YEAH!!! Got the bastard!

[redelephant]

I know this is far off topic, but since you nerds sit in solder-smoke all day and night and probably miss all of what's going on outside...
Congrats to US in the killing of shitbag Bin Laden

Cheers!

[mooreamps]

I don't think there is anyone here who's going to complain about that...

-g

[J M Fahey]

Congratulations.
Now you can go back home and stop wasting Trillions of U$ in Afghanistan and Iraq.

So far:

Cost of War in Afghanistan
$399,271,846,335

Cost of War in Iraq
$787,297,773,341

The updated counter is in:
Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

[jmaf]

It was one of the longest running TV series ever. Glad I don't have to watch that crap on the news anymore.

PS. Why is this in Theory & Design? Tiny Terror?

[J M Fahey]

PS. Why is this in Theory & Design? Tiny Terror?

KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Very funny

[Jazz P Bass]

I am not a bleeding heart liberal, but it is kind of sad when it is cheered that a man was murdered.
I understand Osama was an SOB who was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent lives.
But still....

[jrfrond]

I am not a bleeding heart liberal, but it is kind of sad when it is cheered that a man was murdered.
I understand Osama was an SOB who was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of inocent lives.
But still....

True, and it's even sadder when you realize that his death is not going to change a thing in the war on terrorism. It's all political posturing and cheerleading, but terrorism is now much more widespread and complex than it was ten years ago. Therefore, the wars will still be fought.

If anyone actually feels safer now, they need to rethink what just happened. If anything, we might be more at risk.

[Chuck H]

I don't think anyone with a brain is feeling safer now he's dead. As far as cheering a murder, well... If a man attacked and killed someones wife, children or both I'm betting most would return the favor and kill him back given the opportunity. Especially if that man continued to plot against the rest of your family. I hope as a culture we feel some obligation to each other. Perhaps not the bond that one feels for a wife or child but holy shit, the guy plotted and ordered an attack on us (as a culture, for whatever bond that means) and 3000 of us died.

I for one would love to see close up photos of his cold dead body in enough detail to confirm identity and see the bloody bullet hole in his head.

[mooreamps]

I was doing military intelligence in the Gulf War ; with the US Navy... and my kudo's to SEAL Team #6 for pulling off this mission... This has been a crippling blow against the war on terror... These Arabs have few leaders and many blind followers...Bin Laden was important due to his financial resources and his own personal strength of resolve against the "heretics". Now that he is gone, much of his organization will crumble......It will also show the world it's just not a good idea to pick a fight with the most powerful military organization known in the history of this world.......

-g

[Chuck H]

First, the problem with Bin Laden wasn't that he was an Arab. The problem is that he was a jihadist Muslim. Failing to make the distinction can cause a lot of problems. Not every cab driver is a terrorist.

Second, you are correct about his financial relevance to the jihadist movement. His family didn't share his jihadist beliefs and limited his funds as a result. Still, he was a big financial contributor. We can only hope that now that the US has basically done what amounts to a "mob style hit" on Bin Laden that the Bin Laden family doesn't see fit to finance the terrorists to a greater degree.

Third, we're not showing anybody anything. If you think this will really deter terrorists, well, I guess I have nothing to say that wouldn't be rude.

I'm glad he's dead. And I'm glad the US did the killing. But that's just my emotions on the subject. My reasoning begs the question of how much good vs. bad we actually did.

P.S. Try not to profile Arabs. It's considered bad form.

[Mark Hammer]

Parts of this forum were a cesspool of hatred in the wake of the WTC tragedy, which I guess was understandable. There are still remnants of the sorts of hard feelings one might expect.

It does give one pause to reflect on what "the war on terrorism" ought to properly consist of at this point. "War" was a somewhat suitable descriptor when the focus was a dead-or-alive manhunt for specific perpetrators. But now, the effort really is one of defusing extremism around the world, rather than an all-out assault on perps.

[Mark Black]

I think some of the most pointed fallout will be related to where and under what living conditions he was eventually found & killed. Not great for USA/Pakistan relations, and a very thin line to tread for the politicians...

[Chuck H]

+1 to that. There were some clear stipulations set forth in terms of proposals AND non negotiable details to the Pakistani gov at the beginning of the Obama administration. If we're sweeping that under the rug it's just a reminder that spin is all we're ever going to get. The real story is a mystery, as usual.

