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Thread: Behringer DDX3216 - Trying to repair, please help!

  1. #71
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    Thank you so much Marcellino, as you've shown me where to look. I tested the Vcc on the memory chips and at first thought that they were down at 1.6V, but I must have been misreading something because I've checked again later and they're up at 5V, so all seems well with their power supply. I'll see if I can remove the working ones and check - although I REALLY don't want to break my working mixer!!

    Doug
    Last edited by soundmandoug; 08-19-2012 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #72
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    Latest - I swapped the upper sections of the mixers over and put the upper section of the non-working mixer onto the bottom section of the working one - and it worked! So, as Marcellino suggests, the fault certainly lies in the bottom section. Next I'll swap the CPU boards over, but just before I do, is there any risk to any of the working components when I put the non-working CPU board in (or put the working CPU board in the non-working mixer)?

    Doug

  3. #73
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    Hi just joined here and have lots of DDX3216 data to share and will in the near future be putting
    up all the EPPROM files for the CPU board as well as the PIC chip files (the pic 16c554 gets its data from the epproms on power up and is not retained on chip)

    Tip if you are recapping the PSU, replace all the electolytics ,yes all of them !
    I use 130deg samwa's.
    NOTE do not get the 7 pin CTRL11 and CPU01 connectors swapped,as a freind found out !!
    As already stated the 32 meg xtal is a common failure,also replace the electros with tants,
    On the cpu ,and all the smaller caps on the DSP,and the two 470uf with samwa.
    These increase the stability in all the digital circuits !(behringer cost cutting)
    I have almost compiled a fault test log showing what is displayed on the LCD with the various
    sub boards connected, the analog IO boards do not have to be present for a good boot seq !
    I am currently modding the analog boards with better op amps and caps.
    I have a small supply of cpu chips (elan sc300) if your stuck with cpu death and
    competant at replacing,or I can repair and test the cpu/dsp boards (for a fee) for you.
    Be back soon
    Last edited by S2udio; 08-20-2012 at 05:42 PM.

  4. #74
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    Hi s2udio, thanks a lot for your reply. I'm also very new to this forum (just the last week) as I've just jumped into digital mixing after 30 years playing with analog. This is such a brilliant desk and well worth the patience fixing broken ones. I'm about to try swapping the memory chips between my working (nice new shiny, expensive!) and non-working (had a very hard life, missing a knob or two) one. I'm in fear of bending pins on the chips, as the sockets are VERY stiff and I no longer have tools such as IC removal clamps (I was an electronics engineer a very long time ago, but just dabble at home nowadays).

    Thanks for the offer of info. If I find that it's a memory chip that's gone, how do I reprogram them? I have a couple of spares coming from Hong Kong (courtesy of ebay) but I haven't found a programmer for under a few hundred quid. I play with PICs a bit and have some serial pic programmers, but I guess I won't persuade them to work with the AMD chip, right?!

    Doug

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    Hi Doug
    As you say these desks are one of behringers Good products,apart from the poor quality electros and chinese build quality,
    Though the PCB's are of industrial quality ! I luv'em
    I have a small quantity of spares as well,so if you're stuck let me know.
    I have found the epproms to be very reliable ,and not found a dead one yet,(maybe lucky) !
    Although a sickly psu with a overvolt 5v rail may cause failure.
    A reseat of all the epproms first,a small sharp blade screwdriver gently applied under each corner and lifted will do it.
    Whats the actual boot sequence before it fails ?
    Ah sorry just read your post.............
    Thats a new one ! strange i think the cpu boot prom checks for corrupt data ?
    What happens if you try a factory reset ?
    I see you have a working board as well,swap the eeproms one at a time !! or you
    wont know which on is faulty.
    ps try the cpuos boot first, IC19

    Paul
    Last edited by S2udio; 08-20-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  6. #76
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    OK, thanks. I did try a factory reset (I presume you mean holding down 1-16 and setup whilst powering on) - still the same. IC19, is that the 28 pin DIP on the far right?

