

    Doug
    Jazz P Bass likes this.

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