[Gaz]

It's uncanny how a person's personality and intelligence comes through no matter what the topic. For example:

Chuck H:
On amps = well informed, level headed, and courteous
On politics = see above

Mooreamps:

On amps: arrogant, misinformed, and rude
On politics: see above

(In case you're wondering where the vitriol came from, it was the "These Arabs.." comment, you racist ignoramus.)

Bin Laden is dead, and the State Department issues a travel warning. The world's not any safer. Al Qaeda isn't organized hierarchically, so killing their 'leader' doesn't mean a damn thing. Symbolically sure, but in reality, no.

[Mark Hammer]

+1 to that. There were some clear stipulations set forth in terms of proposals AND non negotiable details to the Pakistani gov at the beginning of the Obama administration. If we're sweeping that under the rug it's just a reminder that spin is all we're ever going to get. The real story is a mystery, as usual.

Whether it translates into a junta (as in Myanmar/Burma, Argentina, and Chile) or not, the disconnect between the military, and the legislative side of government, is a mystery everywhere around the world. In some respects, the military operates like its own little kingdom and micro-government. A great many of the poor decisions we see governments make strike me as beingthe result of the military imposing its will and perspective, rather than simply being the agents carrying out the will of the government.

In the U.S., Gitmo remains open and viable despite White House intentions to close it. In Canada, the desire to participate more fully in NATO missions abroad, and presumably generate jobs in the aerospace sector has led to the tentative high-priced purchase of stealth jets we have no use for within our own borders (while domestic search-and-rescue goes underfunded). Works the other way, too. In Eqypt, it was the noncompliance of the military that assisted in the collapse of the Mubarak regime. Same in Tunisia. And in Pakistan, the military has this odd relationship with the Taliban and other Muslim extremists, quite apart from any desire or permission from the elected government. Sometimes you can negotiate with the government all you want, but the folks you really have to negotiate with are the military. Weird.

[redelephant]

It's uncanny how a person's personality and intelligence comes through no matter what the topic. For example:

Chuck H:
On amps = well informed, level headed, and courteous
On politics = see above

Mooreamps:

On amps: arrogant, misinformed, and rude
On politics: see above

(In case you're wondering where the vitriol came from, it was the "These Arabs.." comment, you racist ignoramus.)

Bin Laden is dead, and the State Department issues a travel warning. The world's not any safer. Al Qaeda isn't organized hierarchically, so killing their 'leader' doesn't mean a damn thing. Symbolically sure, but in reality, no.

funny

I didn't mean to start a political discussion or for anyone to spill their guts and show us where thay stand. I don't believe the happy news does much to the so called 'war on terror' and personally there have been so many mistakes bordering to criminal done by certain former leaders since the campaign started that makes me understand why bullets go both ways.

In the short run we'll probably see some increase in terrorist actions and of course they will claim they are in revenge of Bin Laden's killing even tho many were probably planned way prior. In the long run I don't think it helps much either, but it may help the West to pull out without losing face. (I suspect another reason to stay in Afganistan and befriend them, is to create a straticigal buffer to the next superpower China, and it is probably becoming more important than catching bad guys in caves, so we may not be leaving just yet).

As a final note, I have to throw in that nothing annoys me more than ignorant Westerners who don't care to know the difference between Arabs, Persians, Asians, etc. and who can't spend a second to figure out where their views are coming from. oooops..must not make debatable statements...

[Howlin' Mad Mac]

Is the world safer? Probabbly not. Should we be cheering that a man was shot in the head? Ummmm, yeah, bad idea. Does it bring anyone's loved ones back that died in the WTC/Pentagon attack or serving their country in Afghanistan or Iraq? Silly question... of course not. Do we as Republican voting, NRA card carrying Born in the Good Ol' US of A rednecks deserve to snicker about how a member of SEAL Team 6 saved all us taxpayers a lot of dough & months of bad TV programming? HELL YEAH!!! The only thing I don't get is how the media said he received a proper Muslim burial at sea. Funny but I seem to remember watching images on the nightly news of OUR soldiers corpses tied by the ankle to the bumper of some old truck & dragged thru the village square for the amusement of the town's folk... so why don't we just give them what they obviously want to see?