    Doug

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    Yup, 27c512

  8. #78
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    OK Guys, I owe you a beer! in fact, serveral beers, because IT WORKS!!!!!!! I replaced IC19 and no joy, so I just bit the bullet and replaced all 4 of the AM29F040Bs en bloc, and IT WORKS!!!!!! - sorry, have I already shouted that ;-))

    It's just that I'm so happy, I could run down the street naked shouting IT WORKS!!!!!

    :-)

    I have a friend who reckons he has a programmer that'll handle these chips, so I'll try replacing one at a time 'till it doesn't work again, then try re-programming. If that doesn't work, I'll wait for the new ones to arrive from Hong Kong.

    Doug (Happy)

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    Well done

    Which one was it doug, ? would be good to know then i can write it up in my faut log

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    OK People, I now have TWO WORKING MIXERS! with two sets of working EPROMS. Here's what happened:

    1. replaced all chips in non-working mixer (we'll call this mixer A) with known working chips from mixer B. Mixer A now WORKS. Also, I have the snapshots from mixer B, so snapshots are saved in the flash EPROMS.
    2. changed back the CPU code chip (IC19) - still worked.
    3. changed back first (leftmost) EPROM - still works
    4. changed back second from left EPROM - still works
    5. changed back third eprom - starts up OK but I get the message "couldn't save the file - medium is full" as it starts up. I power cycle with factory reset switches held (1-16/setup). Now error message is gone and I can store/retrieve snapshots.
    6. changed back fourth eprom - get error message again and snapshot saving seems erratic. So I power cycle again with factory reset. Then I update firmware (to the same level as currently running - 1.1). Now mixer A ALL WORKS FINE with original eproms.

    7. I put working eproms back in mixer B. Now I get same "couldn't save the file - medium is full" message on mixer B (the originally working mixer, with original chips). So I do factory reset, followed by firmware re-flash (again to same version as running - 1.1) and now I have two perfect working mixers!!

    So conclusion is that mixer A appeared to have corrupted a snapshot save at some point (probably power supply issue, knowing these units :-) and thereafter it couldn't start up as it tried to load the previous snapshot when it finished it's boot sequence and hung when it hit the corrupt snapshot record. changing one chip at a time gave it enough of a readable snapshot to come up, albiet with complaints about the snapshot condition. Resets and new microcode loads cleared the condition completely!

    ... one for the log?

    Doug (very Happy!!)

  11. #81
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    OK People, I now have TWO WORKING MIXERS! with two sets of working EPROMS. Here's what happened:

    1. replaced all chips in non-working mixer (we'll call this mixer A) with known working chips from mixer B. Mixer A now WORKS. Also, I have the snapshots from mixer B, so snapshots are saved in the flash EPROMS.
    2. changed back the CPU code chip (IC19) - still worked.
    3. changed back first (leftmost) EPROM - still works
    4. changed back second from left EPROM - still works
    5. changed back third eprom - starts up OK but I get the message "couldn't save the file - medium is full" as it starts up. I power cycle with factory reset switches held (1-16/setup). Now error message is gone and I can store/retrieve snapshots.
    6. changed back fourth eprom - get error message again and snapshot saving seems erratic. So I power cycle again with factory reset. Then I update firmware (to the same level as currently running - 1.1). Now mixer A ALL WORKS FINE with original eproms.

    7. I put working eproms back in mixer B. Now I get same "couldn't save the file - medium is full" message on mixer B (the originally working mixer, with original chips). So I do factory reset, followed by firmware re-flash (again to same version as running - 1.1) and now I have two perfect working mixers!!

    So conclusion is that mixer A appeared to have corrupted a snapshot save at some point (probably power supply issue, knowing these units :-) and thereafter it couldn't start up as it tried to load the previous snapshot when it finished it's boot sequence and hung when it hit the corrupt snapshot record. changing one chip at a time gave it enough of a readable snapshot to come up, albiet with complaints about the snapshot condition. Resets and new microcode loads cleared the condition completely!

    ... one for the log?

    Doug (very Happy!!)

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    So, now I'm in the market for a knob and two red knob surrounds for the channel parameter knobs. Anyone know where I can source these?