[jmaf]

The biggest question now is will Donald Trump demand a death certificate? I think he should.

[Howlin' Mad Mac]

These Arabs -g

Yeah, Shame on you... I think the correct term you were looking for is Camel A$$ Sniffing Towel Heads... Get it right! (Sorry, just couldn't refuse guys... call me a biggot if you must... I've been called a lot worse.)

[Mark Hammer]

You funny. Me like.

[Mark Hammer]

Um, the idea is that when "our boys" somehow get shot down or captured, that they DON'T get dragged around, but are treated with respect. You DON'T achieve that by saying "Oh YEAH!? Well suck on THIS!". That has a knack of escalating things.

As for "proper Muslim burial", I think the only "proper" thing about it was that he was buried within the customary 24hrs, and not left to rot. I doubt there was anything particularly honourable about it, just a quick wrap up in shroud and "thwoop!" into the drink.

In Judaism, one of the most important things is to remember and be remembered. And one of the most ignominious fates is to be forgotten or blotted out. I know there are those who would have preferred an ending for Bin Laden out of the new Mortal Kombat, but some of us see an efficient "Oops, you never existed or mattered" as pretty dang harsh punishment indeed. The important thing is to remember the 09/11 victims and heroes, not the perpetrators.

[Chuck H]

Should we be cheering that a man was shot in the head? Ummmm, yeah, bad idea.

He wasn't a man, he was a monster. Most sane people don't cheer because a man was shot in the head. But I do believe sane people cheer when a specific man that emminently deserves it is shot in the head.

and then...

The only thing I don't get is how the media said he received a proper Muslim burial at sea. Funny but I seem to remember watching images on the nightly news of OUR soldiers corpses tied by the ankle to the bumper of some old truck & dragged thru the village square for the amusement of the town's folk... so why don't we just give them what they obviously want to see?

Unless your being facetious I don't understand the complexity of your gray area. It's not OK to be glad that the US military shot and killed a man pivotal to an attack on the US that killed 3000 civilians... But it is OK for the US military (representing the US, not a fanatical jihadist group with no official political affiliation mind you) to disrespect another nations predominant religion by dragging dead Bin Laden behind a truck? Just checking.

Oh, still happy he was shot in the head. In fact, I hope it wasn't a clean shot and it hurt like hell.

[jmaf]

Last time I heard dying by gun shot during a war is a soldier's death. Bin Laden got a soldier's death and a decent burial, more than he could bargain for.

I despise violence and think war is horror, but from the moment you walk into your neighbor's house and throw shit everywhere, you are subject to that neighbor walking into yours and doing the same. So, if palestinians have a political cause, if Arabs have a political cause, bring it over in a civilized manner.

I guarantee you, whatever it is Bin Laden wanted to achieve, would have been much more efficient by now if he had run for politics in his country, or had become an activist during his time in Europe, or had written controversial books that made people think. From the moment he went prehistoric and decided killing folks on the streets of anywhere was ok, he became subject to anything.

[Mark Hammer]

I guarantee you, whatever it is Bin Laden wanted to achieve, would have been much more efficient by now if he had run for politics in his country, or had become an activist during his time in Europe, or had written controversial books that made people think.

That's a lesson many could stand to learn. Well said.

[cminor9]

I guarantee you, whatever it is Bin Laden wanted to achieve, would have been much more efficient by now if he had run for politics in his country, or had become an activist

Like bankrupt the US through ten years of largely pointless war (did the US learn nothing from the soviet occupation of afghanistan?) Cause widespread fear, which in turn caused the citizens of the US to allow their government to erode freedoms? Perhaps cause the deaths of more US soldiers than the number of people who were killed in the 9-11 attacks? Sounds like he was pretty successful. He became Moby Dick for the US.

Obviously he wasn't a good guy, but killing him didn't bring justice. It didn't right a wrong, and it didn't result in any restitution of wrongs. It was vengeance, which feels good at first but is ultimately vapid.

[Steve Conner]

Like bankrupt the US through ten years of largely pointless war

Well, the US did the same thing to the Soviet Union, through the brilliant idea of turning World War 3 into a money wasting contest.

[jmaf]

Like bankrupt the US through ten years of largely pointless war (did the US learn nothing from the soviet occupation of afghanistan?) Cause widespread fear, which in turn caused the citizens of the US to allow their government to erode freedoms? Perhaps cause the deaths of more US soldiers than the number of people who were killed in the 9-11 attacks? Sounds like he was pretty successful. He became Moby Dick for the US.

Obviously he wasn't a good guy, but killing him didn't bring justice. It didn't right a wrong, and it didn't result in any restitution of wrongs. It was vengeance, which feels good at first but is ultimately vapid.

Bin Laden didn't bankrupt the US through his guerilla war, like the US bankrupted the USSR through cold war....The financial crisis was a real estate one, folks borrowing money they couldn't pay and banks facilitating those loans multiplied the monster. It had nothing to do with Bin Laden IMO.

[cminor9]

Bin Laden didn't bankrupt the US through his guerilla war, like the US bankrupted the USSR through cold war....The financial crisis was a real estate one, folks borrowing money they couldn't pay and banks facilitating those loans multiplied the monster. It had nothing to do with Bin Laden IMO.

Unless you believe in the broken window fallacy, then any manhunt which has costs entering into the trillions (Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM) is not good for the economy. As for the housing crisis, well, stuff happens. But when you are fighting a war on two fronts (both of which were started due, in no small part, to 9-11) you cannot weather storms like the housing crisis.

[cminor9]

Well, the US did the same thing to the Soviet Union, through the brilliant idea of turning World War 3 into a money wasting contest.

exactly right. The US as a whole are not good students of history, especially when it comes to US history. The same people touting Reagan for his brilliant approach of bankrupting the USSR are some of the same ones pushing for escalation of these wars.

[jmaf]

Unless you believe in the broken window fallacy, then any manhunt which has costs entering into the trillions (Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM) is not good for the economy. As for the housing crisis, well, stuff happens. But when you are fighting a war on two fronts (both of which were started due, in no small part, to 9-11) you cannot weather storms like the housing crisis.

I don't understand the US economy enough to be able to say where the hole is exactly, we do know the US borrowed from China to wage the wars, we also know the real estate crisis had a big toll on unemployment. I think the whole context of the 2000's was bad for the economy and I wouldn't give Osama Bin Laden that much credit in it all. He had more of a psychological effect than practical IMO. Also, to assume the US went into Iraq because of him may be a risky assumption, I think they would have gone in anyway, whether it was Bin Laden or whether it was WMD.

[Diablo]

The biggest question now is will Donald Trump demand a death certificate? I think he should.

I heard that when they checked the DNA for the guy they shot in Pakistan, it came back as a positive match with Donald Trump.

[Chuck H]

Have you ever seen Trump and bin Laden in the same place at the same time??? Hmmm? Makes you think.

[casey73]

I think some of the most pointed fallout will be related to where and under what living conditions he was eventually found & killed. Not great for USA/Pakistan relations, and a very thin line to tread for the politicians...

Aside from the natural feeling that some kind of justice has been served and the fact that our military pulled this off without a hitch, which is something we should all be proud of, dove or hawk, I think you've pointed out the real issue here. Pakistan is not now, and never has been our friend. Hawk that I am, I'm starting to have thoughts like that of post WWI isolationists did.

The U.S. is truly in a damned if we do and damned if we don't situation. Some nations think we should be the first on board when there are natural disasters in 3d world ghettos like Haiti or when some power drunk dictator is slaughtering his own people in some other 3d world shit hole. And no matter what we do, we are the bad guys. It's never enough, never fast enough. Kinda makes you wonder, what's the point?

[jmaf]

Have you ever seen Trump and bin Laden in the same place at the same time??? Hmmm? Makes you think.

His hair clearly shows he's trying to hide something. I think this should be further investigated.

[cminor9]

3d world ghettos like Haiti

Wow. And people wonder why the world hates Americans. Sure, Haiti is poor and suffers from corrupt politicians. The US is poor too, and suffers from corrupt politicians. There are people there trying to make it just like here. Just because they live there and not here, or their skin color is different, doesn't make them unworthy of help. I see your point, and it's a valid one, but this kind of wording is why many people (rightly?) perceive the right, especially the Tea Party, as racist.

Props for speaking your mind and all, but you have to be careful when you go doing that publicly.