    Also, how does one recover the factory preset EQ and Dynamics settings? The manual talks of preset factory settings in some of the lib slots for the EQ and comp sections of the channels. But all mine have slot one as "default" and the rest as "empty". I have the factory presets for the effects lib, but that's all. Any thoughts?

    Cheers
    Doug

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    Well done doug !!
    Looks like the eeproms are not faulty then !
    I also owe you a beer,........nice work.
    Looks like a few resets and a reload of the firmware with snapshots is a fix for the corrupt eeproms then.
    Excellent piece of detective work there chap.

  14. #84
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    I have spare knobs and surrounds available .
    As for the EQ and the Dynamics presets.......they dont exist,the manual is misleading and badly worded.
    If you think about it how would you know what eq or dyn is required for an unknown source per channel?
    They are userbank presets to be saved to and only exist if you set them up.

    Regards Paul

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    Well I couldn't have done it without the support of this great place - thanks again to Marcellino for pointing me at the EPROMs to begin with. Paul, I'd like to discuss terms re the knob and surrounds. I'll send you a message with my email address, if that's OK.

    Thanks again all

    Doug

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    Thats fine Doug.
    A full recap of the PSU recommended

  17. #87
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    I did start by repairing the PSU (the +-8V section needed a new SMPS chip, as it was singing and noisy). What I did on my working mixer, and what I'll now do on this fixed one, is replace the fan with a larger one (same 40mm diameter, so it would fit the same screw holes, but 20mm deep and more powerful. I then put the old fan on top of the power supply case, over the slots at the back by the analog out board. This now has the effect of pulling air through the PSU and keeping it running cool. I now don't have the other fault symptom that the working mixer was showing, which was that when it was warm (running for an hour or so) powering off then on again would most of the time bring all the PEAK LEDs on on the analog inputs. I'm told this is a symptom of loss of the +17v line. Powering off, leaving for a few 10s of seconds, then powering off again normally cleared the fault, but clearly something was heating up in the PSU (C48 has been suggested). Since the fan mod, the fault has not re-occurred, even when left for several hours running in a hot office. So clearly the fan mod has made a big difference (for the princely sum of 6,50 for a new fan).

    Doug

  18. #88
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    Folks, another question while we're on the subject of DDX3216... Now I have two DDX3216 mixers, and I've just acquired a TDIF interface. I'd love to run the mixers together as a larger unit. I understand folks have done this with ADAT interfaces (of which I also have two, one for each mixer) but I want to keep these for ADA8000 I/O. Therefore, is it possible to use two TDIF interfaces (I'll need to acquire another one), one in each mixer, with the out of one to the in of the other?

    Then I could use the first mixer to mix 32 down to 16 channels; put the 16 channels into the second mixer, along with 16 of it's own, down to 2 (or maybe 32-8 on both desks).

    I guess I'll need external clock (as the DDX3216 can only be master for the internal TDIF interface clock) but I'm presuming I can run the word clock out from one desk into the in of the other.

    What do we think?

    Doug

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    Hi again,

    Thanks for helping me last time with the crystal problem!
    Now I have another question that you might know something about:
    I got hold on another DDX that hangs during startup.
    When I power up the mixer, the display shows DDX3216, then the software version shows up and after a while the "fader page" shows up, but the faders is missing (on the screen), only the squares above them is visible. (It's here the mixer hangs) The fades should be moved to its right position now, but nothing happens.
    Have you (or any one) any idea of what this is?

    Best regards,
    Nisse
    Last edited by Nisse; 08-31-2012 at 10:02 PM.

  20. #90
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    Read soundmandougs post no 80-81 ...........
    Do a factory reset.....Hold CH1-16 + SETUP and switch on...
    Then a reflash via RS232.
    Its a PSU problem 5V rail going low when hot .
    Needs a service.

  21. #91
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    I had this problem and it turned out to be corrupt firmware in the memory chips on the CPU card. After the CPU completes it's power-on sequence (about 14 seconds, during which the display shows the "DDX3216" splash screen) it then loads the last state stored before last power-off. If that state has been stored incorrectly (power supply fault or something) then it won't load and the cpu just hangs at that point (buttons un-responsive etc).

    I fixed it by swapping out each chip in turn with a working mixer, and doing a power-on reset (hold 1-16 and setup switches whilst powering on) after each chip insertion. This cleared the fault to the point where I could access the files menu, whereupon I could re-flash the firmware from the PCMCIA card.

    Doug

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    Yes, Sorry! I found thit eeprom thing just after I published my problem.
    I will try that.
    Talking about the PSU: I have repaired a few now, an all of them works fine now.
    Resoldered and replaced caps etc. BUT I've also put a fan on each. I think this is absolutely necessary for long time use an reliability!
    The PSU needs cooling air. Iv'e also opened up a bit in the PSU. Nothing is visible from outside.
    I run the fan on 8V to reduce the noise. (The fan is a "standard 12V PC fan")
    Here are some pictures of what I've done.
    inside_ddx.jpg

    ddx_insulation.jpg

    lid_inside.jpg

    Now I'm pushing most of the air through the PSU and out of the DDX.
    I also put some plastic tape to prevent the air just to circulate inside the DDX.
    Last edited by Nisse; 09-01-2012 at 08:22 AM.

  23. #93
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    No valid program, restart update!

    Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
    Hi Doug
    As you say these desks are one of behringers Good products,apart from the poor quality electros and chinese build quality,
    Though the PCB's are of industrial quality ! I luv'em
    I have a small quantity of spares as well,so if you're stuck let me know.
    I have found the epproms to be very reliable ,and not found a dead one yet,(maybe lucky) !
    Although a sickly psu with a overvolt 5v rail may cause failure.
    A reseat of all the epproms first,a small sharp blade screwdriver gently applied under each corner and lifted will do it.
    Whats the actual boot sequence before it fails ?
    Ah sorry just read your post.............
    Thats a new one ! strange i think the cpu boot prom checks for corrupt data ?
    What happens if you try a factory reset ?
    I see you have a working board as well,swap the eeproms one at a time !! or you
    wont know which on is faulty.
    ps try the cpuos boot first, IC19

    Paul
    Hi,
    Thanks for the information!
    I tried to swap the flash memory (IC 16) from a mixer that hangs at startup (We call it A) to a working mixer (B).
    Then I tried to update the firmware, but at the end, the mixer was hanging!
    Then I had to power down/up the mixer, and after that the mixer says "No valid program, restart update!"
    Well, now I was afraid that I had two broken mixers, BUT fortunately, when I put IC 16 from mixer B into mixer A, mixer A seems to work fine!
    The conclusion is that it was IC 16 that failed.
    Now, how can I reprogram the firmware in the broken mixer?
    In what chip(s) are the firmware located? I could then copy the eeprom/flash from one mixer to the other.
    I think I have access to an eprom-programmer at work, but is there an easier way?

    Regards,
    Nisse

  24. #94
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    Have you done a factory reset before updating ?

    I doubt that eprom is faulty.....but there could be a first time !

    BTW tapeing up those airholes is a bad idear IMHO ,you will just exasperate the problem ,which is caused by the psu voltages going low (5V,3.3V,8v rail out of adjustment)
    Causing corruption of data when locking up !,and overheating of the PSU
    I have 2 off these running perfectly with no drastic fan mods,just a higher rpm better quality standard size fan ! and correctly adjusted voltages set at full load.
    See the psu load circuit diagram,its there for a reason !
    The voltages can be adjusted by the presets in each induvidual section.
    If is done quite a high mileage in its life then a recap is a must for these psus with high quality Low ESR caps.

    Cheers

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
    Have you done a factory reset before updating ?

    I doubt that eprom is faulty.....but there could be a first time !

    BTW tapeing up those airholes is a bad idear IMHO ,you will just exasperate the problem ,which is caused by the psu voltages going low (5V,3.3V,8v rail out of adjustment)
    Causing corruption of data when locking up !,and overheating of the PSU
    I have 2 off these running perfectly with no drastic fan mods,just a higher rpm better quality standard size fan ! and correctly adjusted voltages set at full load.
    See the psu load circuit diagram,its there for a reason !
    The voltages can be adjusted by the presets in each induvidual section.
    If is done quite a high mileage in its life then a recap is a must for these psus with high quality Low ESR caps.

    Cheers

    Paul
    Hi,
    Yes, I did the factory reset, but I still got the "couldn't save the file - medium is full" error. That's why I tried to update the firmware. I've done it before with success.
    Well, when it comes to the PSU, I would agree if I didn't have had the extra fan. The tape helps the air to come out insted of just circulate inside the mixer. That's why I opened up the PSU at the edges. There is a HUGE difference in the temerature in the whole PSU and the whole mixer whith this mod.
    Now there is an air flow through the PSU an out. Before, it hardly existed. In my opinion, only the original-fan is not enough.
    Anyway, back to the flash. Is it possible to make a firmware upgrade without manually remove the IC's and program them with a eprom programmer etc?
    It think it has to, because the 27c512 is a PROM, an that is not possible to erase. So the firmware must be in IC15 to IC18. Usually there is a boot-loader in "upgradable" equipments that you can't change from outside.
    I only found this (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...w/k4AxITunz2QJ), but there's no answer.
    Do you know about the DDXupdate?
    My plan is to try to program these flash ICs once again to be shure.

    Kind regards,
    Nisse

  26. #96
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    Hi again, as for EPROMs, I have 3 new chips which I had shipped from China when I was working on my problem (when I thought it was an actual dead chip). I have access to a programmer for these chips, so if you or anyone else has a faulty or corrupt chip, I can program a new one with the image in that location and send to you, for a consideration.

    As for airflow, I completely agree that the source of just about all the issues on this mixer is lack of airflow in the PSU. This is what cooks the caps and requires a re-cap on older units (as stated by Paul). One has to be careful with airflow, so as not to disturb airflow in the rest of the mixer (across the analog boards, CPU boards etc). So, on both my mixers I replaced the stock fan with a larger one of the same diameter (but 20mm depth) which has a much greater air volume (3x) but keeps the same flow over the mixer. I put the old fan on top of the power supply, up against the analog output board, kind of the same place as yours, but because it's much smaller, I didn't need to cut any holes; just sat it over the grille and fixed it with double-sided adhesive pads. This meant I could do the mod on my new mixer without even taking the top off - all the connector glue is still in place!! The new fan simply taps into the same cable as the original. The fan assembly can be removed with the lid just tilted up; the mod added and the whole lot replaced without disturbing any other connectors.

    In this way, a smaller amount of air is drawn up through the supply than is being pulled out of the right hand side by the new fan, so airflow across the rest of the mixer is maintained. The PSU fan is simply assisting the natural convection so is additive, not working against anything.

    As soon as I installed this simple, minimally intrusive mod, I noticed a distinct improvement. On my new mixer, even though it's had a very easy life and low usage, when warm (running for an hour or more), if powered off then on again, all the peak LEDs would come on, indicating loss of the 17V line. This is due to the fast-start circuitry on the PSU failing through overheating. After installing the fan mod, this has never happened again, even after leaving the desk running overnight.

    So, I would definitely sanction adding forced air cooling through the PSU, but being careful to maintain correct airflow across the rest of the mixer.

    Doug

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    Rom images

    Hi again,
    Does anyone have the binary images for the EEPROMs? (IC15-IC18)
    The strange thing is that when I reprogram IC15-IC18 with an EPROM programmer, the mixer (the one which worked) is now hanging at startup, but not the "faulty" mixer.
    The problem is probably because the rom-images for rom 15, 17, 18 is taken from the faulty one, and they where probably not 100%.
    Anyway, If anybody has the rom images, I would be grateful to have them.

    /Nisse

  28. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
    Hi again,
    Does anyone have the binary images for the EEPROMs? (IC15-IC18)
    The strange thing is that when I reprogram IC15-IC18 with an EPROM programmer, the mixer (the one which worked) is now hanging at startup, but not the "faulty" mixer.
    The problem is probably because the rom-images for rom 15, 17, 18 is taken from the faulty one, and they where probably not 100%.
    Anyway, If anybody has the rom images, I would be grateful to have them.

    /Nisse
    Hello fellows!
    Forget about my previous post, cause today I'm in a good mood!
    I've finaly got the DDXUpdate V1.11 software, and "that was the shit"
    So NOW IS MY MIXER WORKING AGAIN!!
    No need to remove roms, and burn etc.
    Just some info:
    First I tried to update the mixed from my "better" computer with dual core CPU but this failed all the time. I got communication error after a while. Then I tried with an external USB-RS232-COM-port, but that didn't work either.
    Then I tried with an older single-core-CPU computer (Both with Win-XP), and that worked fine!
    Don't know why...
    Well, the older computer runs "TinyXP", that has a lot of stuff disabled. That could make sense!
    Then I had to do the "factory reset" cause most of the leds was lighting up.
    Now was the mixer working fine again!
    Then I had to update the mixer with the "latest" software (V112), because the DDXUpdate installed an older version. It seemed to be built-in in the DDXUpdate-program.

    Regards,
    Nisse
    Last edited by Nisse; 09-05-2012 at 07:55 PM.

  29. #99
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    Further to my previous post regarding improving airflow through the PSU of the DDX3216, here are some pics of the mod I did on both my mixers:
    2012-09-03-11.22.34.jpg2012-09-03-11.22.24.jpg
    gassanov and behring like this.

  30. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundmandoug View Post
    Further to my previous post regarding improving airflow through the PSU of the DDX3216, here are some pics of the mod I did on both my mixers:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	19937Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi,
    So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
    By the way, I think you have to clean your PSU-fan a bit!

    Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
    V109.bex = Latest firmware
    V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)

    Do I need to install them both?
    How can I see the installed version(s)

    Ps.
    If anyone needs the DDXUpdate, I can share it for you.

    /Nisse
    Last edited by Nisse; 09-07-2012 at 08:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
    Hi,
    So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
    Hmm.............. You remove it,and take the lid of,then remove the board,.?

    Warning ...if you are not experinced in repairing SMPSU's....leave it alone or find someone who is,....They are lethal in the wrong hands ,get something wrong and you will kill
    A section at the flick of the mains switch. !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post

    Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
    V109.bex = Latest firmware
    V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)
    Just install 1.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
    Do I need to install them both?
    How can I see the installed version(s)
    Its not possible to "install both", 1.12 is just an update for surround ,so not nessesary but usefull.

    I have quite a few Snapshot/ configs I use , so mine gets backed up at least once a month

    The default factory reset defaults the com port to MIDI communication,....you need to set it to "RS232" manualy, in FILES/EXCHANGE.(VIA)

    Here you will see the file version......!
    Last edited by S2udio; 09-08-2012 at 07:33 PM.

  32. #102
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6
    I got this problem " memory test error please contact your local dealer "
    What. Already did is: changes some capasitor on the psu unit and also replace all the psu with my other working ddx but the error message stil apears. Please hel and sorry for my bad english, thx in advance

  33. #103
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    19
    Hi,
    It sounds like you have some problems with your memory chips on the main board.
    Have you verifyed that all pins on the memory chips are properly soldered to the main board?
    You might need a good magnifying glass to see it.

    /Nisse
    gassanov likes this.

  34. #104
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    3
    Hi

    This thread is really great, trying to work my way though an issue with my DDX.

    Started to get so random "hiss" noise from main outputs about to gigs ago, thought it was the main PA was noisy. On the last gig the whole analogue audio level drop to about a tenth of normal output then jumped back up to normal level at random times and had to swap out the console. It did so when up to normal operating temps and passing a normal audio stream. VU meters did not show the drop just. I suspect somewhere in the DA stream or board or in the Op Amps on the output. Maybe the normal dry joint. Am reasonably competent technically and have normal diagnostic gear, but need some assistance from those that have dealt with these mixers, to provide some level of guidance of where to start.

    I love this mixer due to its size and capability for small jobs. If any one would like to chime in it would be most appreciated.

    Termac

  35. #105
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6
    Yes...i already re soldering all the memory chip...i foget the ic label but it looks like a chip on the computer ram. But the problem still there. I guest i have to changes the memory chip righ?

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